BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

cherryghost · 02-07-2018 4:49pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I assume you're looking at page 7? How is that degraded?

Page 24, 39, 42, 57, 64. You can clearly see in existing vs proposed that routes have been revised away from the area. 76 is gone and now terminates at Liffey as W2 and must be transferred via a C route instead. 25's have been removed from their alternate routes also.

Clontarf seems to have had a similar treatment.

LeinsterDub · 02-07-2018 4:57pm

cherryghost wrote: »

Page 24, 39, 42, 57, 64. You can clearly see in existing vs proposed that routes have been revised away from the area. 76 is gone and now terminates at Liffey as W2 and must be transferred via a C route instead. 25's have been removed from their alternate routes also.

Clontarf seems to have had a similar treatment.

That's the luas , that map doesn't show bus routes.

Spanish Eyes · 02-07-2018 4:58pm

cherryghost wrote: »

Chapelizod looks like its been degraded too
https://www.busconnects.ie/media/1230/appendix-a1-30-minute-isochrones.pdf

The service seems to stop at Heuston under the plan, and transfer to Luas. On the other hand it will now service Liffey Valley.

But yes, it does look like the only Chappo service will be the new 14 from Liffey Valley via Palmerstown.

Having said that, it probably makes more sense for the outer buses to use the N4 by pass which is a superb bus corridor as it is.

L1011 · 02-07-2018 5:21pm

Even with the peak document which I'd missed before, this looks like a net reduction in peak capacity to Maynooth. Those buses are full and positive noises had been made about extras once DB got the capacity later this year.

dublinman1990 · 02-07-2018 5:29pm

I'm looking at page 21 of Chapter 7 that covers the new map for Dublin Airport.

It appears that the Airlink routes, the 747 & 757 are not included if these new proposals are approved from the NTA once the consultation is concluded later on this year. For routes terminating at Dublin Airport; there will be only three new routes in operation at this location; the A2, 282 & the 60.

Maps E3, P3: Swords - Malahide
The redesign in this area attempts to replace a complex network of overlapping routes with a simpler one featuring higher frequencies. Direct service to the city centre is retained for most of Swords, but at this distance from the city, it is sometimes faster to provide local services (numbered in the 200s) connecting to a DART train or frequent bus service.

This area sees a large expansion in access to inner north and north-west parts of Dublin due to the new east-west orbitals shown on map P6. Trips from Swords and Malahide now have easy connections in north Dublin City to travel east-west to destinations such as Blanchardstown and DCU.

This area also benefits significantly from two kinds of commercial services that are not included this study. Swords Express is assumed to continue to exist, providing nonstop service between Swords and the city centre via the M1 tunnel. Airport Express buses are also assumed to continue to exist, linking the airport nonstop to various parts of Dublin. Both of these services have higher fares than the PSO services covered by this study.

Central and Western Swords

The existing routes 41 and 41c, serving the densest and largest neighbourhoods of Swords, are replaced by a branch of the A Spine and a very frequent local route connecting to it.

• Route A4 provides 15 minute frequency all day from Swords Manor to Dublin city centre, going through Glen Ellen, Swords Main Street and Dublin Road. The A4 bypasses the Airport terminal for a faster trip into the city, as the 41c does today. This branch of the A Spine continues south beyond the city centre to Rathmines and Rathfarnham.

• Route 282 covers the parts of today’s current 41/41c not served by the A4. From the north-west of Swords it extends via Rathbeale Road, Swords Main Street, River Valley and Boroimhe to end at the Airport, with service every 10 minutes all day.

This arrangement raises all-day frequency on most local segments in this area. Passengers on the 282 must connect to an A4 bus to reach the city centre (either at Swords Main Street or along Dublin Road north of the Airport) but this is made easy by extremely high frequency, and the benefit is a faster ride bypassing the Airport. The result is that travel time to the city centre from points on Route 282 are the same as or better than they are today.

Both routes would be supplemented by an express service to the city centre and UCD via the N1 tunnel in the morning and afternoon peak hour, similar to existing Route 41x, in addition to the all-day commercial Swords Express service. See the separate section on peak-only services later in this chapter.

Airport Area

The airport would be served by the A2 branch of the A spine, with service every 15-minutes south toward the city centre. South of the Airport, Swords Road stops would have 7.5 minute frequency from the combination of the A2 and A4. Routes 282 and 60 (see below) would be the direct airport services
northward to Swords and Malahide.

Again, the various commercial airport express services (numbered in the 700s) are not covered by this study and would presumably continue to operate.

