End Irish anthem at GAA matches, demands DUP minister

McArmalite · 01-02-2008 6:12pm

Pathfinder wrote: »

................The Orange Order is not funded by the British govt via the taxpayer as the GAA is.

As the GAA is it must make Gaelic games more accommodating to unionists,.........................Otherwise stop taking the handouts.

The NIFA has run a kick out racism and sectarianism campaign for years.

...............I don't remember the NIFA banning a large section of the community as the GAA did.

The Orange Order, the british version of the Ku Klux Klan, is funded by the british govt and believe it or not the Irish govt also. It recieves money from the various bodies setup under the GFA for culture, art etc. I think they may extract money from NI tourist body also as well as Belfast city council etc. A few weeks ago an Irish govt body such as the arts council or something announced they were funding the OO for 100,000 euors or something under cultural development or whatever. The GAA has done enough to accomadate the unionists removing the ban on the Ruc/brits and opening up Croke Park ( you'll be surprised to read, both of which I agreed with. Think county grounds could also be used to facilitate other sports. E.g. when Leinster asked the GAA could they use Parnell Park while Donnybrook was refurbished they refuesd - disgraceful ).

" I don't remember the NIFA banning a large section of the community as the GAA did. " In the late 60's a bus carrying opposition supporters to Derry for a match was burned out in a stupid act of vandalism by a tiny minority. For that Derry, based in the nationalist Brandywell, was banned totally form the NI league and refused entry despite many attempts again. Other clubs, in particuliar Linfeild, caused more trouble but ofcourse weren't banned as they were good loyal Protestants.

walrusgumble · 02-02-2008 7:27pm

Pathfinder wrote: »

................The Orange Order is not funded by the British govt via the taxpayer as the GAA is.

As the GAA is it must make Gaelic games more accommodating to unionists,.........................Otherwise stop taking the handouts.

The NIFA has run a kick out racism and sectarianism campaign for years.

...............I don't remember the NIFA banning a large section of the community as the GAA did.

sweet baby jesus.

there are more ways to suport a group like the orange order than just fiscal means. the authorities did not seem to stop these lads march down nationalist areas in the past dispite knowing full well the problems that it would cause, granted they have a right to association, and to march in their own areas, but to do so in a nationalist area is insensitive considering for many a year st patricks day parades in places like belfast and nationalist dominated derry city were not allowed. by comparison of orange order to the gaa is due to orange order is one thing that makes unionist who are members distinct, they have damn all other cultural significance.

the gaa has to do NOTHING. they seem to be ok in cities like manchester, glasgow and london. why should the gaa stop taking hands outs? these "handouts" are given because of the go,vernments role to recognise the nationalist minority in an unionist majority state also! why should money just be given to people of unionist pursuasion -equal rights for all. the northern nationalist take the gaa seriously, - it is one of main insitutes that allow them to express their nationality. moreover, it is positive, it, like soccer, tries to get kids off the street and stay healthy and active.

its the ifa not the nifa.the racist scheme? lol have you actually gone to a game up there? but ye fair enough, better late than never! the senanate cup has been great to bring both leagues together and a great night out.

last comment shows how much you know about domestic football. yes that it right,they (ifa) did not ban members from the ifa, you think that was ok? they bloody did nothing to stop the the ones (not all fans should be tarnished) or turn the blind eye to secterian crap. sure werent the board all unionists - where was the help for catholic clubs like belfast celtic or derry city fc. where was the public condemnation of incidents like neil lennon or jimmy quinn. i thought normally a group would like to ban its members to associate with questionable moral activities? as for the gaa, well you cant really compare them to the ifa in that context, but yes it is wrong but at least it did not harm anyone. (rep code is fai)

Erin Go Brath · 02-02-2008 9:16pm

Pathfinder wrote: »

................The Orange Order is not funded by the British govt via the taxpayer as the GAA is.

As the GAA is it must make Gaelic games more accommodating to unionists,.........................Otherwise stop taking the handouts.

The NIFA has run a kick out racism and sectarianism campaign for years.

