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New Dublin Bus Route to feed Luas @ Broombridge

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  • #2
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/new-bus-service-to-connect-finglas-to-luas-green-line-822717.html

    What's the point the frequency of the new bus route will most likely be ****e, it will probably visit every housing estate and after all that you could be still waiting up to half an hour for the Luas.

    Bus Connects can't come quick enough. Hi frequency buses meeting the Luas at Broadstone is the way forward.


  • #3
    Hugh Jampton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 204 ✭✭Hugh Jampton


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/new-bus-service-to-connect-finglas-to-luas-green-line-822717.html

    Good news. Of course, this also gives a connection for commuter rail at Broombridge to Finglas as well. Long overdue. Time for some more joined up thinking to make the most of rail infrastructure.


  • #4
    Bray Head
    Registered Users Posts: 892 ✭✭✭Bray Head


    It probably makes sense once the Luas frequency improves from March. 

    It will be interesting to see if DB will be willing/able to tie in with the Luas timetable.


  • #5
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Bray Head wrote: »
    It probably makes sense once the Luas frequency improves from March. 

    It will be interesting to see if DB will be willing/able to tie in with the Luas timetable.

    The Luas dosen't have a timetable


  • #6
    john boye
    Registered Users Posts: 1,489 ✭✭✭john boye


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    The Luas dosen't have a timetable

    There's clearly some kind of timetable, be it public or not or drivers wouldn't know when to depart.


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  • #7
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,660 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Luas runs to a timetable just like all trams/metro systems in the world. It has some time built in ensure delays don't impact running.


  • #8
    scouserstation
    Registered Users Posts: 328 ✭✭scouserstation


    I wonder will this new route only serve the Finglas area or will it go out further to other areas like Charlestown or Tyrrelstown


  • #9
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Luas runs to a timetable just like all trams/metro systems in the world. It has some time built in ensure delays don't impact running.

    But yet the exact departure times are not made known to the public just the frequency at each stop.


  • #10
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    I'm surprised DB are going to operate this service, I would have thought the NTA would wait until GAD are up and running before starting a new route.


  • #11
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,660 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    But yet the exact departure times are not made known to the public just the frequency at each stop.

    The stop info is based on timetables for each tram on the line.

    If your a regular user you will know the exact departure times at your local station give or take 2-3 minutes.


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  • #12
    KD345
    Registered Users Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭KD345


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    But yet the exact departure times are not made known to the public just the frequency at each stop.

    The Luas timetable is available to the public on the Transport For Ireland website.

    Green Line - https://www.journeyplanner.transportforireland.ie/nta/TTB/EFA03__00006af3.pdf

    Red Line - https://www.journeyplanner.transportforireland.ie/nta/TTB/EFA03__000004d5.pdf


  • #13
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    KD345 wrote: »
    The Luas timetable is available to the public on the Transport For Ireland website.

    Green Line - https://www.journeyplanner.transportforireland.ie/nta/TTB/EFA03__00006af3.pdf

    Red Line - https://www.journeyplanner.transportforireland.ie/nta/TTB/EFA03__000004d5.pdf

    Thanks that clears it up for me


  • #14
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,277 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    scouserstation wrote: »
    I wonder will this new route only serve the Finglas area or will it go out further to other areas like Charlestown or Tyrrelstown

    Like most such DB routes it'll probably start off small, reliable and efficient - then lobbying from neighbourhood groups and councillors will see it extended and also do a series of tangents through various housing estates until it quickly becomes unpredictable and unusable.


  • #15
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    I'm surprised DB are going to operate this service, I would have thought the NTA would wait until GAD are up and running before starting a new route.


    There is a comprehensive Transitional Framework agreement in place between the NTA/Dublin Bus/Dept of Transport,which specifically includes providing new and upgrading existing routes.

    The issue,if there is one here,is the length of time it is taking to get these improvements actually operational.

    The Tyrellstown/Broombridge route is the first indication of an actual "Busconnects" style project,which is significant in itself.

    The NTA's own FAQ on the Tendering process outlines it's thinking in this regard.
    #Some new or amended routes are in planning as are opportunities for additional services on existing routes. NTA anticipates the cost of providing these additional routes and services will be largely similar to the current level of activity over a short timeline, certainly within the 2 to 3 years envisaged in the LRC recommendation.

