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Brexit consequences for Irish farmers

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    #32
    waalaa
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭waalaa


    The UK will vote to remain and I don't think it will be that close. Brexit campaigners are extremely vocal and anybody (other than the remain campaigners) planning to vote to remain might be seen as anti British so just stays quiet. It's almost exactly like the Scottish referendum polls had it neck and neck with the SNP convinced they had it won and in the end it was a pretty clear stay. 58% remain 42% leave, that's what I reckon.


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    #33
    kowtow
    Registered Users Posts: 6,135 ✭✭✭kowtow


    BoatMad wrote:
    You simply cannot state that the risks are " few" you have no idea

    BoatMad wrote:
    My view is a uk leaving the EU will have massive and huge effects on Ireland and on the Eu, it will be a seismic effect and the EU will be a lot poorer in many ways as a result. I think it will ultimately leads to its breakup too


    Of course I can state that in my reasonably informed opinion the risks are few - certainly fewer than the scaremongering irish establishment would have us believe.

    As i said above the EU accession documents give special recognition to the uk / irish arrangements but even leaving those aside politically and pragmatically I doubt that the eu would wish to frustrate future free trade arrangements between the two countries for fear of igniting the Irish electorate.

    I doubt there will be a Brexit but I agree with you that if it happens or runs close it will shake the eu institutions to the core. In my view that would be a good thing.

    There's also a small oppurtunity for Ireland - if as Mario Monti says a post Brexit eu could adopt English as a single language without seeming to prefer the UK, then there's a dividend in it for the Irish.


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    #34
    Willfarman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭Willfarman


    If the unthinkable happened and brexit happened would it be economically advantageous for us to follow suit?

    The return of the punt? What about our fishing rights?


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    #35
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    kowtow wrote: »
    Of course I can state that in my reasonably informed opinion the risks are few - certainly fewer than the scaremongering irish establishment would have us believe.

    As i said above the EU accession documents give special recognition to the uk / irish arrangements but even leaving those aside politically and pragmatically I doubt that the eu would wish to frustrate future free trade arrangements between the two countries for fear of igniting the Irish electorate.

    I doubt there will be a Brexit but I agree with you that if it happens or runs close it will shake the eu institutions to the core. In my view that would be a good thing.

    There's also a small oppurtunity for Ireland - if as Mario Monti says a post Brexit eu could adopt English as a single language without seeming to prefer the UK, then there's a dividend in it for the Irish.


    A lot will boil down to the EU attitude to the uk , will it seek to punish the uk, it's unlikely that it seek to reward it with beneficial trade access but not with the costs and responsibilities of the Union.

    As to inflaming the Irish electorate , I think we have ample evidence in Ireland and Greece , that the EU institutions don't give a monkeys for the " Irish electorate "

    This will all be driven by France's and Germany's perspective and not ours.

    We shall see if we fair any better under Franco German rule for the next 120 years compare to the 120 since 1800 under the uk !!! . I suspect the outcomes will be similar


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    #36
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    Willfarman wrote: »
    If the unthinkable happened and brexit happened would it be economically advantageous for us to follow suit?

    The return of the punt? What about our fishing rights?

    Ireland cannot and would not survive outside the Eurozone


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    #37
    kowtow
    Registered Users Posts: 6,135 ✭✭✭kowtow


    Willfarman wrote:
    If the unthinkable happened and brexit happened would it be economically advantageous for us to follow suit?

    Willfarman wrote:
    The return of the punt? What about our fishing rights?


    It wouldnt suit our political elite.

    What are they supposed to do? Fly round and round the hook all day in the Government jet?

    It would be bad news for Europe too. Without Enda there would be no one to hand out the canapés in Brussels.


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    #38
    kowtow
    Registered Users Posts: 6,135 ✭✭✭kowtow


    BoatMad wrote:
    We shall see if we fair any better under Franco German rule for the next 120 years compare to the 120 since 1800 under the uk !!! . I suspect the outcomes will be similar


    As you say, we shall see.

    Although under British rule Dublin had a lot more power than it has today.


