Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Immigrant Caravan's WTF?!

11213141618

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 199 ✭✭Il Fascista


    batgoat wrote: »
    Refugees are not an invading force. The US have signed up to conventions on refugees so they are very much so not recognised and have a right to seek asylum. They are not supposed to be tear gassed.

    The asylum seeker narrative is one that only popped up since Trump was elected, it was an argument rarely made previously because most of these people aren't even trying to apply for asylum because they know they'd get rejected. It was even reported by MSNBC:



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    I don't support anti-immigration politicians, but as a matter of national sovereignty a country should have the absolute right to entirely close its border and accept absolutely no entry whatsoever from non-citizens if it so chooses. This narrative has turned into a "we don't have total autonomy over our own border" from the Democratic side and I find that whole angle of argument highly disturbing.

    I wouldn't support such a move myself, but the idea that a democratic country doesn't have full autonomy over its own land is f*cked up in the extreme.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,094 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    That is a very selective reading.

    I think it is a reading that died in 2008 with the financial crash.

    The free market approach was severely damaged in the eyes of too many, dressing it up as s solidarity or internationalism doesn't change what it is in effect.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Isn't it strange how little news coverage this has been getting since................... oooh, about exactly November 7th, 2018?


  • Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭mammajamma


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Isn't it strange how little news coverage this has been getting since................... oooh, about exactly November 7th, 2018?

    Its easy to think that, and there is always a political angle, on absolutely everything.

    The thing is, it is a real and tangible problem that did come to fruition. And as lauded at the time, has every indication of growing.

    So whats worse? A politically-angled, serious, issue that receives attention for a limited time, or a serious issue that isn't reported upon?

    As usual these days, mass media is lagging behind public opinion. More and more are paying attention to these things, even as the issues are swept under the carpet.

    Cant outrun inevitability. This stuff is going to come to a head, IMO it will be THE issue of this century, obviously intertwined with global warming. We are just at the beginning.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    Either way, it doesn't justify firing tear gas at kids.

    Oh give the sanctimony a rest.

    Dozens of people were shot and killed for throwing rocks at the border patrol during Obama's tenure, many of them were teenagers. Where were all the bleeding heart liberals then?

    From 2013:
    Why is U.S. Border Patrol Shooting Rock-Throwing Teenagers?

    Sixteen-year old Jose Antonio Elena Rodriguez was walking near the U.S.-Mexico border in Nogales, Sonora, Mexico to meet his brother for a late-night snack when he was fatally shot by U.S. Border Patrol agents. An autopsy later showed the body of the teenager had been riddled with 10 bullets that had entered his back and head.

    Mexican officials also said it seemed there were two agents who shot at least 14 times. More than a year later, the U.S. government has yet to issue a public explanation of what happened, or to release stationary video footage, except to allege that he was part of a group throwing rocks at Border Patrol agents who were up on a hill, behind the 60-foot tall border fence.

    This week, the ACLU of New Mexico Regional Center for Border Rights is joining an ACLU delegation and participating as a civil society member in a review of the U.S. record on human rights under the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, in Geneva, Switzerland.

    A chief concern presented to the U.N. Human Rights Committee has been the rash of lethal use-of-force incidents at the border, including the death of Elena Rodriguez. Since January 2010, at least 28 civilians have died following an encounter with U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP)personnel; 27 died as the result of use of force.

    These deaths include numerous cases of individuals being shot in the back, across international borders, and in response to alleged rock throwing. One-third of the deaths are of U.S. citizens and one-third of minors, including three boys aged 15, 16 and 17, who were fatally shot while standing on the Mexican side of the border.

    Were CNN, NBC, NY Times, SNL, The Daily Show etc etc all on Obama's back, night after night, when this was going on? Were they fcuk. In fact, in the above article I just linked to, Obama isn't even mentioned! Yet today when someone bad happens at the border the liberal media (worldwide) act like Trump personally sanctioned it. Can you imagine Time magazine photoshopping one of those dead teenagers onto their cover with Obama hovering over them holding a gun, with the caption 'Welcome to America'? Course not. Would never have happened but yet it's seemingly perfectly fine to photoshop a crying little girl on to it with Trump hovering her suggesting he was happy to see her in despair.

    In one of Obama's last addresses to the nation he cited the fact that children were being mistreated at the border ("ripping children from their parent's arms" he called it) and also suggested that he'd support deporting any immigrant who had illegally crossed the border in the last five years. All things which liberals, and the liberal media, have tried to pretend weren't uttered by the man, and to be fair..... they've been largely successful in doing so. Credit were credit's due. Propaganda works.