Southeast Swords, Feltrim and Kinsealey

These would be served by Route 280 from Portrane to Clongriffin. In this area, this route would replace existing Route 43 to Dublin city centre via the Malahide Road. However, it would operate more frequently (every 40 minutes all day) and terminate at Clongriffin DART station. Frequency would be every 20 minutes at peak hours, to match DART arrivals and departures. Route 280 would also continue northward from Swords to Donabate
and Portrane.

Malahide and Portmarnock

The design here is meant to ensure fast access to the city centre, either via direct routes or efficient DART connections, while also providing direct service to Swords from almost all of the area.

• Route D1 from Malahide to Crumlin would run every 30 minutes from Malahide Village to Dublin city centre via Malahide Road, continuing to Crumlin as part of the D Spine. Similar to existing Route 42, this route would provide a relatively direct path to the city centre while also providing some access to schools, jobs and shopping near the Malahide Road in north Dublin City.

• Route 60 from Dublin Airport toward Malahide and Portmarnock. In this area, Route 60 would provide service every 30 minutes between Dublin Airport, Swords Pavilions, Malahide Village, and Portmarnock. Route 60 also extends southward from Portmarnock via Baldoyle and Donaghmede, and ultimately to the Dublin city centre, though it would not be a logical path to the city centre for points west of Malahide.

• Route 281 from Swords to Portmarnock DART would be the fastest path to the city centre from much of this area.

Route 281 would provide service every 20 minutes connecting to every DART train. Route 281 would also connect to DART at Malahide station, for better access to DART’s fast service into the city centre. The matching frequencies between 281 and DART would mean consistent timing of the connections between them. Meanwhile, Route 281 would also be the main link to Swords for the entire area served, with easy connections on Swords Main Street to all parts of Swords and points north.

North of Swords Service north of Swords would consist of:

• Route 280 from Portrane to Clongriffin. North of Swords, this route (described above) replaces the existing Route 33b, but then continues southward to Clongriffin DART.

• Route 285 from Balbriggan to Swords. This route would replace existing Routes 33 and 33a. Unlike existing service, Route 285 would operate as a single all day route and would terminate in Swords, where passengers could connect to frequent services to the Airport or Dublin (see above). Route 285 would operate every 30 minutes in the middle of the day (and every 15 minutes at peak) to and from Skerries, with half of those buses continuing all the way to Balbriggan.

Dyr · 02-07-2018 5:34pm

L1011 wrote: »

Even with the peak document which I'd missed before, this looks like a net reduction in peak capacity to Maynooth. Those buses are full and positive noises had been made about extras once DB got the capacity later this year.

If they want buy in on high frequency routes they'd need to do something about summer schools using university routes as the cheap alternative to private hire for groups that number in the 100s. Ridiculous situation

L1011 · 02-07-2018 5:35pm

The airlink routes are commercial and weren't in scope for this, no more than aircoach or airport hopper were

dfx- · 02-07-2018 5:53pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Can you give one tangible example of a journey with a 90 frequency , that has a better frequency under the current model?

"Route 20"

LeinsterDub wrote: »

The D3 route is direct to the city. Do you mean to say "How can my little corner of Clondakin not have a direct route to the city?"

Is the major defence of this network supposed to be "well your service is gone, but if you wander far enough, there'll be a direct service".

Major stops in Woodford, 20 mins frequency on the 13 now to 60 minutes. Bluebell, Naas Rd, Tyrconnell Rd, indeed anywhere away from the 151 is 20 minutes up to 60 minutes.

cherryghost · 02-07-2018 5:59pm

dfx- wrote: »

Major stops in Woodford, 20 mins frequency on the 13 now to 60 minutes. Bluebell, Naas Rd, Tyrconnell Rd, indeed anywhere away from the 151 is 20 minutes up to 60 minutes.

But hey, we have an infrequent feeder route to the Luas now (I'm not from Woodford but completely understand their situation)!

LeinsterDub · 02-07-2018 6:19pm

dfx- wrote: »

"Route 20"

Is the major defence of this network supposed to be "well your service is gone, but if you wander far enough, there'll be a direct service".

The 20 mirrors a high frequency route for much of its route and the rest looks to be a 5 minute walk away from one in the worse case scenario

BonnieSituation · 02-07-2018 6:29pm

Bambi wrote: »

If they want buy in on high frequency routes they'd need to do something about summer schools using university routes as the cheap alternative to private hire for groups that number in the 100s. Ridiculous situation

Gas you should say that. The whole of Clare St down passed Merrion Square was blocked by a 7 taking on "Spanish" students. Easily sat there for 8 mins.

