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Housing crisis- the elephant in the room

1356

Comments

  • #62
    ampleforth
    Registered Users Posts: 383 ✭✭ampleforth


    ClintPower wrote: »
    I'd very much approve of the dole being replaced with food vouchers for anyone below a certain age if it has become apparent that they view welfare as a career option.

    Have you ever been on the dole? Do you actually know how it feels to be in that kind of system? I assume not...but please correct me if I am wrong.


  • #63
    The Satanist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 693 ✭✭✭The Satanist


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

    Immigrants CREATE employment.


    Nigerians always have the latest fashion gear etc.

    I didn't realise we had knock-off tracksuit factories in Ireland.


  • #64
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    The Satanist wrote: »
    I didn't realise we had knock-off tracksuit factories in Ireland.


    Yeah dunnes. You never heard of it?:)


  • #65
    The Satanist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 693 ✭✭✭The Satanist


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    Yeah dunnes. You never heard of it?:)

    "Latest fashion gear"

    Get the ****


  • #66
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    The Satanist wrote: »
    "Latest fashion gear"

    Get the ****


    Where do you people LIVE??

    Honestly it's like this weird bubble.

    YES nigerians and honestly most africans spend huge amounts on fashion.


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  • #67
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,354 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    You really think you are about to become a refugee due to immigration??

    Besides you CAN FLEE to any country in EUROPE.

    Shhhh , let him rant.
    He's becoming entertaining.


  • #68
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    I dunno why we have states anyway ...i fancy being libertarian for a while.


  • #69
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    the elephant in the room is paddy is addicted to property gambling and not paying his debts and paddys govt knows theres votes in them thar property booms


  • #70
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Deleted User wrote: »
    the elephant in the room is paddy is addicted to property gambling and not paying his debts and paddys govt knows theres votes in them thar property booms


    Ah but paddy is great craic. :pac:



  • #71
    gw80
    Registered Users Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭gw80


    Wow, the self hate in this thread from some posters is saddening,


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  • #72
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    ClintPower wrote: »
    Leo said something similar. It's highly subjective.

    There's little to no Chinese welfare warriors.

    The same cant be said for East Europeans of Roma extraction.

    Plenty of Chinese work in the black economy. You think all the people in the kitchens of Chinese restaurants have pps numbers and pay their payroll taxes? Sure, they're not on the scratch, but they still use the roads, send their kids to school etc.


  • #73
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    You don't care about declining workers rights unless you can associate them with immigration.

    It's yours to use or put down as you see fit. You OWN them.

    Immigrants are somehow simultaneously stealing our jobs and our dole money.

    Migrants CREATE jobs. Their taxes subsidize hospitals, schools roads etc.

    Immigrants are consumers they support Irish business. They BUY things. They go out to the pub. They go out to dinner.

    The World Bank has estimated that increasing immigration by a margin equal to 3% of the workforce in developed countries would generate global economic gains of $356bn (€327bn).


    One of the most frequent objections to immigration is that immigrants take jobs from locals. This only makes sense if you think that an economy has a fixed number of jobs to be shared around.



    Economies don’t work like that. Economies are dynamic and immigrants enhance that dynamism.


    What REALLY drained money from our public services and held down our wages was the banking crash. AND EVERYONE KNOWS IT.

    But that does not suit some people's argument.

    And WTF don't believe me. Meh no biggie.

    I am just gonna sit back and watch you rant about immigration while i live my sweet life. :p

    But I warn you. Irish people don't GIVE A ****.

    You're quite correct that the banking crash repercussions are still being felt.

    What you haven't mentioned is that all the houses NAMA disposed of were sold to non-Irish buyers (to put it politely).
    Add to that the fact that little to no housing was built for almost a decade - and we have a serious housing shortage.

    I've said repeatedly on here that I'm in favour of taking in refugees.
    Having said that - I'm not in favour of putting said refugees on a pedestal above the Irish people. So, the next time Zappone feels an urge to "bring them all home", or Leo feels the need for praise from Mama Merkel, they need to consider that, in reality, for every refugee that is awarded housing, an Irish person is displaced - unless theres some magic tap they can turn on to produce houses out of thin air....

    I'm also in favour of limited Immigration. But I'm not about to pretend that every Immigrant family/group who rent a house doesn't leave one less house for the Irish to rent.

    The solution to the housing crises is to build more housing - but let's not pretend that even more people looking to rent doesn't affect the market.

    And that's before we begin thinking about those who abuse the system....


