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Buying an apartment without any management company in place.

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    #32
    RickyG
    Registered Users Posts: 43 ✭RickyG


    pwurple wrote: »
    There needs to be a management company in place for insurance and other regulations. An apartment owner owns the inner shell.

    I own an apartment in a block where the management company dissolved. We (the owners) had to set up our own management company to replace it. it can be done quite quickly and it's not particularly expensive to do, talk to your solicitor. You already have a solicitor for the conveyancy, discuss with them.

    It could be complicated to do while you are not an owner? Legal advice really is required for this situation. What happens if you create a management company, become a director of it, and then never buy the apt?

    Completely bizaar the vendor is not addressing this though, as the place cannot be sold until it is resolved.

    I think the issue the vendors have is they don't see it as an apartment block as there's only 2 outlets.plus they bought during the boom and now trying to sell at a third of the price.so not keen on more expense and hassle.they bought a joint insurance policy for the purpose of selling and now that's no use either.


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    #33
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    RickyG wrote: »
    I think the issue the vendors have is they don't see it as an apartment block as there's only 2 outlets.plus they bought during the boom and now trying to sell at a third of the price.so not keen on more expense and hassle.they bought a joint insurance policy for the purpose of selling and now that's no use either.

    More of a duplex then.. What did your solicitor say about it? Or theirs?

    It can probably be resolved, but will need all parties to get lined up.


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    #34
    RickyG
    Registered Users Posts: 43 ✭RickyG


    pwurple wrote: »
    More of a duplex then.. What did your solicitor say about it? Or theirs?

    It can probably be resolved, but will need all parties to get lined up.

    My solicitor totally negative about the purchase from the get go while vendors solicitor urged them to get a joint insurance policy for purpose of the sale etc.even my mortgage advisor shocked bank refuse to release the funds..I might try another bank but thought of starting again has me allergic..


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    #35
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,872 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    RickyG wrote: »
    My solicitor totally negative about the purchase from the get go while vendors solicitor urged them to get a joint insurance policy for purpose of the sale etc.even my mortgage advisor shocked bank refuse to release the funds..I might try another bank but thought of starting again has me allergic..

    What's the insurance status of the 4 properties attached?

    Was the complex originally set up with a Management company and it went bust? If it was I can't see how you can insure something you don't own, all you get when you buy in a complex owned by a management company is the air inside the 4 walls, even the balcony and back garden aren't yours you just get exclusive use.


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    #36
    RickyG
    Registered Users Posts: 43 ✭RickyG


    Del2005 wrote: »
    What's the insurance status of the 4 properties attached?

    Was the complex originally set up with a Management company and it went bust? If it was I can't see how you can insure something you don't own, all you get when you buy in a complex owned by a management company is the air inside the 4 walls, even the balcony and back garden aren't yours you just get exclusive use.

    You mean the houses either side?I'd imagine they have their own insurance..I've no idea if there was ever a management co..does every estate have a management company?


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    #37
    riclad
    Registered Users Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    95 per cent of estates don,t have management companys,
    when you buy a house, you buy the site and the garden.
    Apartments need management companys to do repairs and insure the whole
    building ,and maintain common area,s hallways ,doors ,gates ,
    car parks ,etc
    There,s a few housing estates ,that have a management company ,
    but its very rare .
    Most people with buy house and get house insurance and pay property tax.
    The council is responsible for the roads, drain,s street lighting in the estate,
    management companys get paid service charge to do repairs ,and have a fund in cause there s a major repair to carry out ,eg new gates ,front doors to the building.lifts to be fixed.


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    #38
    RickyG
    Registered Users Posts: 43 ✭RickyG


    riclad wrote: »
    95 per cent of estates don,t have management companys,
    when you buy a house, you buy the site and the garden.
    Apartments need management companys to do repairs and insure the whole
    building ,and maintain common area,s hallways ,doors ,gates ,
    car parks ,etc
    There,s a few housing estates ,that have a management company ,
    but its very rare .
    Most people with buy house and get house insurance and pay property tax.
    The council is responsible for the roads, drain,s street lighting in the estate,
    management companys get paid service charge to do repairs ,and have a fund in cause there s a major repair to carry out ,eg new gates ,front doors to the building.lifts to be fixed.

