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The state of comments online about road traffic deaths and cycling

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Comments

  • #272
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    https://www.thejournal.ie/clancy-amendment-5277149-Nov2020

    So many commenters seem to be of the opinion that it's ok to drive without a licence. This is what you're up against.

    My favourite one, it's actually scary

    Ah sure it's only 35 people killed by people who weren't on the road legally.

    I'm having a debate with some tool on FB who thinks it perfectly OK to drive with out motor tax or insurance or a valid NCT. Quote (his reply to a car being seized by gardai on a FB story):

    "The person might be out of work because this so called government has closedown a lot of places to work and it’s not that easy to be coming up with money never mind Xmas is around the corner give them the benefit of the doubt."

    The mind boggles


  • #273
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,301 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Pinch Flat wrote: »
    I'm having a debate with some tool on FB who thinks it perfectly OK to drive with out motor tax or insurance or a valid NCT. Quote (his reply to a car being seized by gardai on a FB story):

    "The person might be out of work because this so called government has closedown a lot of places to work and it’s not that easy to be coming up with money never mind Xmas is around the corner give them the benefit of the doubt."

    The mind boggles

    As soon as the term "so called government" is used I'd give up on them


  • #274
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    breezy1985 wrote: »
    As soon as the term "so called government" is used I'd give up on them

    They usually try and blame the Greens too


  • #275
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,324 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    SeanW wrote: »
    So if the government raises VRT, (or fuel duty, or road/"motor" tax) by €1,000 per year, that means the cost to society has risen by €9200 per year? By that calculation, the cost to society as determined by taxes levied on Irish motorists is €49.68 billion (motoring taxes net €5.4 billion per year) and that's just from what people spend on motoring related taxes. If you include the portion of Irish motorist expenditure that is not taxation (hypothetically let's guesstimate that tax takes up 1/3 of a motorists expenditure) then that means - according to your twitter post - that motoring costs the Irish people €149.04 billion per year. All of that with absolutely zero benefits to the people from personal mobility, the delivery of goods etc.

    (€5.4 * 3 * 9.2 = €149.04)

    I would love to see the details for how your study can prove that motoring costs the Irish people anything like that ... all with no benefits to society for such an inordinate sum.

    So if you quadruple one figure then the other figures don't make sense? Yeah, I guess that's why you don't just quadruple figures at random.

    They're not my figures and they're not Irish figures, but they raise some interesting questions.

    How far do we go on the benefits calculation that you mention? Can we include the near halving of cancer rates for cyclists in the benefit side of the analysis?


  • #276
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    https://twitter.com/JamesCun2000/status/1334148765758992392

    Scooterists on footpaths are a problem now too!


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  • #277
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,301 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/JamesCun2000/status/1334148765758992392

    Scooterists on footpaths are a problem now too!

    Did the van driver say something?

    Also shocking number of cars driving on footpaths there


  • #278
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,886 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    breezy1985 wrote: »
    Did the van driver say something?

    "Get off the footpath. Footpaths are driving and parking on, not riding scooters on".


  • #279
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,234 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    huh, i was talking to their boss a couple of years ago. they gave us a quote to replace the windows here.


  • #280
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,324 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    breezy1985 wrote: »
    Did the van driver say something?

    "Can't you just go round? A man's got a job to do."


  • #281
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,301 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    "Can't you just go round? A man's got a job to do."
    Stark wrote: »
    "Get off the footpath. Footpaths are driving and parking on, not riding scooters on".


    Thanks all I could hear were a few seconds of noise

    Edit: Are ye pulling my leg cause even with really good headphones I heard nothing


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  • #282
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,234 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i know this will add nothing to the debate, but it is kinda funny.

    https://twitter.com/theeyecollector/status/1334823776727527426


  • #283
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,301 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    i know this will add nothing to the debate, but it is kinda funny.

    https://twitter.com/theeyecollector/status/1334823776727527426

    Very good


  • #284
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,324 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    breezy1985 wrote: »

    Edit: Are ye pulling my leg cause even with really good headphones I heard nothing

    Tom will explain all;

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=by3WOCDQlJY


  • #285
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    So if you ever want to murder teenage girls, just use a car and there will be no repercussions

    https://www.thejournal.ie/mother-drove-at-teenagers-suspended-jailterm-5300808-Dec2020/


  • #286
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,324 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    So if you ever want to murder teenage girls, just use a car and there will be no repercussions

    https://www.thejournal.ie/mother-drove-at-teenagers-suspended-jailterm-5300808-Dec2020/

    "I'll go to jail for ya" she roared, but she gets a suspended sentance.


  • #287
    SeanW
    Registered Users Posts: 8,725 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Nah, it's OK, there are a wide variety of things you can do that will get you a suspended sentence in this country. In just the past few weeks, suspended sentences have been give out to kiddie fiddlers, scam artists, violent scumbags who attack nurses, wife beaters, animal abusers etc. just in the past few weeks. Concurrent sentencing is another joke in this country, but that's beside the point.

    There is also a well documented phenomenon in the West of women, by virtue of their gender, receiving shorter or no sentences for the same crimes as men.