  • #74
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Yurt! wrote: »
    Plenty of Chinese work in the black economy. You think all the people in the kitchens of Chinese restaurants have pps numbers and pay their payroll taxes? Sure, they're not on the scratch, but they still use the roads, send their kids to school etc.

    i work with a few chinese people, they all have nixers. A huge gig is buying real (not counterfeit) luxury products here and flogging them on the sly at a huge profit in china where there are massive import duties on luxury goods.


  • #75
    gordongekko
    Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭gordongekko


    MrFresh wrote: »
    It's about time somebody brought up immigration. It's never talked about.

    Fair point. We need more immigration as there is a shortage of skilled construction workers to build the houses the entitlement society demand for free


  • #76
    newport2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,579 ✭✭✭newport2


    InTheShadows wrote: »
    No politician will touch it with a barge poll in fear of the liberals and lefties attacking them. They would be destroyed by state media RTE and special interest media like Newstalk within days. These people have pundits at the ready to turn anyone who does question it into fully paid up members of the KKK.

    FG want to increase the population by a million within a few short years where do people think these lads and lassies will be coming from flipping Harvard?

    The UK politicians had the courage to bring up immigration and put it to the people in a referendum 3 years ago. It's going great I hear.


  • #77
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,356 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Yurt! wrote: »
    Plenty of Chinese work in the black economy. You think all the people in the kitchens of Chinese restaurants have pps numbers and pay their payroll taxes? Sure, they're not on the scratch, but they still use the roads, send their kids to school etc.

    How do they send their chidlren to school without a pps number? or how do they use medical services without a pps number?


  • #78
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    said it before, immigrants are not the cause of the housing crisis but they do have an impact on supply, how could they not? but what are you gonna do? have no immigrants? to paraphrase a woman on BBC Question Time, who is gonna deliver my Deliveroo?


  • #79
    Bigbagofcans
    Registered Users Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭Bigbagofcans


    mariaalice wrote: »
    How do they send their chidlren to school without a pps number? or how do they use medical services without a pps number?

    Same way Irish illegal immigrants in America are sending their children to school - they don't need a social security number.


  • #80
    gibgodsman
    Registered Users Posts: 563 ✭✭✭gibgodsman


    The thing I find funny about all of this, is an Irish man complaining about Immigration, how Ironic is that? We are literally known as a people for immigrating to other countries, yet we try complain when people do it to ours? Get over it, we have enough of our own freeloaders, the 5% or so additional from other countries ain't making a big dent.


  • #81
    The_Brood
    Closed Accounts Posts: 838 ✭✭✭The_Brood


    I am technically an immigrant. I believe building higher apartment buildings, affordable living apartments, is much more important than anything else for the housing crisis.

    However I will say I find it utterly insane beyond my wildest dreams that Ireland gives doe money to non-nationals. Healthcare is understandable, it should be a human right everywhere.

    But for masses and masses in Eastern Europe, being on the doe in Ireland is incredibly more profitable than working hard and even being middle class in some countries. They say money doesnt grow on trees...but for these folks, you come to Ireland, you don't work, and are handed way more money than you can dream about back home working. It is like a miracle, like paradise. I have no idea at all how many other countries do the same thing, but yeah I can promise you many foreigners cannot believe their fortune to be handed so much money for actually not working. Its like rubbing a magic lamp.

    The issue is who pays for all that...


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  • #82
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,356 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Bigbagofcans wrote: »
    Same way Irish illegal immigrants in America are sending their children to school - they don't need a social security number.

    You can not enrole children in a school here without a lot of rigmarole its not like the US, which also make me think they do not want to sort the illegal immigrant issue at all the cheap labor is too convenient.


  • #83
    Cordell
    Registered Users Posts: 5,757 ✭✭✭Cordell


    I am an immigrant but I fully support welfare restrictions and even deportation for the work shy EU lads. Also, I fully support discussing the issue at the mainstream media and politics level, even if I don't agree that the immigrants are the main cause of the housing crisis. But if this is brushed away and shut down as xenophobic/racist crap then it will continue in the fringe politics and media and this is how we get into troubles like brexit and trump.

    And if you and the polish lad are in a race to the bottom, then chucking him away will not solve your problem.


  • #84
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    The_Brood wrote: »
    I am technically an immigrant. I believe building higher apartment buildings, affordable living apartments, is much more important than anything else for the housing crisis.

    However I will say I find it utterly insane beyond my wildest dreams that Ireland gives doe money to non-nationals. Healthcare is understandable, it should be a human right everywhere.

    But for masses and masses in Eastern Europe, being on the doe in Ireland is incredibly more profitable than working hard and even being middle class in some countries. They say money doesnt grow on trees...but for these folks, you come to Ireland, you don't work, and are handed way more money than you can dream about back home working. It is like a miracle, like paradise. I have no idea at all how many other countries do the same thing, but yeah I can promise you many foreigners cannot believe their fortune to be handed so much money for actually not working. Its like rubbing a magic lamp.