    #We have already been working with Dublin Bus to come up with a plan on increasing the number of services and the frequency of existing services that they run so that in two years’ time, they will be operating a similar level of service as they are now and will be staffed accordingly.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • #16
    Sexual Chocolate
    Registered Users Posts: 2,053 ✭✭✭Sexual Chocolate


    Wonder how it will be routed ? I'd put money on it that it will start in Charlestown and onto the village.....

    Curious to see if it will be allowed to go over Broombridge or if it will be routed the same way as the 120.


  • #17
    StreetLight
    Registered Users Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭StreetLight


    ArmaniJeanss wrote: »
    Like most such DB routes it'll probably start off small, reliable and efficient - then lobbying from neighbourhood groups and councillors will see it extended and also do a series of tangents through various housing estates until it quickly becomes unpredictable and unusable.

    Not to mention being pulled due to 'anti-social behaviour'.


  • #18
    Hugh Jampton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 204 ✭✭Hugh Jampton


    In the meantime, more bus shenanigans on A-B.ie.

    Travelling from M3 Parkway to Broombridge during the day? Think the logical connection would be to take the train to Clonsilla and change to a direct train to Broombridge?

    Wrong! At least, that's what the TFI Journey Planners think.

    http://journeyplanner.transportforireland.ie/nta/XSLT_TRIP_REQUEST2?itdLPxx_template=odvbox

    Apparently, you need to get off the train at Dunboyne and get a 70 bus to the bottom of the Navan Road, then walk.

    One hour and forty three minutes versus thirty minutes by train.

    Joined up Public Transport at its very best!!

    :D:D:D


  • #19
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,582 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    The reason that is happening is because that journey would involve a four minute connection and I believe that the journey planner will not consider a connection that tight for journey planning purposes.


  • #20
    Hugh Jampton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 204 ✭✭Hugh Jampton


    devnull wrote: »
    The reason that is happening is because that journey would involve a four minute connection.

    Still doesn't make sense though.


  • #21
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,582 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Hugh Jampton wrote: »
    Still doesn't make sense though.

    You have to have a cut-off somewhere and industry standard tends to be at least five minutes for rail services throughout most of Europe apart from one platform stations which it is usually less for.

    However for shuttles like the M3 Parkway shuttle that exist wholly to connect with other lines rather than being a full line train, there is an argument to reduce them.


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  • #22
    munchkin_utd
    Registered Users Posts: 7,810 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    devnull wrote: »
    The reason that is happening is because that journey would involve a four minute connection and I believe that the journey planner will not consider a connection that tight for journey planning purposes.
    yes, but the system is also used in Munich where theres such connections (actually with only a minute between arrival and departure), so it just would need to be configured that this specific tight connection in Clonsilla is doable


  • #23
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    ArmaniJeanss wrote: »
    Like most such DB routes it'll probably start off small, reliable and efficient - then lobbying from neighbourhood groups and councillors will see it extended and also do a series of tangents through various housing estates until it quickly becomes unpredictable and unusable.

    One of the major benefits of the Luas , the stops are the stops and the route is the route. It takes years and millions to change.


  • #24
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,430 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    One of the major benefits of the Luas , the stops are the stops and the route is the route. It takes years and millions to change.

    Which on the face of it you would think is a disadvantage (lack of flexibility), but I believe in the Irish political/planning/transport landscape is a big advantage.

    In Ireland, systems that have flexibility quickly get abused due to political pressure. Ah, sure redirect that bus off the motorway into a little estate to pick up a handful of OAPs, shure it will only take 2 minutes. Before long you have major routes turned into magical mystery tours of every estate along the way!

    Or cancel bus lane changes so we can squeeze a few cars and taxis through (e.g. quays) due to pressure from car parks, etc.

    I think Luas brings with it a certain gravity that effects all transport and infrastructure around it that buses just can't do.

    Also the people of Dublin love Luas, which makes objections from car park owners, etc. harder to push through.


  • #25
    Hugh Jampton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 204 ✭✭Hugh Jampton


    devnull wrote: »
    You have to have a cut-off somewhere and industry standard tends to be at least five minutes for rail services throughout most of Europe apart from one platform stations which it is usually less for.

