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The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V3

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    #5822
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,498 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    nerd69 wrote:
    But as a non hall of famer outperformed edleman in far fewer years while himself being average to below average I'm no sure I understand your argument
    What argument? All I said was I wouldn't rule out Edelman getting in. He had a long career, has 3 rings and a Superbowl MVP, he was a clutch receiver and an excellent punt returner too. He was a great blocker, threw td passes too, a true team player. He has the second most receptions and receiving yards in the postseason behind only the GOAT receiver Jerry Rice in those categories. He is the only player to have 340 or more yards in more than one postseason.
    The only knock is his regular season receiving yards totals.


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    #5823
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 39,437 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Yeah but a very short career too. That always goes against the player.

    Why does it go against the player ? It doesn’t always because Gale sawyers had a short career and retired in 1972(well 1971) and was elected to the HOF in 1977 which is five years. Eagle eye and nerd(the two people talking) do either of you subscribe to the whole “ you can’t write the history of football without person X or Y” logic for the hall of fame ?


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    #5824
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,498 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Itssoeasy wrote:
    Why does it go against the player ? It doesn’t always because Gale sawyers had a short career and retired in 1972(well 1971) and was elected to the HOF in 1977 which is five years. Eagle eye and nerd(the two people talking) do either of you subscribe to the whole “ you can’t write the history of football without person X or Y†logic for the hall of fame ?
    I'm not saying is should go against him, I'm saying it does. It took 11 years for Terrell Davis to get in and it shouldn't. He was ridiculously good.

    As far as every a
    player is concerned I look at their career and decide if I think they should get in or not.

    I believe that Edelman and Heinz Ward should get in. Edelman's postseason numbers and his clutchness are hugely important in that. The same goes for Ward.


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    #5825
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 39,437 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    eagle eye wrote: »
    I'm not saying is should go against him, I'm saying it does. It took 11 years for Terrell Davis to get in and it shouldn't. He was ridiculously good.

    As far as every a
    player is concerned I look at their career and decide if I think they should get in or not.

    I believe that Edelman and Heinz Ward should get in. Edelman's postseason numbers and his clutchness are hugely important in that. The same goes for Ward.

    The issue of playing getting in too soon or too late or not at all is one of the issues I have with the pro football hall of fame(name is a bit misleading) is the way it’s voting process is open to abuse. I mean yes art moddel did the city of Cleveland dirty, but because of the Cleveland member of the press on the committee he’ll never get in.


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    #5826
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 9,957 ✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    eagle eye wrote: »
    I'm not saying is should go against him, I'm saying it does. It took 11 years for Terrell Davis to get in and it shouldn't. He was ridiculously good.

    As far as every a
    player is concerned I look at their career and decide if I think they should get in or not.

    I believe that Edelman and Heinz Ward should get in. Edelman's postseason numbers and his clutchness are hugely important in that. The same goes for Ward.

    Edelman doesn't have the stats, relative to other players, but he definitely fits the criteria of NFL myth. He's had so many big moments in the playoffs. They should almost have a separate HOF just for the playoffs, might alleviate some of these issues, and allow recognition of deserving players


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    #5827
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,498 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    AbusesToilets wrote:
    Edelman doesn't have the stats, relative to other players, but he definitely fits the criteria of NFL myth. He's had so many big moments in the playoffs. They should almost have a separate HOF just for the playoffs, might alleviate some of these issues, and allow recognition of deserving players
    He doesn't have the regular season stats you mean, he certainly has the postseason stats.
    Which is more important? Doing it in important knockout games or regular season games.
    I think if you are behind only Jerry Rice in yards and receptions in the postseason then you certainly have to be seriously considered for the Hall.


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    #5828
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,632 ✭✭✭nerd69


    eagle eye wrote: »
    He doesn't have the regular season stats you mean, he certainly has the postseason stats.
    Which is more important? Doing it in important knockout games or regular season games.
    I think if you are behind only Jerry Rice in yards and receptions in the postseason then you certainly have to be seriously considered for the Hall.

    He just played a lot of postseason games because he played with the brady bb pats


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    #5829
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 39,437 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    eagle eye wrote: »
    He doesn't have the regular season stats you mean, he certainly has the postseason stats.
    Which is more important? Doing it in important knockout games or regular season games.
    I think if you are behind only Jerry Rice in yards and receptions in the postseason then you certainly have to be seriously considered for the Hall.

