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Moving Central Heating Controller

  • 01-04-2020 2:33pm
    #1
    funkey_monkey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,052 ✭✭✭


    Hi,

    As per the title, parents are looking to install a new freezer and the central heating controls are directly behind the only suitable location for it.

    Currently they have a chest freezer which is only counter top height - so is no problem. They now want to replace this with a taller unit - so they have asked if I can move the controls up the wall.

    I've not checked what way the wires have been routed to the controller, but the controller and its switched spur would both require moving. I think this would be a sizeable job and one I would like to avoid if at all possible.

    So, my question is this - can I get anything which allow the controller to remain in situ but be controlled remotely? Obviously I'd have to put some bump stops around it to prevent moving of the freezer from damaging it.

    The current controller is an EPH R37-HW C1646B: https://www.ephcontrols.com/section/3-zone-programmer-2/


    Any ideas as to how this could be done without installing something that is too complicated for retired folk to use?


    Thanks.


«1

Comments

  • #2
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,604 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    If for example the controller is half way down the wall. Why not pull them out and move them left or right higher up the wall depending on the lenght of cable. This would be the simplest option with little changes.


  • #3
    funkey_monkey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,052 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    Left - X (cloak rack)
    Right - X ( High level units plus sockets)
    Up - ? (Limits height options for freezer - will only be able to get a mid sized unit)

    I need to check how the cables are routed. I'd rather not have to joint them in order to move the controller and rewiring from their devices is out of the question. Plus I don't want to have external conduit piping the cables up to the new location.
    It's a relatively new build house and I'd rather not having wiring in it which looks like something from a shed or garage - albeit most of it would be hidden behind the freezer it would still be an option I'd like to avoid if at all possible within a feasible amount.


  • #4
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,604 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Sounds like youve ample space, Cloak rack ? right behind it if its freestanding or beside it if its wall mounted. external mounting would be grand if the freezer is behind it. You only have to come out as far as the side of the freezer. This unit wouldnt be touched often if the schedule is set correctly


  • #5
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,209 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    funkey_monkey wrote: »
    Left - X (cloak rack)
    Right - X ( High level units plus sockets)
    Up - ? (Limits height options for freezer - will only be able to get a mid sized unit)

    I need to check how the cables are routed. I'd rather not have to joint them in order to move the controller and rewiring from their devices is out of the question. Plus I don't want to have external conduit piping the cables up to the new location.
    It's a relatively new build house and I'd rather not having wiring in it which looks like something from a shed or garage - albeit most of it would be hidden behind the freezer it would still be an option I'd like to avoid if at all possible within a feasible amount.
    You could get a couple of hive thermostats with a wireless thermostat in each heating zone. You could the completely discard the ephprogrammer.

    Please follow site and charter rules. "Resistance is futile"



  • #6
    funkey_monkey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,052 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    Would the Hive be able to handle the oil burner and stove as inputs for CH and HW?


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  • #7
    funkey_monkey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,052 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    listermint wrote: »
    Sounds like youve ample space, Cloak rack ? right behind it if its freestanding or beside it if its wall mounted. external mounting would be grand if the freezer is behind it. You only have to come out as far as the side of the freezer. This unit wouldnt be touched often if the schedule is set correctly

    Clock rack is built in - essentially it is a full length cupboard without a front - so coat hooks on all 3 sides.
    There is solid side separating it and the space where the current freezer is with the controller above it.
    If it was put in there then you'd have to remove all the coats to get at the controller - so the flip front would be broken in no time.


  • #8
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,209 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    funkey_monkey wrote: »
    Would the Hive be able to handle the oil burner and stove as inputs for CH and HW?

    Not the stove. Your eph doesn't control the stove.

    Your eph has hot water and 2 heating zone capability. Is it doing that.

    Please follow site and charter rules. "Resistance is futile"



  • #9
    funkey_monkey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,052 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    Wearb wrote: »
    Not the stove. Your eph doesn't control the stove.

    Your eph has hot water and 2 heating zone capability. Is it doing that.

