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No Man's Sky

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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,090 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    Reekwind wrote: »
    Finding a new species of fish is boring (the second time round at least), finding a new species of fish after your ship plunges into the ocean in a desperate bid to escape a random pirate attack is exciting.

    But this is saying that in order to be interesting or engaging something has to be hyper-dramatic or action packed or conflict based, which is a very limiting approach to storytelling and indeed media of any type. Obviously its one of the more effective forms, but there's so much more potential in gaming.

    All the games you mentioned, with Minecraft arguably excepted (Minecraft is actually something of an exception in gaming as a whole!), are heavily based on in-depth mechanics and elaborate combat scenarios. That kind of depth is great - dynamic, artful and indeed potentially 'emergent'. But that's only one type of game, one way of building a player-driven narrative. Animal Crossing is mentioned above - there's a game with mechanics no more in-depth or complex than pushing 'A' to chat with someone or buying and rearranging some furniture. But it's been a huge success, millions of people spending hundreds of hours in their own villages with all manner of great stories emerging in the process. Or what of the environmental storytelling of Dear Esther or Gone Home - games whose instructions boil down to 'walk, look, click'. And then there's extreme examples like the recently released Mountain - effectively no player input at all, but absolutely fascinating watching the rock just floating in space and what happens to it. Noby Noby Boy and Curiousity and the like prove that there are players out there who are fascinated by larger 'metagames' and will engage in repetitive actions until to achieve a bigger goal. The latter particularly is easy to mock (so, so easy), but these are all games that show the potential of games to express themselves in a very different way, some in a very successful way.

    The mechanics and gameplay of these games are basic, taking seconds to 'master' and understand as opposed to the tens and hundreds of hours demanded by Civilisation and the like. Obviously in terms of raw design and engagement there's more going on in a complex RTS game, but then I tend to find the 'smaller' titles with simpler mechanics can be more atmospheric, emotionally immediate, accessible (not always a bad word!). There are developers out there really pushing what games express and how they do so, and it has been proven a minimalistic approach is one way of doing it. The unexpected narratives that emerge during an epic battle in Crusader Kings or Street Fighter are one type of gaming story, but there's a lot of work to be done in terms of providing a more varied landscape - having games that illustrate the same sort of diversity as the vast differences between Les Miserables, The Old Man and the Sea, 1984 and an Alice Munro collection of short stories, for example.

    Put it this way: when you go exploring or traveling in real-life, what is that sticks in your mind? It's the discovery of new sights, sounds, people, places, things. Exploration on its own terms - even if you don't have to navigate through a war-torn country or dangerous environment to get there :pac: - is a wonderful thing. The simple joys of discovery can be some of the most potent 'drama' of all, what will stick in your mind for decades after the fact. When I think back to playing through, say, Assassins Creed Black Flag, the first memory that springs to mind isn't one of the elaborate assassinations I pulled off when all the game's mechanics were put to use - in fact, a lot of that just blends into noise. It's the moment when I casually emerged from a forest and was greeted by a magnificent sweeping valley and a huge waterfall that really stands out. That single beautiful image and the minutes I took soaking it in is so much more memorable than many hours of plundering and piratey shenanigans. If a game like No Man's Sky can capture that feeling on a regular basis, with only the bare minimum of mechanics, then I can see myself losing many hours to it (although I have to admit I have little time, literally, for games with massive time demands - I think there's a whole lot of value in games that can keep me fascinated even for only a couple of hours).

    This is all academic of course until we actually play No Man's Sky - it could have in-depth mechanics or none at all and still be fascinating or disappointing or whatever. I look forward to finding out, that's for sure :)


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Radiosonde wrote: »
    But Animal Crossing is the successful counter example there, a game with little conflict.
    It isn't about conflict, it's about game mechanics that lead to higher order emegergent tactics and strategies.
    I still haven't seen any announcement or leaks to say there's much gameplay meat on those infinite variation bones.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,126 ✭✭✭Reekwind


    But this is saying that in order to be interesting or engaging something has to be hyper-dramatic or action packed or conflict based...
    No, that wasn't the intention of my post at all. This isn't an issue of excitement or conflict; in the example above it can be anything that propels the player into a scenario and helps build the narrative. For emergent narrative games without conflict, see city builders.

    This is basic storytelling: a narrative, like a line, requires more than one point. There must be a reason why something happens. In games with determined plots (whether linear or not, Dear Esther has a narrative, albeit a fixed one) this is easy. In procedurally-generated single-player games however we know that everything we see in these games is just a jumble of code spit out by an algorithm. Why is that mountain there? Because the computer said so. Hmmm.

    Hence the importance of mechanics to these games is that they facilitate the suspension of disbelief and the construction of our own narratives. We invent our own why to drive the narrative forward. Taken in isolation, I know that my bastard son has been assigned the schizophrenic trait because the computer has rolled a set of dice. But I never consider this in isolation: I've 'known' that character since his birth and the mechanics have acquainted me with him (via education, marriage, being a scheming bastard, etc). To me he is now more than a few lines of code and this shapes the decisions I make. In other cases (eg Minecraft, SimCity) the same impact is had from watching the landscape evolve following my actions.

