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What kind of ftp/Watts per kg do I need to ride the junior tour/any big A3,A2 races?

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    #32
    dahat
    Registered Users Posts: 16,633 ✭✭✭✭dahat


    Taxuser1 wrote: »
    Looking forward to comparing this to the recent sticky bottle research trawl for dit. It might not be too far off.

    That survey will be interesting when the results are published.

    It's bodyweight that seems to be key really as pushing big power is pointless if you've got a big ass on the bike. I'd say a racing weight around 80-90kgs would give the majority lads a chance in most A3/A4 races.


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    #33
    Takca
    Registered Users Posts: 246 ✭✭Takca


    dahat wrote: »
    That survey will be interesting when the results are published.

    Is it just me or is the article on sticky bottle missing a link to the survey?
    http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/survey-irish-racing-cyclists/


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    #34
    Arthurdaly
    Registered Users Posts: 745 ✭✭✭Arthurdaly


    sullzz wrote:
    Where did you get those figures?

    DKmac wrote:
    Average FTP for A3 is 308w or 4.22 w/kg. A2 is 325w A1 is 350w

    I'd say those numbers are well overstated. 4.22 would hang with an a1 bunch on an undulating course, might not be enough in something like shay, des, laragh etc.


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    #35
    harringtonp
    Registered Users Posts: 2,563 ✭✭✭harringtonp


    sullzz wrote: »
    I'd say this is accurate enough.

    Yes there has been some good advice here but a lot of very incorrect stuff in addition to the obvious (to some anyway) piss take.

    That table posted by sullzz is pretty spot on and it you are looking for guidelines that should be it.

    And the likes of your FTP and 5 minute power do mean a lot. Without race craft etc you won't get the most out of your numbers but if you don't have the numbers in the first place you'll be out the back in higher end races no matter how good your positioning and craft is.

    Having raced A3 for years I can confirm that power figures around the middle of cat 3 in the table can sometimes get you up the road and staying away in breaks in lower end A3 races (usually the mid summer ones). The same numbers will allow you hang on to bunches in A2/3 stage races but you'd be doing very really well to get up the road for any length of time with them.


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    #36
    El CabaIIo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 354 ✭✭El CabaIIo


    I don't get the obsession with power in cycling. I run and you'll never hear a runner ask what pace does your threshold need to be at to run Novice cross country. That's something you might think about in training to provide stimulus to different energy systems to improve them or give you an idea how to pace but a race is a race, it's about getting across the line in the best position.

    Isnt the idea of all that training to go out and race? Is there some element of fear of being dropped or something? Well I've got news for anyone who thinks that way, there will always be someone faster than you, welcome to the real world! Why not just go out and challenge yourself? Worst case sceanario you get dropped and learn a few lessons from better riders than you. You dust yourself off and go again and maybe end up in the bunch and get to see how the top guys operate at the front. Things a power meter will never teach you. Getting beat and failing is a rite of passage in sport.


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    #37
    harringtonp
    Registered Users Posts: 2,563 ✭✭✭harringtonp


    El CabaIIo wrote: »
    I don't get the obsession with power in cycling. I run and you'll never hear a runner ask what pace does your threshold need to be at to run Novice cross country. That's something you might think about in training to provide stimulus to different energy systems to improve them or give you an idea how to pace but a race is a race, it's about getting across the line in the best position.

    Isnt the idea of all that training to go out and race? Is there some element of fear of being dropped or something? Well I've got news for anyone who thinks that way, there will always be someone faster than you, welcome to the real world! Why not just go out and challenge yourself?

    That does sound like a runner's or triathlete's perspective. There is no such thing as a bunch in either of these events. You often see triathlete's (and I'm not having a go at them, went from triathlon to racing myself) who are new to racing getting dropped and riding several laps on their own to finish the race. In general seasoned racers won't finish in this scenario unless it is a stage race, they don't see the point of riding laps on their own. So yes there is a huge fear of getting dropped and being on your own, nobody likes it !

    The great thing about road racing is that unlike all other endurance sports you can finish on the same time as riders who are way stronger than you... I've finished in the same bunch as Eddie Dunbar on at least one occasion.


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    #38
    Raam
    Registered Users Posts: 14,317 ✭✭✭✭Raam


    El CabaIIo wrote: »
    I don't get the obsession with power in cycling. I run and you'll never hear a runner ask what pace does your threshold need to be at to run Novice cross country. That's something you might think about in training to provide stimulus to different energy systems to improve them or give you an idea how to pace but a race is a race, it's about getting across the line in the best position.

    Isnt the idea of all that training to go out and race? Is there some element of fear of being dropped or something? Well I've got news for anyone who thinks that way, there will always be someone faster than you, welcome to the real world! Why not just go out and challenge yourself? Worst case sceanario you get dropped and learn a few lessons from better riders than you. You dust yourself off and go again and maybe end up in the bunch and get to see how the top guys operate at the front. Things a power meter will never teach you. Getting beat and failing is a rite of passage in sport.

    Training with a PM is super effective. I never pay attention to it in a race other than a TT.


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    #39
    El CabaIIo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 354 ✭✭El CabaIIo


    harringtonp wrote: »
    That does sound like a runner's or triathlete's perspective. There is no such thing as a bunch in either of these events. You often see triathlete's (and I'm not having a go at them, went from triathlon to racing myself) who are new to racing getting dropped and riding several laps on their own to finish the race. In general seasoned racers won't finish in this scenario unless it is a stage race, they don't see the point of riding laps on their own. So yes there is a huge fear of getting dropped and being on your own, nobody likes it !

    The great thing about road racing is that unlike all other endurance sports you can finish on the same time as riders who are way stronger than you... I've finished in the same bunch as Eddie Dunbar on at least one occasion.

    But we're not talking about seasoned riders who are only out for wins or points, we're talking about someone who is asking what it takes to finish in the bunch or whatever when they ask for power figures. And even if they do get dropped and do the same as the seasoned rider and pull over, what's the harm?

    I don't think you can beat competition of actual racing to drive home a point whatever sport it is. You can tell someone to aim for these numbers or that number but none of them will have what it feels like and seeing what it takes to compete at that level like a race. And the motivation that come from that will be 100 times better than what you will get from staring at a power meter on your training rides or doing power tests on your turbo in the living room until the day you hit some random number that you think it's safe to ride at to finish in the bunch.


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    #40
    harringtonp
    Registered Users Posts: 2,563 ✭✭✭harringtonp


    El CabaIIo wrote: »
    But we're not talking about seasoned riders who are only out for wins or points, we're talking about someone who is asking what it takes to finish in the bunch or whatever when they ask for power figures. And even if they do get dropped and do the same as the seasoned rider and pull over, what's the harm?

    I don't think you can beat competition of actual racing to drive home a point whatever sport it is. You can tell someone to aim for these numbers or that number but none of them will have what it feels like and seeing what it takes to compete at that level like a race. And the motivation that come from that will be 100 times better than what you will get from staring at a power meter on your training rides or doing power tests on your turbo in the living room until the day you hit some random number that you think it's safe to ride at to finish in the bunch.

    Yes, can't argue with this. You do need to race to make sense of it all and give the numbers some context. Racing is the only thing that makes the hard training bearable.


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