    Except Jerry rice isn’t in the HOF for just his postseason play though now is he ? No, he’s in there for his entire body of work over his career. We can all find ways to using certain stats to make a point. We won’t know how much his career means until 2026 and we see where he gets to in the process of that years class.


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    #5830
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,632 ✭✭✭nerd69


    At the very least I'm glad to have learned that this is not just talking heads nonsense and people do think he has a shot


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    #5831
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 39,437 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    nerd69 wrote: »
    At the very least I'm glad to have learned that this is not just talking heads nonsense and people do think he has a shot

    Any player of note has a shot nerd but it’s a bit early to be getting this deep into whether he will get in or not when he’s just announced it and as far as I know hasn’t made it official. Let’s see what happens.


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    #5832
    Shedite27
    Registered Users Posts: 9,363 ✭✭✭Shedite27


    eagle eye wrote: »
    He doesn't have the regular season stats you mean, he certainly has the postseason stats.
    Which is more important? Doing it in important knockout games or regular season games.
    I think if you are behind only Jerry Rice in yards and receptions in the postseason then you certainly have to be seriously considered for the Hall.
    Yeah you have to look past the stats sometimes don't ya. It's all well and good knocking up massive yards, but there has to be more weighting to doing it in the playoffs.


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    #5833
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,498 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Itssoeasy wrote:
    Except Jerry rice isn’t in the HOF for just his postseason play though now is he ? No, he’s in there for his entire body of work over his career. We can all find ways to using certain stats to make a point. We won’t know how much his career means until 2026 and we see where he gets to in the process of that years class.

    Jerry Rice is the GOAT receiver, regular season or postseason.
    I'm saying if you are second to him in either than you have to be seriously considered for the Hall.


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    #5834
    Blut2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,904 ✭✭✭Blut2


    Kgd2Y6c.jpg

    Half joking, but still. Edelman was undoubtedly a very good receiver, but with such a talented cast around him it does take away from it. I don't think he (or Jordy, unfortunately) are HOF quality.


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    #5835
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,498 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Blut2 wrote:
    Half joking, but still. Edelman was undoubtedly a very good receiver, but with such a talented cast around him it does take away from it. I don't think he (or Jordy, unfortunately) are HOF quality.
    Can you compare their playoff stats?


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    #5836
    raze_them_all_
    Registered Users Posts: 6,744 ✭✭✭raze_them_all_


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Can you compare their playoff stats?
    Playoff stats mean even less for me tbh edelman bar last year I don't think missed a post season so had more opportunities than a lot of players.


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    #5837
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,632 ✭✭✭nerd69


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Can you compare their playoff stats?

    If you add in playoff stats he's still behind nelson is that what your asking?

    Per playoff game if you exclude the regular season he may or may not be slightly ahead I'd wager per game they may be the same


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    #5838
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,006 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    raze_them_all_ wrote: »
    Playoff stats mean even less for me tbh edelman bar last year I don't think missed a post season so had more opportunities than a lot of players.

    Yeah, carving out 'playoff stats' is another very weird US sport thing to do - especially cumulative stats for a specific player that plays such a small part in the overall team success.

    I can maybe reach to understand it for other US sports when the team is small and/or they play in an extremely long season (which can really mess with data) but for football, when teams are so large and the regular season has only been 16 games long, it makes absolutely no sense.

    Being a PED cheat isn't going to help Edelman's case either. I know many presume that most of the league is doing similar but it can put off voters even if it wasn't such a huge reach in the first place.


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    #5839
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,632 ✭✭✭nerd69


    Foxtrol wrote: »
    Yeah, carving out 'playoff stats' is another very weird US sport thing to do - especially cumulative stats for a specific player that plays such a small part in the overall team success.

    I can maybe reach to understand it for other US sports when the team is small and/or they play in an extremely long season (which can really mess with data) but for football, when teams are so large and the regular season has only been 16 games long, it makes absolutely no sense.

    Being a PED cheat isn't going to help Edelman's case either. I know many presume that most of the league is doing similar but it can put off voters even if it wasn't such a huge reach in the first place.

    Not to mention if he was megatron for example he probably moves at some point and has less games. His being an average reciever that happened to fit well into the pats offence got him more playoff appearances.