...............I don't remember the NIFA banning a large section of the community as the GAA did.

The lads are right. Quite an astonishing amount of ignorance displayed in this post.

BTW Anyone can play GAA. What do you suggest they do fly the Union Jack and play GSTQ to try and bring more Unionists on board or something? :rolleyes:

McDaid--1916 · 07-02-2008 4:08pm

Pathfinder wrote: »

The NIFA has run a kick out racism and sectarianism campaign for years.

...............I don't remember the NIFA banning a large section of the community as the GAA did.

Was these campiagn successful?..i dont think so?
they still have that sectarian bigotry in the crowd with the union flags and the red white and blue hats. you see sir the GAA doesnt have crowds jumping about waving tricolours and shouting racial and sectarian slurs. Otherwise if it did it too would have racism and sectarianism campiagns.

Fratton Fred · 07-02-2008 4:15pm

McDaid--1916 wrote: »

Was these campiagn successful?..i dont think so?
they still have that sectarian bigotry in the crowd with the union flags and the red white and blue hats. you see sir the GAA doesnt have crowds jumping about waving tricolours and shouting racial and sectarian slurs. Otherwise if it did it too would have racism and sectarianism campiagns.

out of curiosity, is it compulsory to carry a flag the size of a tennis court to football matches in NI? It always appears so whenever I watch it.:rolleyes:

What is the difference between waving a union flag and singing the Irish national anthem? they are both essentially the same thing aren't they?

I know the Union flags and hats are usually a wind up as much as anything, if you happy to accept one, you must accept them both. Similarly, ban one, ban all.

McDaid--1916 · 07-02-2008 4:26pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

out of curiosity, is it compulsory to carry a flag the size of a tennis court to football matches in NI? It always appears so whenever I watch it.:rolleyes:

I wouldnt no, ive never been to one of there matches due to the very basis on which the team is made up and because of the out right sectarian bigotry.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

What is the difference between waving a union flag and singing the Irish national anthem? they are both essentially the same thing aren't they?

actually no, the union flag is a foreign flag which is flaunted everywhere on this island to remind people of the british presence. and oppression.
the song is our countrys national anthem. It is our god given right as irish citizens to have this song played at Irish native games.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I know the Union flags and hats are usually a wind up as much as anything, if you happy to accept one, you must accept them both. Similarly, ban one, ban all.

How about ban all the sectarian bullsh!t?

Fratton Fred · 07-02-2008 5:23pm

McDaid--1916 wrote: »

I wouldnt no, ive never been to one of there matches due to the very basis on which the team is made up and because of the out right sectarian bigotry.

neither have I, the standard is pretty poor as well. I did smile though at the highlights of one game, there were about 100 people there, 50 of whom had massive tricolours, the other 50 had 50 union flags.

McDaid--1916 wrote: »

actually no, the union flag is a foreign flag which is flaunted everywhere on this island to remind people of the british presence. and oppression.
the song is our countrys national anthem. It is our god given right as irish citizens to have this song played at Irish native games.

some people, rightly or wrongly, don't see it as a foreign flag. It does include the cross of St. Patrick after all. Some people on this island see the Irish National Anthem as a foreign anthem. Orangemen see that they have a god given right to march etc.

McDaid--1916 wrote: »

How about ban all the sectarian bullsh!t?

the first way to do that is acceptance that not all people see things the same way as you.

walrusgumble · 07-02-2008 9:11pm

McDaid--1916 wrote: »

Was these campiagn successful?..i dont think so?
they still have that sectarian bigotry in the crowd with the union flags and the red white and blue hats. you see sir the GAA doesnt have crowds jumping about waving tricolours and shouting racial and sectarian slurs. Otherwise if it did it too would have racism and sectarianism campiagns.

moreover, the idea of crowd segeration is an alien concept in the gaa. same also applies with the eircom league matches bar the odd dublin derby, but nothing too bad that the cops cant sort out.