    That's what I thought.and these two apartments have no common areas . separate front doors,hallways etc.garden is belonging to the bottom floor and balcony to the top so a management company doesn't apply as such.or does it?


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    #39
    RickyG
    Registered Users Posts: 43 ✭RickyG


    riclad wrote: »
    95 per cent of estates don,t have management companys,
    when you buy a house, you buy the site and the garden.
    Apartments need management companys to do repairs and insure the whole
    building ,and maintain common area,s hallways ,doors ,gates ,
    car parks ,etc
    There,s a few housing estates ,that have a management company ,
    but its very rare .
    Most people with buy house and get house insurance and pay property tax.
    The council is responsible for the roads, drain,s street lighting in the estate,
    management companys get paid service charge to do repairs ,and have a fund in cause there s a major repair to carry out ,eg new gates ,front doors to the building.lifts to be fixed.

    That's what I thought.and these two apartments have separate doors,hallways etc.garden is belonging to the bottom floor and balcony to the top so a management company not really needed.or is it ?


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    #40
    jd
    Registered Users Posts: 5,680 ✭✭✭jd


    RickyG wrote:
    You mean the houses either side?I'd imagine they have their own insurance..I've no idea if there was ever a management co..does every estate have a management company?

    But are the houses on each side in one unit?


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    #41
    RickyG
    Registered Users Posts: 43 ✭RickyG


    jd wrote: »
    But are the houses on each side in one unit?

    Yes houses on each side proper 3 bed houses..The place I'm interested in a house 2 but divided into 2 apartments.


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    #42
    April 73
    Registered Users Posts: 846 ✭✭✭April 73


    Has the bank explained exactly what their issue is with the property? I know you mentioned lack of a management company, but a management company doesn't really apply to a single property divided into two on a development which does not require an overall management company. Is it insurance, confusion over the title, or questions over who is responsible for what part of the building? Have you managed a face-to-face talk with anyone in the bank? Have you tried a broker who might be able to advise on which bank might be more likely to deal with this kind of property?

    This type of idea - where a single property is divided into self-contained units is more common in cities in the UK. I wonder how mortgages are issued on these properties over there?

    Have you asked the owner of the other apartment which bank they used if they needed a mortgage? It might be worth approaching the same bank?


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    #43
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,872 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    RickyG wrote: »
    You mean the houses either side?I'd imagine they have their own insurance..I've no idea if there was ever a management co..does every estate have a management company?

    Sorry I thought the whole block was done like the one that you are interested in.
    Have you checked the planning status of the conversion?

    To be honest even if you get a mortgage it could become a nightmare. What happens if the apartment upstairs sewage pipes get blocked, what happens if the upstairs balcony leaks into your home or who repairs roof issues? This is possibly why the bank said no.


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    #44
    Paddy3
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭Paddy3


    RickyG wrote: »
    That's what I thought.and these two apartments have no common areas . separate front doors,hallways etc.garden is belonging to the bottom floor and balcony to the top so a management company doesn't apply as such.or does it?

    The building itself is a common area. Some entity has to own the building.


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    #45
    riclad
    Registered Users Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    When you buy an apartment you are buying part of a building,
    so there,s usually a management company to take care of maintenance .
    Problems can appear on the walls ,roof, eg roof leak,
    which can effect 1 or more of the owners in the building .
    IF you buy the apartment ,can you even assume you own the garden ,
    it might be owned by the original owner of the builder .
    Even after you buy the apartment .


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    #46
    RickyG
    Registered Users Posts: 43 ✭RickyG


    April 73 wrote: »
    Has the bank explained exactly what their issue is with the property? I know you mentioned lack of a management company, but a management company doesn't really apply to a single property divided into two on a development which does not require an overall management company. Is it insurance, confusion over the title, or questions over who is responsible for what part of the building? Have you managed a face-to-face talk with anyone in the bank? Have you tried a broker who might be able to advise on which bank might be more likely to deal with this kind of property?