BonnieSituation · 02-07-2018 6:29pm

Bambi wrote: »

If they want buy in on high frequency routes they'd need to do something about summer schools using university routes as the cheap alternative to private hire for groups that number in the 100s. Ridiculous situation

Gas you should say that. The whole of Clare St down passed Merrion Square was blocked by a 7 taking on "Spanish" students. Easily sat there for 8 mins.

marno21 · 02-07-2018 6:37pm

On Six One just there, RTE began the report on how Dunboyle will lose its direct service to the city centre and instead have to interchange in Blanchardstown.

It's little wonder these projects get drowned in misinformation, false myths and outrage by people who don't know what they're talking about who have been told stuff by people with a vested interest in keeping the status quo or who are misinformed themselves.

LeinsterDub · 02-07-2018 6:38pm

Bambi wrote: »

If they want buy in on high frequency routes they'd need to do something about summer schools using university routes as the cheap alternative to private hire for groups that number in the 100s. Ridiculous situation

The cheek of the public using public transport

jlang · 02-07-2018 6:38pm

AlanG wrote: »

Carpenterstown and Castleknock seem to have a pretty significant drop in service as well. I think they chose their time analysis maps very well to avoid showing the bad areas.

Can't argue with the spine principle, but there's a pretty high traffic load for some of the supposedly infrequent/local services.

Matching the B service from the Northwest to the UCD line seems to match the previous indication for a super express lane.

Carpenterstown's new 37 doesn't go down onto the quays and merges with the 35 to follow the old 38's route across the North Circular. You do have the option of changing onto a B route or changing mode where the line crosses the Luas. Changing's less fun on the way back out, getting half way from town and then needing to wait for your required 37 or 35 to switch on to. Or for more fun, you could get the B all the way to the Centre and then a 37 or 35 back towards town (unlikely) .

For Ongar, renaming the 39 into B1 and B2 still gives a loopy service and you seem to still have to go via Blanch SC. For those going to town, an option to go out onto the N3 at Littlepace and on to the B spine that way would seem preferable - but the 265 that does that only goes as far as the Blanch Centre: exactly where you might be trying to bypass! I can't download a Peak time map at the moment but there will presumably still be a peak time express option that avoids it.

Appendix A1, (isochrones) is fascinating. Under the new isochrone map from Blanch Centre, they estimate you might just about make it to make it to Ballycoolin Ind Est (or Castleknock Village) in 30 minutes. You'd expect to walk from Myos to the Centre in less than 30 minutes, skipping the wait for a bus altogether.

On the College Green page (p22), the spines to have worse 30 minute access seem to be the N3, Malahide Road, Clontarf and Rock Road. Orbital connections from Finglas and Dundrum improve access significantly. In theory. Similarly, 30 min access range from Howth improves, but it would appear the "time to get bus to town" will get worse.

You still can't expect to make it from Adamstown to Lucan village or Liffey Valley in 30 minutes, though. From Celbridge, you can now reach Weston (and then switch to a plane of course) I presume these all include significant wait time, as these journeys at midday take a lot less time than that.

Very little can change on the Airport page, as even with improved off peak frequency on the relevant spine, it seems you don't get far enough from the airport in 30 minutes by bus to switch to an orbital, (I suspect a 45 minute chart would show improvements in the connectivity across the Northside, but adding the Metrolink to the charts would too). Unless you live in Swords, where the improved frequency does bring up the number of people within range.

Dyr · 02-07-2018 6:40pm

marno21 wrote: »

On Six One just there, RTE began the report on how Dunboyle will lose its direct service to the city centre and instead have to interchange in Blanchardstown.

It's little wonder these projects get drowned in misinformation, false myths

So RTE were wrong in their claim?

threetrees · 02-07-2018 6:40pm

I can time my bus into town according to the timetable and that's great.

I can time a bus coming home too. I'm on a 30 minute frequency route so timing is important.

If the changing bus at a central hub is implemented, I'll be grand going into town, I can still time a bus and pick up a 5 min frequency bus to the city centre.

However I have issue with coming home. I get a 5 min frequency bus to the central change point and wait for a 25 minute frequency bus. ( 5 minute improvement). I could easily miss that bus home if the 5 min frequency bus gets delayed. I'm very sceptical about how it'll work.

sharper · 02-07-2018 6:42pm

L1011 wrote: »

Even with the peak document which I'd missed before, this looks like a net reduction in peak capacity to Maynooth. Those buses are full and positive noises had been made about extras once DB got the capacity later this year.

That is a bit confusing, they just added extra term capacity for the 66 and overall capacity will be less than before that especially since the 67 equivalent will no longer serve Maynooth. I don't see a bus every 25 minutes being nearly enough to handle the number of students.

marno21 · 02-07-2018 6:43pm

Bambi wrote: »

So RTE were wrong in their claim?