McDaid--1916 · 19-02-2008 3:11pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

neither have I, the standard is pretty poor as well. I did smile though at the highlights of one game, there were about 100 people there, 50 of whom had massive tricolours, the other 50 had 50 union flags.

Pretty Poor?...there ****e lol.
one side is as bad as the other, the bad elements i means.
People on both sides are in favour of peace, which is why Sinn Fein have chosen the more political role, instead of armed campaign...would u agree this is the right way?.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

some people, rightly or wrongly, don't see it as a foreign flag. It does include the cross of St. Patrick after all. Some people on this island see the Irish National Anthem as a foreign anthem. Orangemen see that they have a god given right to march etc.

i took the cross of st poatrick as a reference, it doesnt actually include st patrick cross. Some people wrongly see the Irish national anthem as a foreign song, after all they live on Ireland?..

Fratton Fred wrote: »

the first way to do that is acceptance that not all people see things the same way as you.

I dont expect everyone to have the same views as me, but it just that most loyalist/unionists dont see the benefit of a United Ireland and why would they, there hole purpose was to keep the union with the british empire. Who do u agree with?..a country wanting unity or the continuation of partition and tyranny?

McDaid--1916 · 19-02-2008 3:13pm

walrusgumble wrote: »

moreover, the idea of crowd segeration is an alien concept in the gaa. same also applies with the eircom league matches bar the odd dublin derby, but nothing too bad that the cops cant sort out.

Like the police sorted the riots in dublin?...im sure the Gardi are capable of handling them sort of situations.:rolleyes:

Fratton Fred · 19-02-2008 5:00pm

McDaid--1916 wrote: »

Pretty Poor?...there ****e lol.
one side is as bad as the other, the bad elements i means.
People on both sides are in favour of peace, which is why Sinn Fein have chosen the more political role, instead of armed campaign...would u agree this is the right way?.

It is definately the right way. it is the only way they will secure main stream support in Britain and Ireland. Sinn Fein have some good politicians, they certainly had the ones that impressed me the most in the last Dail elections. The trouble is, they still have the stigma of the terror campaign to compete with.

McDaid--1916 wrote: »

i took the cross of st poatrick as a reference, it doesnt actually include st patrick cross. Some people wrongly see the Irish national anthem as a foreign song, after all they live on Ireland?

I'm guessing they do, otherwise the god awful Irelands Call would never have been written:D

McDaid--1916 wrote: »

I dont expect everyone to have the same views as me, but it just that most loyalist/unionists dont see the benefit of a United Ireland and why would they, there hole purpose was to keep the union with the british empire. Who do u agree with?..a country wanting unity or the continuation of partition and tyranny?

Being English I think I can take a fairly neutral view on it. It sounds corny, but I want what the people want. From my perspective, apart from the fact that it will be a great party when it happens (Which may actually be a bad idea, but I'll explain why later) I don't really have a view on it one way or the other.

walrusgumble · 19-02-2008 11:16pm

McDaid--1916 wrote: »

Like the police sorted the riots in dublin?...im sure the Gardi are capable of handling them sort of situations.:rolleyes:

what rights in dublin? genuine question, football matches? rovers & bohs causals? (most supporters are sound)

- i support/from a team outside of the city so i only know what its like when we go away but i see the odd dublin derby match, are they really that bad? i know there was one big scrap after a dublin gaa match around the drumcondra area last summer, between themselves lol, but it is never as bad as the north or in england.

there are noramally riot squad when certain teams cough rovers cough when they come down the country. they fecked up our place two seasons and it was right in front of the tv cameras, yet pat scully had the cheek to say we were hostile (no cops present until the trouble kicked off - the away supporters team bus got smashed up - our club's fault for that night though by not getting cops down after refusing entry to on bus before game). then again we where no better when gufc came to town two weeks later - too many green street / football factory wanna bees around. either way you dont hear about outside of matches to you?