    Yet even if the underlying implication was sound, i.e. that "motorists" have a license to commit crimes against "people", more often the reverse is true. That when when "people" commit crimes against "motorists" they are rarely if ever punished.

    Like this pair of insurance scammers: https://www.thesun.ie/news/6279698/couple-car-accidents-court-empty-handed-minor-brush/
    or this little scumbag cyclist:
    https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/youth-filmed-cycling-bike-dublin-22782527

    But hey, if you have evidence that it was the car, and not Irish sentencing guidelines, nor gender, that was the determining factor in giving her a suspended sentence, that would be good.

    In fact, there's been a lot of questionable assertions on this thread that could use some evidence.


  • #288
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Yeah Sean it's just another example of the real dangers on the roads/footpaths, yet we have Pat Kenny etc moaning about cyclists on footpaths all the time when they aren't a danger at all.


  • #289
    SeanW
    Registered Users Posts: 8,725 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Huh? How is this not just another example of a scumbag getting a free pass because of her gender and/or Ireland's broken justice system?


  • #290
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    Duckjob wrote: »
    https://ecf.com/news-and-events/news/tax-breaks-bike-commuters-european-trend

    There's a reason governments of countries in mainland Europe are now investing heavily in proper cycle infrastructure and actually going so far as giving people per km tax breaks to cycle to work.

    It's not some altruistic act on the part of those governments - they understand that it's an incredibly sound investment, otherwise they wouldn't do it.

    All that would happen in Ireland is people will buy the tax rebated bikes (or lawnmowers invoiced as bikes) as they are already doing, then claim the milage cycling tax relief, all the while just continuing driving into work and chatting in the canteen to their colleagues what a grand little scam they have going on claiming bike milage and drving a car.


  • #291
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,324 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    SeanW wrote: »
    Like this pair of insurance scammers: https://www.thesun.ie/news/6279698/couple-car-accidents-court-empty-handed-minor-brush/
    or this little scumbag cyclist:
    https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/youth-filmed-cycling-bike-dublin-22782527

    But hey, if you have evidence that it was the car, and not Irish sentencing guidelines, nor gender, that was the determining factor in giving her a suspended sentence, that would be good.

    In fact, there's been a lot of questionable assertions on this thread that could use some evidence.

    Speaking of evidence, there has been a lot more cases in Court of crimes against motorists by motorists than crimes against motorists by cyclists.


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  • #292
    SeanW
    Registered Users Posts: 8,725 ✭✭✭SeanW


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Speaking of evidence, there has been a lot more cases in Court of crimes against motorists by motorists than crimes against motorists by cyclists.
    You're probably right in as much as that little **** will probably never see the inside of a courtroom unless it's to push that or another fraudulent claim. Even then he likely won't see the inside of a courtroom because the insurance company will probably settle, helping increase Ireland's already absurd insurance rates.

    But speaking of evidence, the cyclists on this thread have made or inferred a lot of questionable assertions. Evidence for any of them would be great:
    1. The OP started with a claim that a fatality on Main Street, Charleville, Co. Cork was caused by "Irish planning" and had nothing to do with the fact that the "street" in question is also the main road between Ireland's 2nd and 3rd largest cities. The implication was that in a "proper" country with "proper" planning, street-road hybrids like the N20 would "work" and have a good safety record. No evidence was provided of course because street-road hybrids have bad safety records anywhere in the world that they are in service. And I know from personal experience that even if street-road hybrids don't get people killed, they do make the towns they go through unpleasant to live/work/shop in.
    2. Here we had a claim that Ireland was a "socially immature country" with "deep seated insecurities" that cause whatever the hell you people are droning on about, which seems bizarre considering that Ireland is hardly the only country in the world where people drive cars but we are easily among the top 10 for road safety.
    3. An unfounded accusation of murder. Zero evidence of mens rhea.
    4. Accusations that the RSA pulls figures out of their rear-ends.
    5. An unfounded accusation of Nazi-ism against a major newspaper. Zero evidence provided that they support gassing Jews, exterminating homosexuals, kidnapping mothers with two children and forcing her to choose which child is killed etc.
    6. An implied claim that every euro an Irish motorist spends (much of which is in tax, insurance and other regulatory costs) costs "society" €9.2. No evidence provided for the Irish context.
    7. A bizarre claim that owning a car gives someone a pass to attempt murder on Irish roads. Of course, zero evidence that it was that car that got her a suspended sentence, zero evidence that a suspended sentence for serious crime is unusual in this country, and zero evidence that the perp didn't get a free pass owing to her gender.
    Most of the above claims not only were accompanied by zero evidence, but were either explicitly disprovable by the evidence, or not credible on the balance of probabilities. Of course, there's been so much specious nonsense, and borderline gaslighting that I've probably missed some in the above list.


  • #293
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,234 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    SeanW wrote: »
    [*]An unfounded accusation of Nazi-ism against a major newspaper. Zero evidence provided that they support gassing Jews, exterminating homosexuals, kidnapping mothers with two children and forcing her to choose which child is killed etc.
    genuine question, is this for real?


  • #294
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Go take a lie down Sean, Happy Christmas.


  • #295
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    someone was arrested, must be drink driving, ignore this.

    Post edited by Thelonious Monk on


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