    The issue is who pays for all that...
    Do you have any links to anything that supports this? To claim you need to have been earning.


  • #85
    Jupiter Mulligan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 525 ✭✭✭Jupiter Mulligan


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Do you have any links to anything that supports this? To claim you need to have been earning.

    Why not look up the Razneas case that I mentioned earlier?


  • #86
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Do you have any links to anything that supports this? To claim you need to have been earning.

    Do you mean jobseeker's benefit? Not the same for jobseeker's allowance. From citizen's info:

    "To get Jobseeker's Allowance you must be aged over 18 and under 66. You must also:

    Be unemployed (you must be fully unemployed or unemployed for at least 4 days out of 7)
    Be capable of work
    Be available for full-time work and genuinely seeking work
    Satisfy the means test
    Meet the habitual residence condition"


  • #87
    MrFresh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭MrFresh


    Jupiter Mulligan wrote: »
    Why not look up the Razneas case that I mentioned earlier?


    Do you mean the case where the guy has had both legs amputated and he and his family have been refused social assistance? Isn't that the opposite of the free lunch theory espoused above?


  • #88
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    The_Brood wrote: »
    But for masses and masses in Eastern Europe, being on the doe in Ireland is incredibly more profitable than working hard and even being middle class in some countries. They say money doesnt grow on trees...but for these folks, you come to Ireland, you don't work, and are handed way more money than you can dream about back home working.

    Employment rates are higher amongst Eastern European immigrants than Irish Nationals.


  • #89
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    I was expecting a thread about elephants.


  • #90
    vriesmays
    Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭vriesmays


    gibgodsman wrote: »
    The thing I find funny about all of this, is an Irish man complaining about Immigration, how Ironic is that? We are literally known as a people for immigrating to other countries,
    Exactly, look at all the Irish who moved to Nigeria during the famine or Georgia in the 1980s.


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  • #91
    belfe
    Registered Users Posts: 66 ✭✭belfe


    ClintPower wrote: »
    So cards on the table regarding a few comments here and there people have made on other threads.

    To anyone who has a maths ability beyond senior infants, a contributory factor to the shortage of affordable rental property in urban areas in Ireland is migration. It isn't the only cause, but it is the main one, yet not a single one of the politicians who do the loudest ranting about the housing crisis will touch it with a barge pole. Solidarity, PBP, Sinn Fein, they don't want to know. To admit the problem isn't to be racist to anyone- I don't hold a grudge towards anyone for coming here to improve their lot. But at a time of essentially national emergency, the crisis could be cooled nearly overnight with a few simple measures

    - temporarily suspend EU free movement. Initiate a system of work permits- migrants are admitted according to their experience/ intended work sector. People are allowed in for specified skill shortage areas like construction and IT. People are not allowed in to work in warehouses for 9.80 an hour. End result- less rental pressure and employers can no longer take the piss with rates offered.

    - pull out of any EU refugee relocation scheme that involves us providing housing out of our own taxes. A country that has people on social housing lists for 12 years that suddenly realises it can find Syrians a permanent home within 3 months of arrival is a sick society.

    - audit the welfare and social housing rolls for current residents from abroad, to weed out those who haven't put a shift in. If a previous government's incompetence resulted in you being allowed to stay, and an audit shows you've spent most of that time on welfare, home you go.


    What is so radical and unspeakable about these ideas? Why won't any mainstream political party of TD address the issue? To my knowledge a handful of SF, Labour and FG local councillors who dared raise the issue were either censured or outright kicked out of their respective parties.

    I mean, look at this. Just look (registration required)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/human-rights-challenge-issued-to-social-housing-policy-for-non-irish-f6vhfnr20?t=ie

    A gypsy family arrive in the country, work for all of 3 months, spent two years in a homeless hub at god knows how much cost to the state while fighting legal aid cases to be entitled to dole (successfully) and entitled to subsidised housing (pending)

    Or where were the pricks from Raise the Roof and Home Sweet Home when Kilkenny council was buying properties, knowing tenants would be evicted, because it decided some folks from abroad were a better class of people?

    http://www.munster-express.ie/front-page-news/ferrybank-housing-reshuffle/

    What kind of a parallel ****ing universe am I living in where all this is acceptable conduct? Where politicians are so afraid of being labelled as racist that they will stand by and have people kicked out of their homes to make way for new arrivals?

    Well, the problem would be worse if you suspend the freedom of movement and you get back the 500.000 Irish living in continental Europe and the 800.000 loving in GB Of do you want to apply it only one way?


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