McDaid--1916 · 21-02-2008 1:26pm

walrusgumble wrote: »

what rights in dublin? genuine question, football matches? rovers & bohs causals? (most supporters are sound)

- i support/from a team outside of the city so i only know what its like when we go away but i see the odd dublin derby match, are they really that bad? i know there was one big scrap after a dublin gaa match around the drumcondra area last summer, between themselves lol, but it is never as bad as the north or in england.

there are noramally riot squad when certain teams cough rovers cough when they come down the country. they fecked up our place two seasons and it was right in front of the tv cameras, yet pat scully had the cheek to say we were hostile (no cops present until the trouble kicked off - the away supporters team bus got smashed up - our club's fault for that night though by not getting cops down after refusing entry to on bus before game). then again we where no better when gufc came to town two weeks later - too many green street / football factory wanna bees around. either way you dont hear about outside of matches to you?

Read the question again a chara, i think u got me wrong i said the RIOTS in dublins not the rights?

duggie-89 · 21-02-2008 10:33pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

out of curiosity, is it compulsory to carry a flag the size of a tennis court to football matches in NI? It always appears so whenever I watch it.:rolleyes:

What is the difference between waving a union flag and singing the Irish national anthem? they are both essentially the same thing aren't they?

I know the Union flags and hats are usually a wind up as much as anything, if you happy to accept one, you must accept them both. Similarly, ban one, ban all.

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

you couldn't be further from the point. the GAA is a gealic tradition thats aim was to revive our national games. the irish national anthem is a great tradition and as it is culturaly an irish organistaion i dont see why they would have to have a union flag if they play the anthem.

Red Hand · 21-02-2008 11:33pm

duggie-89 wrote: »

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

you couldn't be further from the point. the GAA is a gealic tradition thats aim was to revive our national games. the irish national anthem is a great tradition and as it is culturaly an irish organistaion i dont see why they would have to have a union flag if they play the anthem.

GAA has one purpose and that is for Paul Galvin to put his boot physically inside each and every player he will kick later this season (once he's back from injury).:)

Seriously though, if GAA became more of an international sport-becoming more like rugby in terms of European popularity-would ye still want the Irish flag and anthem played? Even if the game was between Italy and France?

Would ye support the spread of GAA into the rest of the UK (don't mean London, btw) and not just NI?

Fratton Fred · 22-02-2008 10:36am

duggie-89 wrote: »

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

you couldn't be further from the point. the GAA is a gealic tradition thats aim was to revive our national games. the irish national anthem is a great tradition and as it is culturaly an irish organistaion i dont see why they would have to have a union flag if they play the anthem.

football = Soccer, not Irish football.

PDN · 22-02-2008 2:20pm

McDaid--1916 wrote: »

i took the cross of st poatrick as a reference, it doesnt actually include st patrick cross.

The union flag does include the St. Patrick's cross. Where else do you think the big red X in the flag comes from?

KevinMc · 22-02-2008 5:21pm

Man, Mr Poots comments did make me laugh.

As it stands there is nothing stopping the unionist community or any other community from going to GAA match and enjoying the game if they like the sport. And the anthem shouldn't make that much of a difference.

But if the anthem were to be scrapped you WOULD have alot of problems with the proud IRISH in the north that stuck with their GAA club and county in the troubles when they were getting abuse from the unionist community when they were wearing their GAA colours and crests.

Is it worth losing the support we have now in the hope that more unionists will get involved. I doubt that the anthem is the real issue.

The GAA was set up to promote Irish culture and to this day they are still a symbol of the All Ireland we should be working hard to achieve.

estebancambias · 22-02-2008 5:44pm

Exactly, its nice to see Nationalism is still alive, I never got the impression it existed on ''liberaldouchebags.ie''(stormfrontquote: After Hours)

A United Ireland is still important, if not essential.

Red Hand · 22-02-2008 8:48pm

estebancambias wrote: »

A United Ireland is still important, if not essential.

Why?

estebancambias · 22-02-2008 9:17pm

Why is it not essential? or why is it important?

Its no essential because apparently it would be a drain on the Irish economy, but important because well like do you see the sea that seperates this land with England? That would indicate that ships were needed to get over here...its not Britian; its Ireland.