    This type of idea - where a single property is divided into self-contained units is more common in cities in the UK. I wonder how mortgages are issued on these properties over there?

    Have you asked the owner of the other apartment which bank they used if they needed a mortgage? It might be worth approaching the same bank?

    Well I've found another lender that doesn't have any real issue with lack of management company.just have to wait and see the conditions on mortgage offer letter now and proceed from there.if this fails I'm done with it tho.


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    #47
    April 73
    Registered Users Posts: 846 ✭✭✭April 73


    Well done for persevering. Hope it works out. If you go ahead make sure it's very clear which owner is responsible for what, including the exterior, drains, roof etc.
    Keep us updated?


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    #48
    RickyG
    Registered Users Posts: 43 ✭RickyG


    April 73 wrote: »
    Well done for persevering. Hope it works out. If you go ahead make sure it's very clear which owner is responsible for what, including the exterior, drains, roof etc.
    Keep us updated?

    Well I'm nothing if not stubborn.thanks for the advice..just want it sorted one way or the other now. Tis a long running saga but even if it doesn't work out others will hopefully benefit from all the good advice and tips if they ever come across same situation.cheers...


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    #49
    jd
    Registered Users Posts: 5,680 ✭✭✭jd


    You are probably buying a long leasehold, seeing as there are just the two units. Make sure your solicitor confirms that there are no lacunae regarding the rights and responsibilities of the parties involved.


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    #50
    RickyG
    Registered Users Posts: 43 ✭RickyG


    Well after all this time and plenty of ups and downs I'm finally expecting my key tomorrow.its been one long slog but hopefully worth it in the end.lot of painting etc ahead but least I'm done with renting at last.... :)


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    #51
    April 73
    Registered Users Posts: 846 ✭✭✭April 73


    RickyG wrote: »
    Well after all this time and plenty of ups and downs I'm finally expecting my key tomorrow.its been one long slog but hopefully worth it in the end.lot of painting etc ahead but least I'm done with renting at last.... :)

    Good news. Glad to hear it worked out in the end. Happy home-owning & painting to you!


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    #52
    RickyG
    Registered Users Posts: 43 ✭RickyG


    April 73 wrote: »
    Good news. Glad to hear it worked out in the end. Happy home-owning & painting to you!

    Thank you..I'll not lie and say it was all smooth sailing..lots of times I nearly pulled the plug but I got good solicitor and lender in the end..Thanks to all for advice and input..apartment upstairs is for sale now too so hope prospective buyers learn something from my experiences. :)


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    #53
    Frances1
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭Frances1


    Hi,

    I am buying an apartment similar to your situation. Where did you get your insurance from? Thanks


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    #54
    Tigerandahalf
    Registered Users Posts: 7,811 ✭✭✭Tigerandahalf


    You would also need to look into who owns the common areas, green areas, trees, kerbing, roads.

    The councils no longer maintain green areas in estates, so who is ultimately responsible for maintenance and repairs to these areas. If the roads in are covered in snow who will clear them.

    I'd love to know what exactly councils are still covering in estates given that people are paying a property tax. We have already seen FF talk about deductions to the property tax because of that.

    I see a lot of new estates have no boundary walls outside the front entrance of houses. So how exactly do you stop someone from encroaching on your entrance if all that ground outside your entrance is common area.

    Interesting article here where the legal ownership of green areas was raised.
    http://www.eastcorkjournal.ie/hundreds-of-green-areas-still-remain-in-developers-hands-after-housing-estates-taken-in-charge-by-cork-county-council/


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    #55
    virgo69
    Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭virgo69


    Frances1 wrote: »
    Hi,

    I am buying an apartment similar to your situation. Where did you get your insurance from? Thanks

    Mine is through Alliance, but I could only get it through a broker.


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    #56
    RickyG
    Registered Users Posts: 43 ✭RickyG


    Frances1 wrote: »
    Hi,

    I am buying an apartment similar to your situation. Where did you get your insurance from? Thanks

    Hi there.. I got my finance from ebs and they pushed for insurance from the company they are kind of affiliated with to keep everything simple and in the one place so to speak.. worked out fine..once mortgage paid off can shop around anywhere I like then..


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