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Abdur Rashid refuses to apologise to 6 year old that he abused.

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Comments

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    Did judges not resist any sort of minimum sentencing brought in before?

    Yes, and it is a huge issue in the US at the moment where judges are actively resisting minimum sentencing.

    I would disagree, if they cannot use common sense then they must be told to lock child molesters et al up for a significant amount of time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,907 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Shouldn't citizenship being conferred on a person be able to be removed in the event that they commit a serious crime ?
    Why would you impose this sanction on naturalised citizens if you don't impose it on citizens by birth or descent?

    We're a republic. We have equal citizens - not first-class citizens and second-class citizens.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,060 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    Why would you impose this sanction on naturalised citizens if you don't impose it on citizens by birth or descent?

    We're a republic. We have equal citizens - not first-class citizens and second-class citizens.


    Except it is possible to revoke citizenship for naturalised citizens so they are second class citizens as you describe it. Just not for this particular reason unfortunately.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭ Aydin Shy Mumps


    Except it is possible to revoke citizenship for naturalised citizens so they are second class citizens as you describe it. Just not for this particular reason unfortunately.
    is it? What happens if they are from a country which disallows dual citizenship, and they had to renounce their previous citizenship to become naturalised? They would no longer be citizens of any country.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    Why would you impose this sanction on naturalised citizens if you don't impose it on citizens by birth or descent?

    We're a republic. We have equal citizens - not first-class citizens and second-class citizens.

    Who said I wouldn't ?

    Larry Murphy and that O'Dwyer bloke to name but two could happily be kicked out and passports removed and I'd not shed a tear.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,060 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    is it? What happens if they are from a country which disallows dual citizenship, and they had to renounce their previous citizenship to become naturalised? They would no longer be citizens of any country.


    It is.


    http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/citizenship-revocation


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Mutant z


    Cultural enrichment truly at its finest.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭ Aydin Shy Mumps


    According to that citizenship could be revoked for failing to follow the law - it is part of their duty of fidelity to the nation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,060 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    According to that citizenship could be revoked for failing to follow the law - it is part of their duty of fidelity to the nation.


    I think that is stretching the intention of the law somewhat.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    Mutant z wrote: »
    Cultural enrichment truly at its finest.


    Has this phrase ever actually been used non-sarcastically by someone not right wing?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Has this phrase ever actually been used non-sarcastically by someone not right wing?

    I've seen it often enough tbh

    eg see:

    https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/press-centre/press-releases/20180926-leas-chathaoirleach-launches-45-stories-exhibition-in-leinster-house-highlighting-eu-benefits-to-ireland/

    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/editorial/1916-2016-a-proclamation-for-our-age-1.2587004

    Sometime used interchangeably with the term 'diversity' ....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,737 ✭✭✭Yer Da sells Avon


    Has this phrase ever actually been used non-sarcastically by someone not right wing?

    Seems to be one of their go-to phrases nowadays, whenever a crime is committed by someone who belongs to whichever group they happen to be hating at that particular moment in time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Seems to be one of their go-to phrases nowadays, whenever a crime is committed by someone who belongs to whichever group they happen to be hating at that particular moment in time.


    Doesn't sound much better no matter which group is using it imo.


  • Registered Users Posts: 229 ✭✭John Sacrimoni




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,776 ✭✭✭up for anything


    AH is full of Russian bots registered in the last couple of months posting the things that apparently most of us would like to post according to them or else it's some kind of concerted effort by some as yet unknown rightwing group fomenting general ill-feeling towards various minorities. What's also strange is the number of posters registered a couple of years ago with a very low post count who come out and agree with the new regs. Call me suspicious but...

    ETA: To keep on topic it's not a normal thing for child abusers to apologise to their victims especially when they are claiming innocence.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    AH is full of Russian bots registered in the last couple of months posting the things that apparently most of us would like to post according to them or else it's some kind of concerted effort by some as yet unknown rightwing group fomenting general ill-feeling towards various minorities. What's also strange is the number of posters registered a couple of years ago with a very low post count who come out and agree with the new regs. Call me suspicious but...

    ETA: To keep on topic it's not a normal thing for child abusers to apologise to their victims especially when they are claiming innocence.

    Not in either camp but russian bots conspiacy theory - For real? :eek:


  • Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭ Spleerbun


    gozunda wrote: »
    Not in either camp but russian bots conspiacy theory - For real? :eek:

    Everyone knows the Russians see us Irish as their most serious threat to world domination, they'll do anything to destabilise us


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,188 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Anyone who is given citizenship and then commits a serious offense like in this case should have their citizenship revoked and sent back to their own country.

    Unfortunately we can't deport nonces who are born here but this fella should be sent packing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 229 ✭✭John Sacrimoni


    Anyone who is given citizenship and then commits a serious offense like in this case should have their citizenship revoked and sent back to their own country.

    Unfortunately we can't deport nonces who are born here but this fella should be sent packing.

    100%, i dont see why anyone would have a problem sending people like this back to their country of origin. It can be done, but the will isnt there to do it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    Spleerbun wrote: »
    Everyone knows the Russians see us Irish as their most serious threat to world domination, they'll do anything to destabilise us


    We're an easy target after the UK to further destabilise the EU. There's plenty of obvious bot activity around Irexit stuff. Ireland has actually become quite a beacon with our changes to the constitution in the last few years. Gay marriage, blasphemy and abortion changes. Even the water charge fiasco was a shot to the right wing agenda. The people forcing a change in the government through protest? It's not a standard thing across the world. Ireland is definitely a target.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,873 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09



    Who said I wouldn't ?