    Yes.
    So what turns on the dump when the stove (stove has a back boiler) has heated the tank - is that just done via the thermostat on the tank directly linked into the circulation pump?


  • #10
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,209 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    funkey_monkey wrote: »
    Yes.
    So what turns on the dump when the stove (stove has a back boiler) has heated the tank - is that just done via the thermostat on the tank directly linked into the circulation pump?

    There will/should be a thermostat on the pipe betwèen the stove and the cylinder (most likely near the stove) to control that. It should have no connection to EPH.

    It could (but shouldnt) be controlled by the cylinder stat afaik.

    Please follow site and charter rules. "Resistance is futile"



  • #11
    DGOBS
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 3,496 ✭✭✭DGOBS


    You have a programmer with 3 switches, replace with Hive multizone, 3 'smart' switches, nothing technically has changed with your system only you will have removed you wired rooms stats for wireless smart stats.


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  • #12
    Cerco
    Registered Users Posts: 2,032 ✭✭✭Cerco


    Open to correction but with the Hive solution you will need to replace the controller with a receiver. If you place the receiver in the same position, behind freezer, you will not be able to use the receiver button to turn boiler on manually. Button by RGI when I had boiler serviced.
    Might also have WiFi signal issues because of blocking effect of freezer.


  • #13
    Alun
    Registered Users Posts: 21,418 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    Cerco wrote: »
    Open to correction but with the Hive solution you will need to replace the controller with a receiver. If you place the receiver in the same position, behind freezer, you will not be able to use the receiver button to turn boiler on manually. Button by RGI when I had boiler serviced.
    Might also have WiFi signal issues because of blocking effect of freezer.
    I thought that too. BTW the Hive system doesn't use WiFi, it's a ZigBee based system, but you still might have connection issues regardless if it's stuck behin a large metal object like a freezer.

    There's boost buttons for both HW and CH on the thermostat itself though, so not being able to use the buttons on the receiver isn't really an issue.


  • #14
    aido79
    Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 5,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭aido79


    funkey_monkey wrote: »
    Hi,

    As per the title, parents are looking to install a new freezer and the central heating controls are directly behind the only suitable location for it.

    Currently they have a chest freezer which is only counter top height - so is no problem. They now want to replace this with a taller unit - so they have asked if I can move the controls up the wall.

    I've not checked what way the wires have been routed to the controller, but the controller and its switched spur would both require moving. I think this would be a sizeable job and one I would like to avoid if at all possible.

    So, my question is this - can I get anything which allow the controller to remain in situ but be controlled remotely? Obviously I'd have to put some bump stops around it to prevent moving of the freezer from damaging it.

    The current controller is an EPH R37-HW C1646B: https://www.ephcontrols.com/section/3-zone-programmer-2/


    Any ideas as to how this could be done without installing something that is too complicated for retired folk to use?


    Thanks.

    Are they currently mounted on an internal wall? Would it be possible to drill through and mount them on the other side of the wall?


  • #15
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,209 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    Cerco wrote: »
    Open to correction but with the Hive solution you will need to replace the controller with a receiver. If you place the receiver in the same position, behind freezer, you will not be able to use the receiver button to turn boiler on manually. Button by RGI when I had boiler serviced.
    Might also have WiFi signal issues because of blocking effect of freezer.

    Receivers can also be placed at wiring centre or at current stat position. Anywhere you have access to those wires really.

    Please follow site and charter rules. "Resistance is futile"



  • #16
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,604 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    aido79 wrote: »
    Are they currently mounted on an internal wall? Would it be possible to drill through and mount them on the other side of the wall?

    Like it!


  • #17
    funkey_monkey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,052 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    aido79 wrote: »
    Are they currently mounted on an internal wall? Would it be possible to drill through and mount them on the other side of the wall?

    Unfortunately the hot water storage tank is directly behind it, so that is not an option.
    Moving them slightly up the wall will allow them to get a slightly taller freezer ~1450mm tall. However, my preference would be for the controls to be moved away from the location fully so that if desired they could put in a full height freezer - their idea is to have a mid sized one in the house and the old freezer in the garage.
    However, neither of them are getting any younger and I'd prefer to have it all in the one location - it was an oversight during building to locate the controls on the wall where they were planning to locate the freezer as they are currently limited to the small under counter sized unit which hold very little.