Only 20% of people apparently say they are Irish in in the North, tough one the other 80%, if they want to be part of England move back there. The thing is its not that I don't like them, it just doesn't make sense to me that a part of of Ireland should be part of Britian. Nothing should be done with force just simply do you want to stay and be part of an All Ireland or move back where you belong. They must assimilate with our culture, our beliefs if they like the country.

Then Ireland can compensate for the land lost with all this development, and slowly turn the North into a haven of natural beuty....this will never happen but I would like it.

Red Hand · 22-02-2008 9:34pm

Lol! That gave me a good laugh!

Since when are Unionists English?

And who says that Northern Ireland belongs to you who lives on the Southside, or that you have any claim on it?

OK, guess I'd better stay on topic...

kreuzberger · 23-02-2008 9:49am

estebancambias wrote: »

Why is it not essential? or why is it important?

Its no essential because apparently it would be a drain on the Irish economy, but important because well like do you see the sea that seperates this land with England? That would indicate that ships were needed to get over here...its not Britian; its Ireland.

Only 20% of people apparently say they are Irish in in the North, tough one the other 80%, if they want to be part of England move back there. The thing is its not that I don't like them, it just doesn't make sense to me that a part of of Ireland should be part of Britian. Nothing should be done with force just simply do you want to stay and be part of an All Ireland or move back where you belong. They must assimilate with our culture, our beliefs if they like the country.

Then Ireland can compensate for the land lost with all this development, and slowly turn the North into a haven of natural beuty....this will never happen but I would like it.

Its essential in order to resolve a conflict over sovereignty and national territory , a conflict that will ensure a lot of people continue to die or go to jail untill it is resolved . Its essential for national dignity , in that the majority of people on this island want their territory united yet have to submit to a foreign decree that they arent allowed to have a natonal democracy operate accross their national territory . To practice a politics that accepts we arent allowed to have a national democracy because Britian says so is to practice a form of politics dictated by British constitutional demands . Which means we practice a form of politics Britian has decided for us and not a form of politics and democracy we have decided for ourselves . That a neighbouring islands sovereignty over our territory is legitimate while the people who inhabit the island have inferior rights to ownership of their island than a more powerful neighbour . Its essential for the practice of politics within our country in that we will never have a decent democratic system untill the principle that the people of our nation alone have the power and democratic right to determine our own future is central to it. While foreign occupation remians in place the principle that democracy has to be compromised and subverted for our own good , because a foreign country has the right to make this demand of us and to prevent some unforeseen but certain calamity if democracy is asserted - such a principle will continue to infect our national mindset and produce highly undignified ressults
Its essential for us as a people that we finally move on to a future we have decided for ourselves in a dignified manner . While Britian continues to occupy any part of Ireland we just wont . And we will all be the worse for it . We will all practice and live under an undignified system in which our democratic wishes are not respected .

Only 20% of people apparently say they are Irish in in the North

Id seriously dispute that figure . Ill assert most definitely it isnt remotely accurate

walrusgumble · 23-02-2008 6:05pm

McDaid--1916 wrote: »

Read the question again a chara, i think u got me wrong i said the RIOTS in dublins not the rights?

oh yeah that was a typing error, but no, i know what you are referring to. i was referring, like you to "riots".(just looked like a retard thou)

but still if you read my question and the context of it, it was clear that i was referring to "riots" or football hooliganism in dublin's eircom league derby matches. the comparisions of english football should have made it clear!

so i would be obliged if you could answer my question regarding your sceptism of the gardai dealing with these incidents . because the last time i checked, and you can correct me on this, there have not being any riots that the gardai could not handle. (of course lansdowne 1995 ireland v england maybe an exception but in truth that was completely the fault of the fai. the police coped well in the limited time to prevent the irish sides going after the hooligans from the top west stand, of course then there was also the pig head incident at a bohs match a few years ago..)

if your referring to the gardai fiasco of the reclaim the streets or love ulster parade (nothing to do with sport), well then you did not get to what was referring to when i stated segeration of crowds at sporting matches in the south was an alien concept and how reasonably well gardai handle them!