    Hell, even Obama himself has been acting like he didn't make similar decisions to Trump when he was POTUS and either he's hoping everyone has a short memory or he just knows that liberals won't call him on it. Maybe a bit of both. Here's a good example of it:





    But yet, despite these self righteous remarks, guess who it was that also sent troops to the border:




    That's just one example. In this clip you'll see many remarks (with regards to immigration) being made by Bill Clinton and Barack which Trump has been lambasted for saying in recent times... quite often by these very individuals, ironically enough.

    So enough with using every single damn negative thing that happens in the States as yet another opportunity to berate Trump. Just be honest and say you hate him because of his political views and not because he has "gassed kids", or "committed treason" or "sided with the Russians" or whatever the hell it is today that has you all up in arms.

    Trust me, if he does something which is disgraceful or contemptible, I'll be just as critical as anyone else, but so far, I really don't see him doing all that much wrong, or at least nothing remotely close to what he would need to have done in the last two years to have warranted the non stop whinging from the liberal media which we've witnessed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    Oh give the sanctimony a rest.

    Only if you give your agenda a rest.
    Dozens of people were shot and killed for throwing rocks at the border patrol during Obama's tenure, many of them were teenagers. Where were all the bleeding heart liberals then?

    From 2013:



    Were CNN, NBC, NY Times, SNL, The Daily Show etc etc all on Obama's back, night after night, when this was going on? Were they fcuk. In fact, in the above article I just linked to, Obama isn't even mentioned! Yet today when someone bad happens at the border the liberal media (worldwide) act like Trump personally sanctioned it. Can you imagine Time magazine photoshopping one of those dead teenagers onto their cover with Obama hovering over them holding a gun, with the caption 'Welcome to America'? Course not. Would never have happen but yet it's seemingly perfectly fine to photoshop a crying little girl on to it with Trump.

    In fact in one of Obama's last addresses to the nation he cited the fact that children were being mistreated at the border ("ripping children from their parent's arms" he called it) and also suggested that he support deporting any immigrant who had illegally crossed the border in the last five years. All things which liberals, and the liberal media, have tried to pretend weren't uttered by the man, and to be fair, they've been largely successful in doing so. Credit were credit's due. Propaganda works.

    Hell, even Obama himself has been acting like he didn't make similar decisions to Trump when he was POTUS and either he's hoping everyone has a short memory or he just knows the liberals won't call him on it (maybe a bit of both). Here's a good example of it:





    But yet, despite these self righteous remarks, guess who it was that also sent troops to the border:




    That's just one example. In this clip you'll see many remarks (with regards to immigration) being made by Bill Clinton and Barack which Trump has been lambasted for saying in recent times... quite often by these very individuals, ironically enough.

    So enough with using every single damn negative thing that happens in the States as yet another opportunity to berate Trump. Just be honest and say you hate him because of his political views and not because he has "gassed kids", or "committed treason" or "sided with the Russians" or whatever the hell it is today that has you all up in arms.


    So you think they were justified in tear gassing kids?

    Trust me, if he does something which is disgraceful or contemptible, I'll be just as critical as everyone else, but so far, I really don't see him doing all that much wrong, or at least nothing remotely close to what he would need to have done in the last two years to have warranted the non stop whinging from the liberal media.


    Well that's just a reflection of your own moral compass.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭Dannyriver


    Oh give the sanctimony a rest.

    Dozens of people were shot and killed for throwing rocks at the border patrol during Obama's tenure, many of them were teenagers. Where were all the bleeding heart liberals then?

    From 2013:



    Were CNN, NBC, NY Times, SNL, The Daily Show etc etc all on Obama's back, night after night, when this was going on? Were they fcuk. In fact, in the above article I just linked to, Obama isn't even mentioned! Yet today when someone bad happens at the border the liberal media (worldwide) act like Trump personally sanctioned it. Can you imagine Time magazine photoshopping one of those dead teenagers onto their cover with Obama hovering over them holding a gun, with the caption 'Welcome to America'? Course not. Would never have happened but yet it's seemingly perfectly fine to photoshop a crying little girl on to it with Trump hovering her suggesting he was happy to see her in despair.

    In one of Obama's last addresses to the nation he cited the fact that children were being mistreated at the border ("ripping children from their parent's arms" he called it) and also suggested that he'd support deporting any immigrant who had illegally crossed the border in the last five years. All things which liberals, and the liberal media, have tried to pretend weren't uttered by the man, and to be fair..... they've been largely successful in doing so. Credit were credit's due. Propaganda works.

    Hell, even Obama himself has been acting like he didn't make similar decisions to Trump when he was POTUS and either he's hoping everyone has a short memory or he just knows that liberals won't call him on it. Maybe a bit of both. Here's a good example of it:





    But yet, despite these self righteous remarks, guess who it was that also sent troops to the border:




    That's just one example. In this clip you'll see many remarks (with regards to immigration) being made by Bill Clinton and Barack which Trump has been lambasted for saying in recent times... quite often by these very individuals, ironically enough.