  • #18
    aido79
    Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 5,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭aido79


    funkey_monkey wrote: »
    Unfortunately the hot water storage tank is directly behind it, so that is not an option.
    Moving them slightly up the wall will allow them to get a slightly taller freezer ~1450mm tall. However, my preference would be for the controls to be moved away from the location fully so that if desired they could put in a full height freezer - their idea is to have a mid sized one in the house and the old freezer in the garage.
    However, neither of them are getting any younger and I'd prefer to have it all in the one location - it was an oversight during building to locate the controls on the wall where they were planning to locate the freezer as they are currently limited to the small under counter sized unit which hold very little.

    I'm guessing it's a bungalow if the hot water storage tank is behind it?
    Is there space either side of the tank to mount them?


  • #19
    funkey_monkey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,052 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    aido79 wrote: »
    I'm guessing it's a bungalow if the hot water storage tank is behind it?
    Is there space either side of the tank to mount them?

    There is a small bit of space, but there is pipes in the way and it would be a complete mare to wire in. You'd need a very long set of arms to get in at it.

    Yes - bungalow.


  • #20
    aido79
    Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 5,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭aido79


    funkey_monkey wrote: »
    There is a small bit of space, but there is pipes in the way and it would be a complete mare to wire in. You'd need a very long set of arms to get in at it.

    Yes - bungalow.

    I'm assuming being a bungalow all of the walls are block and not stud so placing them on another wall will mean chasing or installing ducting. The benefit to it being a bungalow is that the cables should be easy to reroute from the attic.

    If possible I would advise you to keep the existing devices as I know what it's like with technophobe elderly parents.


  • #21
    funkey_monkey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,052 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    aido79 wrote: »
    I'm assuming being a bungalow all of the walls are block and not stud so placing them on another wall will mean chasing or installing ducting. The benefit to it being a bungalow is that the cables should be easy to reroute from the attic.

    If possible I would advise you to keep the existing devices as I know what it's like with technophobe elderly parents.

    Yes - all internal walls are block. I like the idea of relocating it all to inside the hotpress - I would not even mind the cabling being in trunking in there. Just a question of how to neatly transfer from the ducting into the back of the control unit.

    It's definite non starter for me to start chasing anywhere in the house. It's something I really don't want to do.

    Agree on keeping the controls - they are still getting up to speed on them!


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  • #22
    aido79
    Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 5,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭aido79


    funkey_monkey wrote: »
    Yes - all internal walls are block. I like the idea of relocating it all to inside the hotpress - I would not even mind the cabling being in trunking in there. Just a question of how to neatly transfer from the ducting into the back of the control unit.

    It's definite non starter for me to start chasing anywhere in the house. It's something I really don't want to do.

    Agree on keeping the controls - they are still getting up to speed on them!

    Depending on what way the cables are run it might be possible to just disconnect them, pull them up the wall, drop them down the wall you want them relocated to in trunking and connect them up again. You would just need to mount the controller on a back box to transfer cables from trunking.
    Probably worth going up into the attic to see if you will have enough length on the cables to do that. Worst case scenario you can use a junction box to join but better to avoid this if possible.


  • #23
    funkey_monkey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,052 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    aido79 wrote: »
    Depending on what way the cables are run it might be possible to just disconnect them, pull them up the wall, drop them down the wall you want them relocated to in trunking and connect them up again. You would just need to mount the controller on a back box to transfer cables from trunking.
    Probably worth going up into the attic to see if you will have enough length on the cables to do that. Worst case scenario you can use a junction box to join but better to avoid this if possible.

    So you need a special back box for these? I checked their catalogue but there was nothing there that I seen.
    TBH they haven't mentioned it now for a few days so I'll wait and see what happens. I just want to make sure it is doable before I suggest it.