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    #5840
    heyjude
    Registered Users Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭heyjude


    Edelman was never considered an elite WR during his career as evidenced by his never being named all pro or making a pro bowl, yet somehow his 3 Superbowl rings seem to have led to the idea that he deserved Hall of Fame consideration. Yet there are other more deserving candidates to be considered before Edelman.

    Compare the career stats for Cliff Branch(who played in a less pass friendly era)

    Cliff Branch 501 rec - 8,685 yds - 67 TDs. 20 career playoffs appearances - 3 Superbowl wins and held playoff rec and TD records until surpassed by Jerry Rice. 4 time Pro bowler, 3 time first team All-Pro, led NFL in receiving yards once and in TDs twice

    Julian Edelman 620 rec - 6,822 yds - 40 TDs(36 receiving and 4 returns). 19 career playoffs appearances . 3 Superbowl wins. Never made Pro Bowl or All Pro. Never led league in receiving yards or TDs

    Yet despite his career stats comparing favourably with other pro bowl receivers of his era, Branch has never even been a Hall of Fame finalist(he has a semi finalist in 2004 and 2010), so if his 3 Superbowl rings, 4 Pro bowls, 3 all pro and superior yardage and TD totals weren't enough to even be a Hall of Fame finalist, then Edelman should be a long way down the list for consideration.


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    #5841
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,498 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    nerd69 wrote:
    Per playoff game if you exclude the regular season he may or may not be slightly ahead I'd wager per game they may be the same
    Nelson played 13 times in the playoffs catching 54 balls for 688 yards.
    Edelman played 19 games with 118 catches for 1442 yards.


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    #5842
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,498 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Cliff Branch should be in the hall, it's a disgrace that he isn't.


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    #5843
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,498 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    And Branch, Gronk, Andre Reed and Reggie Wayne all played more playoff games than Edelman and have less receiving yards


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    #5844
    Xavi6
    Registered Users Posts: 40,858 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    Alex Smith is retiring. It’s remarkable that he came back from one of the worst injuries I’ve seen in sports and was a functional QB with Washington. I liked him a lot at the Chiefs too. He was a solid but unspectacular pair of hands and was a good influence on Mahomes by all accounts.

    16 years is a very good innings. Video announcement below.

    https://www.instagram.com/tv/CN2j9LohMi4/?igshid=8njua9vg1ueq


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    #5845
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,006 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    Alex Smith is retiring. It’s remarkable that he came back from one of the worst injuries I’ve seen in sports and was a functional QB with Washington. I liked him a lot at the Chiefs too. He was a solid but unspectacular pair of hands and was a good influence on Mahomes by all accounts.

    16 years is a very good innings. Video announcement below.

    https://www.instagram.com/tv/CN2j9LohMi4/?igshid=8njua9vg1ueq

    He dealt with a lot of crap during his time at the 49ers as well, always a great pro. Glad he has retired though, last season was very uncomfortable to watch.


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    #5846
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,006 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Watson's lawyers releasing their response to the claims against him.

    https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1384176998394712064?s=20


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    #5847
    raze_them_all_
    Registered Users Posts: 6,744 ✭✭✭raze_them_all_


    Foxtrol wrote: »
    Watson's lawyers releasing their response to the claims against him.

    https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1384176998394712064?s=20

    If they have actual texts and **** like they claim this will only end in a win for watson


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    #5848
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,632 ✭✭✭nerd69


    eagle eye wrote: »
    And Branch, Gronk, Andre Reed and Reggie Wayne all played more playoff games than Edelman and have less receiving yards

    Sounds like a prime candidate for the playoffs hall if fame


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    #5849
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 39,437 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    raze_them_all_ wrote: »
    If they have actual texts and **** like they claim this will only end in a win for watson

    Which explains why he wants this to go to trial.


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    #5850
    raze_them_all_
    Registered Users Posts: 6,744 ✭✭✭raze_them_all_


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Nelson played 13 times in the playoffs catching 54 balls for 688 yards.
    Edelman played 19 games with 118 catches for 1442 yards.

    So what you are saying is with only 8 games extra olayed Nelson grades out better over all??

    I'm a packers fan and I don't think Nelson deserves in


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    #5851
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,498 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    nerd69 wrote:
    Sounds like a prime candidate for the playoffs hall if fame

    There's only one hall of fame. If you split it into regular season and playoffs then nobody would care about the regular season one.


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