    Here we have the crude narrative arc to our emergent narrative. There is a before, something happens and there is an after. The key is the 'something happens', ie the actual gameplay. Where there is no plot then something else is needed to justify and drive the story. To, essentially, create that sense of progress inherent in (almost) all narratives.

    Take this away and you're effectively left with a pretty screensaver. Skyrim looked beautiful (although, like Black Flag, it was designed to do so) but would I have spent a hundred hours on the game if there was nothing else to do but walk around and take screenshots? No. And that's with a design team working to incorporate the scenery into the game for effect (the best example of which is probably leaving the Vault in Fallout 3). Take away that design team and you just have random scenery - how many people spend time just gazing at mountains in Minecraft after their first hour with the game?

    So can I imagine diving into an ocean and being excited at finding a new species of fish? Yes. The first time. But unless the game gives me something to do with those this then I probably won't care the next time I see a different type of fish. Why should I?
    This is all academic of course until we actually play No Man's Sky - it could have in-depth mechanics or none at all and still be fascinating or disappointing or whatever. I look forward to finding out, that's for sure :)
    Fully agreed.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 10,246 Mod ✭✭✭✭F1ngers


    Didn't see this posted in the thread, http://www.gamespot.com/the-next-big-game-no-mans-sky/


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,891 ✭✭✭iamanengine


    Is this the kind of game where you can land your ship on an undiscovered planet only to unearth an ancient civilisation of tribes people and then blow them all to smithereens only to discover the tribes people housed a race of aliens so you then gtfo and take off in your space ship to fly to the next planet to discover it's inhabited completely by mutated sheep and then spend your days as a lonely shepherd?

    Cos that's the game I want to play :pac:

    Basically my real question is, when you land on a planet, will it be inhabited and will you interact with those people whether it be by peaceful trading or endless death?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 698 ✭✭✭Rossin


    have a look at the gameplay video in that link and i guess you'll know as much as anyone else then


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,891 ✭✭✭iamanengine


    Rossin wrote: »
    have a look at the gameplay video in that link and i guess you'll know as much as anyone else then

    I'm in work :P Will be checkin it out when I get home!


  • Registered Users Posts: 698 ✭✭✭Rossin


    Is this the kind of game where you can land your ship on an undiscovered planet then gtfo and take off in your space ship to fly to the next planet to discover it's inhabited

    id say you got this much right anyway


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 34,526 CMod ✭✭✭✭CiDeRmAn


    I suppose, what I'm looking for is Skyrim in space myself.
    Land on a world, find procedurally generated structures, inhabited worlds with trading opportunities and warfare, deserted worlds with a more horror theme, and so on.
    Come on, more details!
    This is the game that has sold me on owning a PS4!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,790 ✭✭✭2Mad2BeMad


    CiDeRmAn wrote: »
    I suppose, what I'm looking for is Skyrim in space myself.
    Land on a world, find procedurally generated structures, inhabited worlds with trading opportunities and warfare, deserted worlds with a more horror theme, and so on.
    Come on, more details!
    This is the game that has sold me on owning a PS4!

    It's coming out on x1 isn't it? Timed exclusive or something, could be wrong.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 34,526 CMod ✭✭✭✭CiDeRmAn


    2Mad2BeMad wrote: »
    It's coming out on x1 isn't it? Timed exclusive or something, could be wrong.

    Nope, they have only left it open for development on other platforms, likely to be PC.
    Then again, if the essence of this game is to be a procedurally generated universe where systems and worlds have their uncertainties nailed down once visited and the data uploaded to a server, it's likely that each format will then have it's own universe, unless some rather expensive high jinks for an indie developer is possible and the information is pooled.
    Still, it's a big universe, plenty of room to all exist in the same one, at least according to the fiction of the game, and never meet each other, so instead of a Star Trek type Alpha to Delta quadrants of a galaxy we could have the various formats having these designated areas.
    Who knows though, right?


  • Registered Users Posts: 81,601 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    CiDeRmAn wrote: »
    I suppose, what I'm looking for is Skyrim in space myself.
    Land on a world, find procedurally generated structures, inhabited worlds with trading opportunities and warfare, deserted worlds with a more horror theme, and so on.
    Come on, more details!
    This is the game that has sold me on owning a PS4!

