BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

lawred2 · 02-07-2018 12:22pm

Could anyone who can read that tell me if there will be a way of getting from Malahide to the Mater Private? (Eccles street/N1) - obviously there would be transfers but how doable will it be?

pclive · 02-07-2018 12:23pm

MJohnston wrote: »

If something like that is changed, it'll be a short leap to the whole plan collapsing. The intent is clearly to get people away from a single route mindset and more comfortable with very casual switching of multiple routes. Soon as you start making exceptions for routes, that whole idea falls apart.

I completely agree but huge pressure will be put on from TD's and Cllrs etc

Let hope that the NTA can stick with whats been published today.

Geuze · 02-07-2018 12:27pm

MJohnston wrote: »

So does the 90 minute fare and short distance fare mean that Dublin Buses existing fare structure will be completely scrapped?

Will stages be scrapped? I hope so.

Stephen Strange · 02-07-2018 12:30pm

lawred2 wrote: »

Could anyone who can read that tell me if there will be a way of getting from Malahide to the Mater Private? (Eccles street/N1) - obviously there would be transfers but how doable will it be?

D1 as far as O seems to be the handiest. That would bring you to the North Circular side of the Mater, interchanging at The Five Lamps. Seems very doable.

Edit: D1 would be an every 30 minute frequency, with O being every 7.5 minutes.

lawred2 · 02-07-2018 12:33pm

Stephen Strange wrote: »

D1 as far as O seems to be the handiest. That would bring you to the North Circular side of the Mater, interchanging at The Five Lamps. Seems very doable.

Edit: D1 would be an every 30 minute frequency, with O being every 7.5 minutes.

my wife will be relieved - current system has her driving to Whitehall to pick up a bus

Podge_irl · 02-07-2018 12:33pm

pclive wrote: »

I completely agree but huge pressure will be put on from TD's and Cllrs etc

Let hope that the NTA can stick with whats been published today.

Putting buses through James' doesn't make much sense anyway. Much better to have people transfer to the Luas.

Stephen Strange · 02-07-2018 12:35pm

lawred2 wrote: »

my wife will be relieved - current system has her driving to Whitehall to pick up a bus

Another option would be DART to Connolly and O to the Mater, so there appears to be a few options to choose from with the new system.

lawred2 · 02-07-2018 12:37pm

Stephen Strange wrote: »

Another option would be DART to Connolly and O to the Mater, so there appears to be a few options to choose from with the new system.

well unless there was a competitive multi mode annual ticket - the annual bus ticket would only cover the two buses.

Nermal · 02-07-2018 12:37pm

Does the two-fare system mean I still have to talk to the driver?

Anything in there about going cashless?

Spanish Eyes · 02-07-2018 12:38pm

Am I the only one who finds it impossible to read the map, even with zoom.

I'm getting eye strain here!!

sharper · 02-07-2018 12:42pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Am I the only one who finds it impossible to read the map, even with zoom.

I'm getting eye strain here!!

https://busconnects.ie/media/1247/map2-proposednetwork.pdf

Make sure to use the +/- buttons in the bottom right (in chrome viewer at least) to zoom in and out

Spanish Eyes · 02-07-2018 1:05pm

sharper wrote: »

https://busconnects.ie/media/1247/map2-proposednetwork.pdf

Make sure to use the +/- buttons in the bottom right (in chrome viewer at least) to zoom in and out

Thanks, yes I used zoom and the print went fuzzy. Ah well, I'm getting the overall picture anyway. :rolleyes:

Hurrache · 02-07-2018 1:10pm

schemingbohemia wrote: »

The 90 minute fare should be a game changer.

I find it amusing that it's being pushed as a great idea considering the Travel 90 ticket from decades ago. Yes, it now includes more than just a bus, but it was useful way back when people had to transfer.

Whereas now with the restructuring of the network, it's a necessity.

Spanish Eyes · 02-07-2018 1:15pm

Presumably the lower short journey fare will require interraction with the driver?

lawred2 · 02-07-2018 1:18pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Presumably the lower short journey fare will require interraction with the driver?

this front door interaction nonsense puts a lot of these frequency promises at serious risk

Hurrache · 02-07-2018 1:20pm

10 routes, pretty much all the Dublin North West routes, interchange at Blanchardstown Centre. It'll be a ****ty service and mess everything up for the month of December.

Plenty of positives though with plenty of links and access to the likes of the train and luas stations.

Spanish Eyes · 02-07-2018 1:20pm

lawred2 wrote: »

this front door interaction nonsense puts a lot of these frequency promises at serious risk

Agree completely.

The only solution is to make the 90 minute transfer ticket €2 flat fare!

I also don't see a price for the 90 minute ticket.

LeinsterDub · 02-07-2018 1:23pm

lawred2 wrote: »

this front door interaction nonsense puts a lot of these frequency promises at serious risk

I'd imagine the lower fare will last a year and then be removed. It's a smart tactical move by the NTA.

sharper · 02-07-2018 1:26pm

lawred2 wrote: »

this front door interaction nonsense puts a lot of these frequency promises at serious risk

Frequency on the main corridors is supposed to be 6-7.5 minutes. I don't know what the average dwell time at each stop is but I can easily see busses bunched up together after 5 stops as they're held up. Further down the road you'll be waiting 25 minutes with nothing happening and then 5 busses will pass by.

G_R · 02-07-2018 1:32pm

sharper wrote: »

Frequency on the main corridors is supposed to be 6-7.5 minutes. I don't know what the average dwell time at each stop is but I can easily see busses bunched up together after 5 stops as they're held up. Further down the road you'll be waiting 25 minutes with nothing happening and then 5 busses will pass by.