    So enough with using every single damn negative thing that happens in the States as yet another opportunity to berate Trump. Just be honest and say you hate him because of his political views and not because he has "gassed kids", or "committed treason" or "sided with the Russians" or whatever the hell it is today that has you all up in arms.

    Trust me, if he does something which is disgraceful or contemptible, I'll be just as critical as anyone else, but so far, I really don't see him doing all that much wrong, or at least nothing remotely close to what he would need to have done in the last two years to have warranted the non stop whinging from the liberal media which we've witnessed.

    What aspects of his leadership/policy/attitudes/would you berate now that you've addressed the fact that 'gassing kids' 'treason' and 'siding with the Russians' is ok with you?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭Duffy the Vampire Slayer


    Trust me, if he does something which is disgraceful or contemptible, I'll be just as critical as anyone else, but so far, I really don't see him doing all that much wrong, or at least nothing remotely close to what he would need to have done in the last two years to have warranted the non stop whinging from the liberal media which we've witnessed.

    I suppose open appeals to racial hatred and peddling of dog whistle conspiracies weren't enough to irk Pete.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭TeaBagMania


    So you think they were justified in tear gassing kids?

    Maybe if their parents used better judgement than bringing their kids with them to invade a country they wouldn't have been in the line of fire.

    Blame the parents not the US for defending its borders


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Maybe if their parents used better judgement than bringing their kids with them to invade a country they wouldn't have been in the line of fire.

    Blame the parents not the US for defending its borders

    What is your opinion on the US citizens and their children who have been were ripped away from them, and who they might never see again given how many of those children have 'gone missing' in care?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭TeaBagMania


    Billy, i don't understand your question, US citizens had their kids taken? if so, when and where


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,027 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    I suppose open appeals to racial hatred and peddling of dog whistle conspiracies weren't enough to irk Pete.
    As Pete notes propaganda works. Look, Trump is a puffed up boor, but as far as policies towards the rest of the world go, the only difference between him and Obama and previous professional politicians is they had far better PR and more public restraint. They kissed the right babies and smiled the good smile. Obama rode into the White House on the colour of his skin and got a fair bit of leeway for it too*. He also came across as very personable. I mean this was a lacklustre senator who scoops the big prize and FFS gets a Nobel Peace Prize, before he had done a damn thing. He was also cool and the gang with increasing the use of drones with their "collateral damage" included.

    In the end there's little practical downrange diff between the current guy and the last and the next will be more of the same.




    *this is not to deny the very real grassroots genuine need and support and nay relief for that, especially considering the parlous state of race politics in that country. He got elected on hope.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    Maybe if their parents used better judgement than bringing their kids with them to invade a country they wouldn't have been in the line of fire.

    Blame the parents not the US for defending its borders


    No. If someone hurts a child I blame the person who hurts the child.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,027 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    No. If someone hurts a child I blame the person who hurts the child.
    So take a scenario where a kid has a bomb strapped to him or her and marches towards an army checkpoint and gets shot. That's the soldier's fault?

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭TeaBagMania


    Agreed Wibbs, its almost like these parents brought their kids to what they knew was going to become a war zone then use them as a shield, because no one would ever hurt a child
    yep parents to blame

    On a separate note, check out google maps, the Texas border is closer to Mexico City than Tijuana, why did they travel three times farther than they had too?


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    Central America is the world's toilet and you couldn't blame anyone for wanting to leave.

    But you can't go about it in this manner, it's ludicrous behaviour. The law applies to everyone.

    Those shoving children in front of border guards should be utterly ashamed of themselves. Vile.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    Wibbs wrote: »
    So take a scenario where a kid has a bomb strapped to him or her and marches towards an army checkpoint and gets shot. That's the soldier's fault?


    No Wibbs, I think I'd give him a pass there because he's unfortunately been placed in the position that he has to choose between the childs life and the victims of the bomb. You might call that the exception to the rule. Completely irrelevant to what we are discussing of course but seeing as how it's otherwise indefensible I understand why you needed to go to such an extreme.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    Central America is the world's toilet and you couldn't blame anyone for wanting to leave.

    But you can't go about it in this manner, it's ludicrous behaviour. The law applies to everyone.

    Those shoving children in front of border guards should be utterly ashamed of themselves. Vile.