    Skyrim in space? I highly doubt it.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,090 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    Unpopular opinion: I actually sort of hated the 'game' part of Skyrim. The uninspiring combat, the repetitive dungeons and bland quest design to me anyway got in the way of exploring the magnificent world they'd created. That's why I'm kind of hoping No Man's Sky offers an option for purer exploration.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Unpopular opinion: I actually sort of hated the 'game' part of Skyrim. The uninspiring combat, the repetitive dungeons and bland quest design to me anyway got in the way of exploring the magnificent world they'd created. That's why I'm kind of hoping No Man's Sky offers an option for purer exploration.
    It's not that the I found the gameplay all that bad, but I just don't have the time these days to kill a million pigs for the experience points! Show me the storyline please!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,891 ✭✭✭iamanengine


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    It's not that the I found the gameplay all that bad, but I just don't have the time these days to kill a million pigs for the experience points! Show me the storyline please!

    Take a moment for us college students who do have the time :pac:


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 34,526 CMod ✭✭✭✭CiDeRmAn


    Actually, if our turns out to be a modern Star Control 2 I'll be in all kinds of bliss, that was one of my favourite space exploration games of all time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 477 ✭✭McSasquatch II




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,090 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    The full Edge feature is well worth a read, it discusses a lot of the concerns that have been raised on here. It's clear that it's a game still being shaped into a final form (and they suggest it will be receiving a lot of updates post launch, ala-Minecraft) but it should allay some fears for both those hoping for more elaborate game systems and those who just want to explore (the idea of a pacifist ship able to outrun fights is mentioned). Interesting to read how the mainstream response to the game has caught Hello off-guard, but they're determined to make the game they want.

    Really encouraged by their words about the world - I mean galaxy! - and narrative. Details will be embedded in backgrounds, architecture and the like instead of told through dialogue or cutscenes. It will be only the committed player able to put it all together, and instead their aim is to provide most players with a mysterious but consistent galaxy to explore. Seems like a much more organic approach to world building to me - especially after seeing the heavy handed info dumping of the Destiny beta!


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 23,055 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kiith


    Some new trailers for this came out over the last few days. Still looks excellent, though i hope they increase the draw distances/popup on planets.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,084 ✭✭✭✭Kirby


    That looked great but I couldn't help wonder why an animal would evolve to be so tall with those massive legs.....on a desert planet. :p


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,848 ✭✭✭Fnz


    Kiith wrote: »
    Some new trailers for this came out over the last few days. Still looks excellent, though i hope they increase the draw distances/popup on planets.


    Evokes memories of Metroid Prime (music, locales and odd fauna).

    Ooh, imagine this as a (vastly) open-world Metroid Prime... shame nobody would want it. ;)


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,188 ✭✭✭DoYouEvenLift


    How much will this probably be? Looks great. And there was another really nice looking indie game shown at E3 that made me want to get into them, can't seem to find the name of it to see the trailer again though


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    All the planets seem to be dotted with Stargates?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 34,526 CMod ✭✭✭✭CiDeRmAn


    Please Glob may this game not suck
    Any sign of a release date yet?


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 10,246 Mod ✭✭✭✭F1ngers


    CiDeRmAn wrote: »
    Please Glob may this game not suck
    Any sign of a release date yet?

    Just seen a 15 for '15 video, so it seems to be out this year at least.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,569 ✭✭✭EoinHef


    Interview with Mr Murray about the game and whats actually involved in the game play,this interview makes me want it even more.

    He talks about trading,currency,resource collection,ship upgrading and apparently suit upgrading as well. This is by far the most ive heard about the mechanics of the game. Maybe ive missed something along the way be this interview he seems to be quite open about what the player actually does in the game.

    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-01-22-so-what-do-you-actually-do-in-no-mans-sky


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,160 ✭✭✭tok9


    First 5-6 mins are just No Man's Sky with the sound effects from the game. I think it's the first time I've properly heard them actually.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Still hard to gauge what it is you can actually do in the game, seemed like a lot of passive wandering around (although the worlds still look gorgeous). Not sure about the creature noises though, those whines got really annoying; maybe it's just me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Captain Chaos


    From what we have seen so far. You can kill the wildlife causing the sentinels to come after you, if you kill them stronger ones will come after you. There is a wanted system like GTA and eventually the military will be after you.

    You can break down tress into resources along with other stuff we don't know yet to make things or sell on.

    You can get better/different ships for combat or trading.

    It looks to be a light version of Elite or X. There is still alot of mystery about the game, either they are hiding it or there really is nothing more to show.

    I still like the concept and it looks like a great game to just chill out playing with some ambient tunes on spotify.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 34,526 CMod ✭✭✭✭CiDeRmAn


    pixelburp wrote: »
    Still hard to gauge what it is you can actually do in the game, seemed like a lot of passive wandering around (although the worlds still look gorgeous). Not sure about the creature noises though, those whines got really annoying; maybe it's just me.

    Well Elite was a build your own adventure type of affair, with the goal being your rating, from Harmless to Elite and that was enough.
    Obviously 30 years have passed and we do expect some sort of goal, and presumably they have something in place.
    But ...
    If the game has a decent variety of engagements, space, land and sea, and a direction to it all, it should be awesome.
    Just want it now!


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