  • #24
    aido79
    Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 5,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭aido79


    funkey_monkey wrote: »
    So you need a special back box for these? I checked their catalogue but there was nothing there that I seen.
    TBH they haven't mentioned it now for a few days so I'll wait and see what happens. I just want to make sure it is doable before I suggest it.

    A normal double socket back box will do. It'll currently be screwed to a metal version which is the same size. The only difference will be it will be surface mounted so will stick out a bit more.
    Something like this:
    https://ie.rs-online.com/mobile/p/back-boxes/9171637/


  • #25
    funkey_monkey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,052 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    aido79 wrote: »
    A normal double socket back box will do. It'll currently be screwed to a metal version which is the same size. The only difference will be it will be surface mounted so will stick out a bit more.
    Something like this:
    https://ie.rs-online.com/mobile/p/back-boxes/9171637/

    Thanks, I've not stepped out back to check anything yet so didn't realise that. I've got a few of those lying around and miles of white conduit so if needs be I can get this done.


  • #26
    Cerco
    Registered Users Posts: 2,032 ✭✭✭Cerco


    Pretty sure no back box is needed here, Op
    I suggest you read the installation instructions on the link you already posted.
    The controller is mounted on a backplate with screw on connectors for the cables.
    The controller itself, containing the electronics, can be lifted off the back plate.
    Switch off power at consumer unit , open up controller and take a photo of the connections for future reference.


  • #27
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,209 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    Cerco wrote: »
    Pretty sure no back box is needed here, Op
    I suggest you read the installation instructions on the link you already posted.
    The controller is mounted on a backplate with screw on connectors for the cables.
    The controller itself, containing the electronics, can be lifted off the back plate.
    Switch off power at consumer unit , open up controller and take a photo of the connections for future reference.
    Correct only to a point.
    The back plate screws to a box.
    Here's one I prepared earlier :)

    Please follow site and charter rules. "Resistance is futile"



  • #28
    aido79
    Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 5,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭aido79


    Cerco wrote: »
    Pretty sure no back box is needed here, Op
    I suggest you read the installation instructions on the link you already posted.
    The controller is mounted on a backplate with screw on connectors for the cables.
    The controller itself, containing the electronics, can be lifted off the back plate.
    Switch off power at consumer unit , open up controller and take a photo of the connections for future reference.

    It'll look fairly ugly if the wall isn't chased and there's surface conduit running down the wall into the controller if a back box isn't used wouldn't you think?
    That's before you even consider safety concerns such exposed electrical connections.


  • #29
    Cerco
    Registered Users Posts: 2,032 ✭✭✭Cerco


    Wearb wrote: »
    Correct only to a point.
    The back plate screws to a box.
    Here's one I prepared earlier :)

    Yes, this indeed one of the installation options, the other is to directly mount the plate to the wall. In the OP’s case, he will not have a recessed box as he does not want to chase out the wall.


  • #30
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,209 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    Cerco wrote: »
    Yes, this indeed one of the installation options, the other is to directly mount the plate to the wall. In the OP’s case, he will not have a recessed box as he does not want to chase out the wall.

    The other option (mentioned above) is a surface box. Anything else is a bodge.

    Please follow site and charter rules. "Resistance is futile"



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  • #31
    Cerco
    Registered Users Posts: 2,032 ✭✭✭Cerco


    aido79 wrote: »
    It'll look fairly ugly if the wall isn't chased and there's surface conduit running down the wall into the controller if a back box isn't used wouldn't you think?
    That's before you even consider safety concerns such exposed electrical connections.
    The two options are : ( as per installation instructions)
    1. Use a recessed box as show in Wearb’s post above.
    2. Mount back plate directly to wall.

    From my understanding, You cannot fit the backplate within a box, it is mounted outside the box to allow the control unit to sit down on the plate and make the connections.
    When plate is fitted directly to wall the connections are covered by the control unit itself which is mounted on the plate. If you use a surface mounted box then the control unit and connector plate will be proud of the wall presenting the hazard You cited of exposed connections.
    In addition the screw points on the plate would not line up with a double box.

    Perhaps I am missing something here, apologies if I am.


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