    But pepper spraying the children doesn't seem to count or what? Or taking children away from their parents and putting them in camps?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭Duffy the Vampire Slayer


    Wibbs wrote: »
    As Pete notes propaganda works. Look, Trump is a puffed up boor, but as far as policies towards the rest of the world go, the only difference between him and Obama and previous professional politicians is they had far better PR and more public restraint. They kissed the right babies and smiled the good smile. Obama rode into the White House on the colour of his skin and got a fair bit of leeway for it too*. He also came across as very personable. I mean this was a lacklustre senator who scoops the big prize and FFS gets a Nobel Peace Prize, before he had done a damn thing. He was also cool and the gang with increasing the use of drones with their "collateral damage" included.

    In the end there's little practical downrange diff between the current guy and the last and the next will be more of the same.




    *this is not to deny the very real grassroots genuine need and support and nay relief for that, especially considering the parlous state of race politics in that country. He got elected on hope.

    I would actually agree with much of that. But I still think Trump is utterly toxic. His entire movement is fascistic and running on hatred.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭Duffy the Vampire Slayer


    It's funny to hear people describe Mexico as a safe country.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16 uptothetop


    That is crazy! Why their own government won't do something about that? That's unbelievable! And what is worst, if US, Mexico, etc will do anything about that, like let these people into their own territory, there will be plenty and plenty more of these "immigrants". Look what Angie Merkel did. She brought as many immigrants as she could, mostly to France. Then she gave up, she quit, she is gone, that is not her problem anymore. Then these immigrants made president of France, Macron quit. Now the whole country is destabilized. France's own head of country cowardly gave up the seat and is gone just like Angie. isn't that wired?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭fxotoole


    mammajamma wrote: »


    This is just kerrraaazy!

    I've heard mention of it over the last few days but only read into it tonight. According to different sources there are between 4 and 15 thousand people marching toward the border of the united states, with more joining in each day.

    This particular caravan is from Honduras in the main, but already there are apparently several other copy-cat caravans starting from Salvador and other places too.

    Looking at videos of the marching lines it just seems apocalyptic. Whats going to happen here, and more importantly, whats the knock-on effect going forward? Is there going to be violence at the border and people killed en masse (already many clashes along other countries borders)?

    Why are they walking through several safe countries if they just want to escape so-called immediate oppression?

    If the united states lets them in, surely that's the signal for the whole of central and south America to just walk in and set up shop. What signal will that send about Europe, if any?

    This is going to end really badly. Its so out of control, I don't even have a suggestion as to how to fix it.

    Does anyone else see this ending in a good way?


    Not having your intelligence services constantly interfering in soveirgn countries affairs would be a start


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭Duffy the Vampire Slayer


    uptothetop wrote: »
    That is crazy! Why their own government won't do something about that? That's unbelievable! And what is worst, if US, Mexico, etc will do anything about that, like let these people into their own territory, there will be plenty and plenty more of these "immigrants". Look what Angie Merkel did. She brought as many immigrants as she could, mostly to France. Then she gave up, she quit, she is gone, that is not her problem anymore. Then these immigrants made president of France, Macron quit. Now the whole country is destabilized. France's own head of country cowardly gave up the seat and is gone just like Angie. isn't that wired?

    The only thing that's wired is you, with the drivel you're spouting.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,601 ✭✭✭Nermal


    No. If someone hurts a child I blame the person who hurts the child.

    Pedophrasty.

    https://medium.com/incerto/pedophrasty-bigoteering-and-other-modern-scams-c84bd70a29e8


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Billy, i don't understand your question, US citizens had their kids taken? if so, when and where
    What is your opinion on the Trump administration kidnapping children not just from migrants, but from US citizens? And what is your opinion on these children of US citizens (along with over one and a half thousand children of migrants) just mysteriously "going missing"?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭TeaBagMania


    Billy86 wrote: »
    What is your opinion on the Trump administration kidnapping children not just from migrants, but from US citizens? And what is your opinion on these children of US citizens (along with over one and a half thousand children of migrants) just mysteriously "going missing"?

    Looks like Fake News and the CNN = Communist News Network


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Looks like Fake News and the CNN = Communist News Network
    So you're fine with children of US citizens being kidnapped, drugged, tortured and "going missing" but don't have the courage to just come out and say it. To be honest, this is exactly what I expected you to reply with as it's a standard practice for cultists to jam their fingers in their ears and pretend not to hear what is inconvenient - the admission admitting they "might have" taken children of US citizens are direct quotes from them, and the link to that is not even from CNN.

    Here are some more links for you to pretend not to have seen:
    https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-administration-family-separation-us-citizen-child-separated-2018-7
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jul/11/us-immigration-family-separations-doj-us-citizens


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭TeaBagMania


    Total BS from a typical libtard, you should seriously consider moving to commifornia
    Maybe you could save all the kids from CNN


Advertisement