Hopefully 95% of journeys won't require driver interaction if they are moving to a flat fare system. Stick a second validator on the other side on the way in and make them faster, and actually enforce people using middle doors to disembark, and you're well on your way to reducing dwell times at stops.

AlanG · 02-07-2018 1:49pm

Hurrache wrote: »

10 routes, pretty much all the Dublin North West routes, interchange at Blanchardstown Centre. It'll be a ****ty service and mess everything up for the month of December.

Plenty of positives though with plenty of links and access to the likes of the train and luas stations.

Looks like Blanchardstown Village, Delwood, Glenville and Roselawn will loose direct access to the city as the 261 loop will replace the 39 here. Unless they re-engineer things around the hospital there will be no interchange going towards town onto the the B route (which takes the dual carriageway) and users will be expected to travel back out to the shopping center to get on the B route.
Also without pedestrian access being provided from the snugbourough road onto the dual carriageway it will leave a lot more unhappy people.
All pretty strong areas for FF and FG so interesting to see if Leo stands over this.

kerplun k · 02-07-2018 1:50pm

I’m not all that pushed on improved frequency times, normally I time a bus before I take a journey so the only thing I really care about is journey time. I’d normally use the 15, and 15b bus routes, which takes between 40m to 1hr from door to City Centre. The 15 and 15b are now the A1 and 16, and the routes are almost identical, the 16 takes a slightly different route as it gets closer to City centre, but If the journey time is the same, then this whole thing is pointless.

LeinsterDub · 02-07-2018 1:57pm

kerplun k wrote: »

I’m not all that pushed on improved frequency times, normally I time a bus before I take a journey so the only thing I really care about is journey time. I’d normally use the 15, and 15b bus routes, which takes between 40m to 1hr from door to City Centre. The 15 and 15b are now the A1 and 16, and the routes are almost identical, the 16 takes a slightly different route as it gets closer to City centre, but If the journey time is the same, then this whole thing is pointless.

Just because you don't care about frequency doesn't mean it's pointless.
Just because your route hasn't massively changed doesn't mean it's pointless.
There is also an entire infrastructure part to come which will decrease journey times , this isn't pointless.
A lot of stops will also thankfully be culled. Once again this isn't pointless.

MJohnston · 02-07-2018 1:58pm

kerplun k wrote: »

I’m not all that pushed on improved frequency times, normally I time a bus before I take a journey so the only thing I really care about is journey time. I’d normally use the 15, and 15b bus routes, which takes between 40m to 1hr from door to City Centre. The 15 and 15b are now the A1 and 16, and the routes are almost identical, the 16 takes a slightly different route as it gets closer to City centre, but If the journey time is the same, then this whole thing is pointless.

For you maybe, but frequency is a much more important factor in transport quality perception than journey time.

loyatemu · 02-07-2018 2:05pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Thanks, yes I used zoom and the print went fuzzy. Ah well, I'm getting the overall picture anyway. :rolleyes:

download the individual area maps as PDF - then you can zoom all the way in.

loyatemu · 02-07-2018 2:06pm

I note still nothing for the Southern Cross Rd in Bray - I presume this is because Finnegan's have the contract but I'm sure the local residents would rather it was part of the main network.

jack presley · 02-07-2018 2:08pm

Hurrache wrote: »

10 routes, pretty much all the Dublin North West routes, interchange at Blanchardstown Centre. It'll be a ****ty service and mess everything up for the month of December.

They'd be doing well putting a stop before the bus enters the slip road (and some sort of pathway up) as it can be a real pain coming up to Christmas spending 10 minutes or so to get from the slip road to the bus stop at the centre.

Amirani · 02-07-2018 2:08pm

kerplun k wrote: »

I’m not all that pushed on improved frequency times, normally I time a bus before I take a journey so the only thing I really care about is journey time. I’d normally use the 15, and 15b bus routes, which takes between 40m to 1hr from door to City Centre. The 15 and 15b are now the A1 and 16, and the routes are almost identical, the 16 takes a slightly different route as it gets closer to City centre, but If the journey time is the same, then this whole thing is pointless.

So it doesn't change things in your use case, but makes it better in many other peoples' use cases and yet you declare it pointless. Great attitude to have...

Spanish Eyes · 02-07-2018 2:13pm

loyatemu wrote: »

download the individual area maps as PDF - then you can zoom all the way in.

Thanks, that worked great. Must remember that for the future!

LegallyAbroad · 02-07-2018 2:16pm

Having a quick look at the plan, it doesn't seem to work at all well for Clontarf.

The frequency of the 130 is reduced and there is no link up to the orbital routes.

Looking at Chapter 8, Network Outcomes, Clontarf is either no better off or worse off under all the metrics, save for 60 minutes:

- Access to Jobs and Students (20mins): N/C
- Access to Jobs and Students (30mins): Reduced
- Access to Jobs and Students (40mins): Reduced

Then if you look at the connections, e.g. Drumcondra station within 30 minutes on a weekday at 12, Artane, Coolock and Clontarf although being close in proximity in Drumcondra, are not withing the timeframe (presumably because there's no link up to the orbital routes.

Obviously, I've only looked at it from how it impacts my bus routes/connectivity, but slightly suprised to see an entire area where almost everything either stays the same or gets worse. The 104 bus to DCU seems to have been axed completely? I'm not sure how students who use that bus will be expected to get there, presumably drive or cycle.

TL/DR: Clontarf will lose a bus route, will have reduced frequency for its current other bus route and will not have connectivity to the orbital routes.

BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

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