KevinMc · 25-02-2008 9:26am

The last time a checked the GAA was the national game of the island of Ireland. It doesn't matter if unionist/british start going to games the anthem has been a tradition an needs to stay.

It's funny that Mr Poots of the DUP say that the anthem isn't good for unionists support. Well how about the IFA adopt a netural anthem and play it at Northern Ireland games and maybe we'll see how willing they are to compromise. We nationalists are expected to support a Northern Ireland team that plays GOTQ. Don't think thats fair.

DUP double standards!

kreuzberger · 25-02-2008 8:57pm

i wouldnt care if they started playing the soldiers song . I still wouldnt support that stupid little horrible backward state . We shouldnt even get into that " but themmuns ..." argument either .

The GAA is a national organisation and shouldnt start submitting to the institutionalised sectarian pandering that stormont and its politicians from both traditions are synonymous with . They should stay away from that feckin nonsense completely .

Richard · 21-03-2008 12:47pm

KevinMc wrote: »

The last time a checked the GAA was the national game of the island of Ireland. It doesn't matter if unionist/british start going to games the anthem has been a tradition an needs to stay.

Northern Ireland is part of the UK, and hence plays GSTQ at its international soccer matches. Having said that, it is not appropriate for them to play it. There should be something relevent to Northern Ireland. Danny Boy would be ideal. They should change the anthem immediately.

The Soldier's Song is not the anthem of Northern Ireland. I don't have a problem with it being played in the Republic, along with the flying of the Tricolour, but in NI it would really help Unionist participation in GAA if things were changed in NI.

I think part of the problem is that in the past, DUP members have said some very inflammatory things. This isn't one of them. Edwin Poots is trying to be constructive.

guinnessdrinker · 21-03-2008 3:03pm

Richard wrote: »

Northern Ireland is part of the UK, and hence plays GSTQ at its international soccer matches. Having said that, it is not appropriate for them to play it. There should be something relevent to Northern Ireland.

True enough, AFAIK the Scotish or Welsh teams don't play GSTQ before their international matches.

K-9 · 24-03-2008 12:25am

I've been in matches in Armagh, Omagh and Belfast where it was played. To me, it's up to the members of the 6 County Boards to decide. From seeing it played at NI grounds personally, it's a matter of pride. To supporters from the 6 counties, it's a statement of culture and identity.

I was never in the Crossmaglen ground when the anthem was played, with a British Army base having taken over part of the grounds! Thank God it's gone now.

Personally, I believe they have a right to that culture and identity. Same as the Orange Order or indeed Linfield etc.

Bear in mind that the DUP have being calling for an end to attacks to Orange Order halls recently, but conveniently ignoring attacks on GAA clubs!

As regards arguments about foreign game bans, Croke Park etc., the GAA has moved on. Some schools that would have only played Rugby or GAA, are now encouraging kids to play the other sport. Jarlath Burns, the ex Armagh player and TG4 commentator is a great example. In his school he has encouraged the playing of Rugby. This is going on in other schools. Rugby schools are inviting Gaelic coaches to their schools.

This is what is happening on the ground, not debates over history. People are moving on.

Pathfinder · 24-03-2008 7:25pm

kreuzberger wrote: »

i wouldnt care if they started playing the soldiers song . I still wouldnt support that stupid little horrible backward state . We shouldnt even get into that " but themmuns ..." argument either .

The GAA is a national organisation and shouldnt start submitting to the institutionalised sectarian pandering that stormont and its politicians from both traditions are synonymous with . They should stay away from that feckin nonsense completely .

A backward state ?

a bit much coming from a state (the republic), which until the 80s banned birth control, a state which is founded on sectarianism (legally as well as schools and hospitals), where it still takes 7 years to get divorced, and where until 10 years ago playboy magazine was illegal.

As the GAA takes money from unionist tax payers, it has a duty to make itself more accommodating.

End Irish anthem at GAA matches, demands DUP minister

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