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    #39
    Willfarman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭Willfarman


    BoatMad wrote: »
    Ireland cannot and would not survive outside the Eurozone

    Oxygen deprivation? Would we sink into the sea?


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    #40
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    Willfarman wrote: »
    Oxygen deprivation? Would we sink into the sea?

    No, silly ,
    The country would trip to the west and slide into Atlantic as all the businesses and people left the east coast and emigrated


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    #41
    catbear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear


    kowtow wrote: »
    As you say, we shall see.

    Although under British rule Dublin had a lot more power than it has today.
    Under the act of union power left Dublin entirely. That's why Dublin architecture fossilised after the Georgian era.


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    #42
    Waffletraktor
    Registered Users Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭Waffletraktor


    Taking odds on collapse of Tory Govt due to infighting over Hi - Low allignement with Eu, slim majority as is and resignations from the losing side. Labour Govt goes for soft brexit if at all. Possible re run.


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    #43
    Nekarsulm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,191 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    Interesting reading the Farmers Weekly opinion pieces/articles.
    In the run up to the vote, almost every piece published was pro-Brexit. Everyone interviewed (or at least, everyone published) was voting leave, from County Council small holders to arable farmers with thousands of acres.
    This last few weeks a very different type of article is emerging.


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    #44
    kowtow
    Registered Users Posts: 6,135 ✭✭✭kowtow


    Waffletraktor wrote:
    Taking odds on collapse of Tory Govt due to infighting over Hi - Low allignement with Eu, slim majority as is and resignations from the losing side. Labour Govt goes for soft brexit if at all. Possible re run.


    I'm convinced this morning that the Tories are in strong position for a change.

    They seem to have an equal number of rebels on each side.


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    #45
    ganmo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,748 ✭✭✭ganmo


    Waffletraktor wrote: »
    Taking odds on collapse of Tory Govt due to infighting over Hi - Low allignement with Eu, slim majority as is and resignations from the losing side. Labour Govt goes for soft brexit if at all. Possible re run.

    I'm taking odds of no deal being done
    And then a border poll in NI within 5 years


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    #46
    Willfarman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭Willfarman


    The dup got their payoff after the general election. They are just playing charades. The only deal is the logical one. A watery border around mainland Britain. And the end of free movement from ourselves and France without a show of a passport or national Id card.


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    #47
    Keepgrowing
    Registered Users Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭Keepgrowing


    https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-food-security/?fbclid=IwAR1xaExSsiFBrWq1yFQgpTMJHXjVw_LqP-y8wqrp7gwy590nY38eBUVsMJ4


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    #48
    Chisler2
    Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭Chisler2


    Willfarman wrote: »
    The dup got their payoff after the general election. They are just playing charades. The only deal is the logical one. A watery border around mainland Britain. And the end of free movement from ourselves and France without a show of a passport or national Id card.


    When you write "an end of free movement" do you mean reinstatement of the same criteria for movement of goods and people as apply to ANY sovereign state outside the EU? The stumbling-block to Brexit is NOT (emphatically NOT!) the responsibility, or created by, Ireland. The general referendum produced a "leave" majority. The UK is "leaving" the EU. Negotiations are with the 27 unified block of remaining EU members.............NOT with Ireland.



    They are leaving because they want "control of their borders". They forgot - during the referendum frenzy - that one of their borders is a land-border with the Republic of Ireland, that is, a land-border with the EU. It is crucial not to feed UK paranoia by distinguishing individual EU members (France and Ireland) as persecutors.



    Teresa May has been touring the continent trying to foment division between the 27 remaining EU countries. The Conservative Party have confidently assumed for the past 18 months that they could eventually break EU solidarity and "have their cake and eat it"......keep the benefits of membership whilst refusing to pay towards the EU project. They are playing a deadly game and their hubris is creating political and economic instability across Europe.



    It is time to recall WHY the EU was initially formed.............to provide a platform for co-operation to replace the bloody conflicts of the two great European wars. That objective is of even more importance now as America and China gear steadily towards major confrontation.