    However for shuttles like the M3 Parkway shuttle that exist wholly to connect with other lines rather than being a full line train, there is an argument to reduce them.

    TFI is not promoting a legimate connection. I’d say there is an imperative to change that, not just an argument to do so.


  • #26
    Hugh Jampton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 204 ✭✭Hugh Jampton


    bk wrote: »
    Which on the face of it you would think is a disadvantage (lack of flexibility), but I believe in the Irish political/planning/transport landscape is a big advantage.

    In Ireland, systems that have flexibility quickly get abused due to political pressure. Ah, sure redirect that bus off the motorway into a little estate to pick up a handful of OAPs, shure it will only take 2 minutes. Before long you have major routes turned into magical mystery tours of every estate along the way!

    Or cancel bus lane changes so we can squeeze a few cars and taxis through (e.g. quays) due to pressure from car parks, etc.

    I think Luas brings with it a certain gravity that effects all transport and infrastructure around it that buses just can't do.

    Also the people of Dublin love Luas, which makes objections from car park owners, etc. harder to push through.

    Indeed. In a previous life on Boards I started a thread called ‘Luaswatch’ during the construction phase of the Red and Green lines. It was remarkable just how many boardsies banged on about White Elephants and whatnot then. Instead, people used Luas and generally loved it. It works.

    Who would go back to the multiple, infrequent A, B and C route variations of stuffy, condensation filled buses winding interminably around four to an acre housing estates as the model for urban living and transport in Dublin?


  • #27
    Sexual Chocolate
    Registered Users Posts: 2,053 ✭✭✭Sexual Chocolate


    Supposedly the new route (40L) will start from Tyrrelstown through Ballycoolin and Finglas West.


  • #28
    andrewfaulk
    Registered Users Posts: 430 ✭✭andrewfaulk


    Sexual Chocolate wrote: »
    Supposedly the new route (40L) will start from Tyrrelstown through Ballycoolin and Finglas West.

    So it will mirror the 40D for a large part of the route.. I used the 40D for 18 months to go from Glasnevin to Ballycoolin and it was painful.. If it wasn’t traffic on the north road in Finglas try to turn into Finglas village (for PSO/ lobbying reasons I guess) it was traffic at the junction near cappagh hospital..


  • #29
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Finglas to Broombridge is a 12 min cycle. They should consider facilitating more cyclists.


  • #30
    XPS_Zero
    Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭XPS_Zero


    Hugh Jampton wrote: »
    Indeed. In a previous life on Boards I started a thread called ‘Luaswatch’ during the construction phase of the Red and Green lines. It was remarkable just how many boardsies banged on about White Elephants and whatnot then. Instead, people used Luas and generally loved it. It works.

    Who would go back to the multiple, infrequent A, B and C route variations of stuffy, condensation filled buses winding interminably around four to an acre housing estates as the model for urban living and transport in Dublin?

    There was an IT story about the Port Tunnel recently and they interveiwed Bertie he recalled all the hysterical letters about white elephants and people predicting their houses would fall into the ground because of the tunneling etc

    This magical mystery tour thing that existed mostly before Network Direct in DB, politicos still try to pull that one out. I saw it with RBB and the changes to the 7 they were just strengthening it out to get it out of housing estates and onto main roads, and in some of the areas if you actually look at the street at ground level it's amazing a double decker bus can maneuver in it the estates are that tight in turns etc

    The 45a still has an utterly hilarious detour that it does like twice a day where it suddenly veers off the Bray road at Scoil Mhuire in shankill all the way down into Rathsallagh estate, down to the end of the estate, over a bridge, down into Shanganagh, all the way down to the coast (yep! :P) then does a meandering through Shangangah that would literally make you dizzy, picks up 3-4 people there, and all the way back out again. I was on the 45a one time and this happened and I thought 'oh my God the guys lost! where the f*** are we going????'


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  • #31
    Bray Head
    Registered Users Posts: 892 ✭✭✭Bray Head


    Three weeks later and there is zero information on either DB's or the NTA's websites about the new route. Nothing at all about frequency or route.

    Presumably the media got a press release - why can't customers see it?


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