The primary takeaway from this story is how Dublin as a whole will benefit from a redesigned bus network. Not how one small town will suffer a minor inconvenience to the benefit of many others.

Dublin's bus network needs to take a modern approach in its redesign and the NTA clearly believe this since they are redesigning it.

In Ireland we have a bizarre idea that if one person is inconvenienced by a project that benefits 100 people we should cancel the project because of that one person simply because the start shouting and spreading misinformation. Then they give out to the NTA/TII/Irish Water etc for not designing an omelette that doesn't involve breaking eggs.

Dyr · 02-07-2018 6:44pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

The cheek of the public using public transport

large private groups that are organised by commercial operators don't count as the public in my book, I'm pretty sure there's an existing rule about group numbers on buses as it is. it was the same when you had lads decide that public parks were a great way to avoid paying rent for their boot camps

It's always the same in Ireland, you put a resource in place and some cowboy will come up with a way to monetise it and ruin it.

L1011 · 02-07-2018 6:44pm

After eventually finding all the bits - Celbridge is being rodgered on weekends. Reduction to hourly off-peak when its 30mins currently.

The buses are rammed as it is...

OldMrBrennan83 · 02-07-2018 6:44pm

This post has been deleted.

Spanish Eyes · 02-07-2018 6:45pm

sugarman wrote: »

Have to say I'm fairly impressed with the overall plan.

However i'd love to see the 2 proposed fares brought in now as is, along with removing cash and the need to interface with the driver just to see how much of a difference that alone would make. Considerable id image.

Two fares now will still mean interraction with the driver for the lower one trip fare presumably?

Unless one can buy a book of "one trip fare" tickets for the short journey and validate like the LEAP or something, mutters and thinks that would make sense... even in the short term until there is a flat fare no matter where you are going.

Dyr · 02-07-2018 6:47pm

marno21 wrote: »

The primary takeaway from this story is how Dublin as a whole will benefit from a redesigned bus network. Not how one small town will suffer a minor inconvenience to the benefit of many others.
.

Do you not think its a bit funny that you're complaining about outrage while you were also wrongfully accusing RTE of misinformation and perpetuating myths

It is sorta funny.

Spanish Eyes · 02-07-2018 6:49pm

L1011 wrote: »

After eventually finding all the bits - Celbridge is being rodgered on weekends. Reduction to hourly off-peak when its 30mins currently.

The buses are rammed as it is...

You have the luxury of a train station at Hazelhatch though, which AT LAST will be connected to Celbridge and Leixlip by route 259. Hurrah. Well it's a start anyway for better connectivity with the trains anyway.

I'd say there is no one absolutely thrilled at seeing their own direct route being affected, and I'm one of them but I'll give it a chance.

dfx- · 02-07-2018 6:53pm

cherryghost wrote: »

But hey, we have an infrequent feeder route to the Luas now (I'm not from Woodford but completely understand their situation)!

Ah yes, the 'connection' which for those in Woodford is up a horrible hill. I am sure the elderly are hugely looking forward to that 'connection'.

It's looking like not an improvement, but just a dressed up service cut for Woodford. Which is inexplicable.

StreetLight · 02-07-2018 7:00pm

Woodford is also connected to the city by the proposed Route 63, which is basically a re-route of the existing 69.

marno21 · 02-07-2018 7:11pm

Bambi wrote: »

Do you not think its a bit funny that you're complaining about outrage while you were also wrongfully accusing RTE of misinformation and perpetuating myths

It is sorta funny.

I wasn't directly accusing RTE of misinformation here - it's a constant underlying tone when it comes to reporting on these matters amongst most, most, media in Ireland.

It would be better if RTE stayed neutral and reported what the NTA plan to do here rather than straight away taking the "misery" angle on the story.

Corca Baiscinn · 02-07-2018 7:28pm

marno21 wrote: »

On Six One just there, RTE began the report on how Dunboyle will lose its direct service to the city centre and instead have to interchange in Blanchardstown.

It's little wonder these projects get drowned in misinformation, false myths and outrage by people who don't know what they're talking about who have been told stuff by people with a vested interest in keeping the status quo or who are misinformed themselves.

V poor media analysis of transport changes, wired to find the possible"them & us" conflict angle. IT behaved similarly when traffic restrictions on quays to favour buses/luas came in, headlines were all about motorists being delayed not about improvement to bus journeys

Phil.x · 02-07-2018 7:31pm

Is there any good news for people in clonsilla, ongar and surrounding areas? Will there be more direct buses to the city rather than the 1hr20min expedition.

Will there be more buses? Is bus connect now gone or is this just another part.

BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

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