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    #49
    Chisler2
    Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭Chisler2


    BoatMad wrote: »
    (snip)
    The U.K. Will have unfettered access to huge developing foreign food supplies that were not there previously , such access will be available to the uk without the overarching restrictions of EU trade agreements. (snip)


    The UK electorate now whine they "did not have the facts" before the majority of voters chose "leave". Hopefully they have learned by that mistake to "read the label". If one of their alternative food suppliers is the USA they should prepare for hormone-laced meats, chicken washed in chlorine, processed foods full of high-fructose corn syrup and genetically-modified vegetables and fruit...........all produced under sub-human pay and conditions for employees and inhumane conditions for the hogs, fowl, and beef in massive silo-sites.



    As to other sources of food-supply..........it is unlikely the UK's former colonies (Africa and India in particular) will feel kindly disposed to give any advantage to their former coloniser and in any event, there are perils and high economic costs to transporting perishables long distances.


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    #50
    blue5000
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,616 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    If UK starts importing cheaper food from the rest of the world, there is a danger of our markets on mainland Europe not taking our produce due to 'contamination' fears of food smuggled here from UK.

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



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    #51
    Bullocks
    Registered Users Posts: 5,890 ✭✭✭Bullocks


    blue5000 wrote: »
    If UK starts importing cheaper food from the rest of the world, there is a danger of our markets on mainland Europe not taking our produce due to 'contamination' fears of food smuggled here from UK.

    Bord bia will have to work hard on showing our traceability. They will have to keep as good an eye on the factories as us farmers records


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    #52
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,051 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Looking from north. I think no deal is now very real possibility.
    2nd referendum is out because no one has answer or agreement to what the question would be.
    Can’t see how current deal will go through.
    Don’t see any other options.

    An additional backstop in Irish Sea exactly same as one for Irish border 🙂. That would possibly keep everyone happy


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    #53
    wrangler
    Registered Users Posts: 11,057 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    Bullocks wrote: »
    Bord bia will have to work hard on showing our traceability. They will have to keep as good an eye on the factories as us farmers records

    They'd be foolish to get involved in auditing the factories, wouldn't be their remit anyway


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    #54
    grassroot1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭grassroot1


    wrangler wrote: »
    They'd be foolish to get involved in auditing the factories, wouldn't be their remit anyway

    We were foolish to let them audit us that wasnt their remit either!


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    #55
    wrangler
    Registered Users Posts: 11,057 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    grassroot1 wrote: »
    We were foolish to let them audit us that wasnt their remit either!

    Probably better than the supermarkets organising it


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    #56
    Bullocks
    Registered Users Posts: 5,890 ✭✭✭Bullocks


    wrangler wrote: »
    They'd be foolish to get involved in auditing the factories, wouldn't be their remit anyway

    Might be foolish but I wouldn't put it outside their remit either . There is every bit as much chance of something wrong happening meat between processors and retailers than inside a farm gate if not more of a chance I reckon .
    But I'm sure the factories wouldn't give them such an easy wayleave into their workplaces as farmers do


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    #57
    greenfield21
    Registered Users Posts: 976 ✭✭✭greenfield21


    The hate for Brits is really coming out now in that Roscommon case. Can't wait for the border.


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    #58
    Suckler
    Registered Users Posts: 2,156 ✭✭✭Suckler


    greenfield21 wrote: »
    The hate for Brits is really coming out now in that Roscommon case. Can't wait for the border.

    Painfully ridiculous. That case has absolutley nothing to do with "The Brits".


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    #59
    Willfarman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭Willfarman


    Love tommy tier a s take on the border.. build a wall around 9 inches high!


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    #60
    kerryjack
    Registered Users Posts: 1,556 ✭✭✭kerryjack


    I wish they pulled the pin and fuucjed off sick of it at this stage, never liked them anyway and if we could get a vote to run them out if the north i would die happy.


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    #61
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,051 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    kerryjack wrote: »
    I wish they pulled the pin and fuucjed off sick of it at this stage, never liked them anyway and if we could get a vote to run them out if the north i would die happy.

    Who is “them”?


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