    Larry Murphy and that O'Dwyer bloke to name but two could happily be kicked out and passports removed and I'd not shed a tear.
    Shere would they go? If they're citizens of nowhere and you take their passport, then they're stick in Ireland.

    Your suggestion's edgyness exceeds it's cleverness.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,776 ✭✭✭up for anything


    gozunda wrote: »
    Not in either camp but russian bots conspiacy theory - For real? :eek:


    Maybe neither. I don't read threads here as much as I used to because I get too impotently angry or bored with the content and find I pull my posts before submitting because they're not worth wasting the bandwidth so I maybe I am seeing a trend where none exists but I usually have fairly good instincts and something is not quite right. In another life time I would have created a spreadsheet but now, meh!


  • Registered Users Posts: 517 ✭✭✭yoke


    100%, i dont see why anyone would have a problem sending people like this back to their country of origin. It can be done, but the will isnt there to do it.

    Doesn’t work like that in the real world, as some people have to give up their previous citizenship upon gaining Irish citizenship depending on the rules of their previous country.

    More importantly, it’s a bad idea because it would deliberately create a 2-tier citizenship where naturalised citizens would not feel like real citizens of the country - you can’t then blame them later for sticking with groups of people from their old country instead and never integrating.

    This guy is an Irish citizen and should be punished as such.

    Perhaps you should instead be campaigning for tougher punishments for all criminals in Ireland in general.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,776 ✭✭✭up for anything


    Spleerbun wrote: »
    Everyone knows the Russians see us Irish as their most serious threat to world domination, they'll do anything to destabilise us

    "Out of the mouth of babes."

    We don't appreciate how special Ireland is these days. The freedoms we have, unlike those previous bastions of liberty but for how long?

    We have, in such a short time, become so far removed from the twaddle below. I know we have Mattie and Ronan but even they would be hard put to voice such crap and yet there's a subtle undercurrent.

    Who would have thought that there could be enough Russian interference in a US election to help change the outcome or at least destabilise it enough to see Trump elected? It only takes one rabid witchfinder general or one (in fact, two) 'mad' monk to become a beacon for change.



    http://churchandstate.org.uk/2017/04/oklahoma-republican-declares-that-rape-is-the-will-of-god/?fbclid=IwAR2VlvoIT6GDp5abV3Hx_tniE58d624WEI_wmWxxbZuq5ch69DLR_9O0JWI


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    yoke wrote: »
    Doesn’t work like that in the real world, as some people have to give up their previous citizenship upon gaining Irish citizenship depending on the rules of their previous country.

    More importantly, it’s a bad idea because it would deliberately create a 2-tier citizenship where naturalised citizens would not feel like real citizens of the country - you can’t then blame them later for sticking with groups of people from their old country instead and never integrating.

    This guy is an Irish citizen and should be punished as such.

    Perhaps you should instead be campaigning for tougher punishments for all criminals in Ireland in general.

    Fair enough. But how do you successfully persuade an individual who is convicted of such offenses that such behaviour is neither accepted or legal in their new country?

    The case in point here is that the individual although convicted and admiting to intimately handling the child but apparently does not believe they did anything wrong?

    Those brought up in countries with cultures which for example have deep-rooted gender inequalities often face the biggest problems integrating with western cultures and laws. Afaik there is no mechanism I am aware of in any western country that can prevent citizens "sticking with groups of people from their old country instead and never integrating".


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    I think we are all familiar with the case - sadly - of the young boy raped by the alleged sylum seeker/refugee who was promptly let off as it was "a sexual emergency".

    When you come from a culture/background/faith where you see this as normal - more and more incidents are going to happen.

    Will there be a TD flashing knickers or other garments in a few year when the rape figures have skyrocketed in backwater parts of the country due to the influx of people like this ? Doubtful.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭Gravelly


    Are mosques in Ireland Garda vetting those who teach children? Did this guy pass? If he returns to the mosque will he be allowed to “teach” again?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    I think we are all familiar with the case - sadly - of the young boy raped by the alleged sylum seeker/refugee who was promptly let off as it was "a sexual emergency".


    A quick Google would indicate that this is a complete misrepresentation of what happened. He was not "let off as it was a sexual emergency". He had the rape conviction overturned as it had not been shown he knew there was no consent. He was retried on that and received a larger sentence. He was still in jail on the sexual assault of a minor charge. His argument of "sexual emergency" wasn't accepted at all.


    The court did not dispute the “watertight” evidence that some form of sexual abuse had taken place during the incident in a toilet cubicle at the Theresienbad pool in December 2015. But in Austrian law, prosecutors must prove that an attacker is fully aware the act is nonconsensual for a more severe rape conviction to hold.



    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/austria-swimming-pool-rape-theresienbad-vienna-iraqi-refugee-a7473441.html


    Can I ask if you deliberately misrepresented that or did you simply not know? If it's the latter then where do you hear these nonsense claims?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,173 ✭✭✭Billy Mays


    Shocked that you haven't had an answer yet


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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,066 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    gozunda wrote: »
    Fair enough. But how do you successfully persuade an individual who is convicted of such offenses that such behaviour is neither accepted or legal in their new country?

    The case in point here is that the individual although convicted and admiting to intimately handling the child but apparently does not believe they did anything wrong?

    Those brought up in countries with cultures which for example have deep-rooted gender inequalities often face the biggest problems integrating with western cultures and laws. Afaik there is no mechanism I am aware of in any western country that can prevent citizens "sticking with groups of people from their old country instead and never integrating".

    I may have missed it but didn't he claim he never did it?

    As for thinking it's not wrong, I think a lot of criminals do that. Remember in the vast majority of the mulsim world, child abuse is seen as wrong. You'd have to go to the most backwards parts of the world to find anywhere that thinks it's acceptable.


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