Peter McVerry Trust staff and wages

Jimmy Bottlehead · 06-12-2019 6:11pm

easypazz wrote: »

Are you saying every homeless person has addictions and mental health issues?

If people refuse to take a house down the country then let them live rough. Their choice.

People with severe issues could be sent for rehab in dedicated rural centres where they are far away from any supply of drugs.

"Could be sent" - you're assuming they want to go. And what if they fail, which is how most addiction treatment ends?

Or are you gonna change the law to force them to go?

"Then let them live rough" - good solution. That'll look great to the public.

I can see why you're not in charge of the crisis, and you prove why people with zero real knowledge showcase it with answers like the above.

end of the road · 06-12-2019 6:12pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

Revoke the majority of charity licenses. Allow only 2 charity licenses per sector i.e. 2 homeless, 2 cancer, etc. Bring in a rule that 90% of donations have to reach the source they were donated to.

and see lots of service users lose out when the charities are unable to get staff.
doesn't sound like a realistic, viable, workable solution to me anyway.

weldoninhio wrote: »

Happy to take the money and make no difference. Sums up the "charity" business.

i'm sure he makes a difference alright.
it probably won't be the unrealistic one you are looking for but that's your problem and not anyone elses.

weldoninhio wrote: »

Aww the poor cratur getting a free ride on the taxpayers buck. Meanwhile people are travelling from Monaghan/Carlow etc to get to work in Dublin.

because they wanted to own a property and that was all that was available to them.
nothing will change that unless prices as a whole come down, which the individual the other poster mentioned, has nothing to do with.

end of the road · 06-12-2019 6:34pm

blanch152 wrote: »

I don't think you have the first clue about the huge pressures that the ordinary working person faces every single day.

How many hundreds of thousands of working Dubliners had to move to Kildare, Meath, Wicklow, Louth, Westmeath, Laois, Offaly, Cavan etc over the last two decades because they could not afford to live in Dublin? Their families and friends are far away, they have no support for young families, they have no social life because they are so tired at weekends? Why should someone who has never worked a day in their life be entitled to a house in Dublin over them?

I explained this to somebody else a few days ago. There is a static amount of land in Dublin City, there is a growing population. If we house all of those on the homeless list in Dublin City who want to live in Dublin City, we will be pushing all of those who work further and further away, giving them longer and longer commutes? Is that fair or reasonable?

the long distance commuter will always exist for many reasons.
even if there were no homeless or wellfare dependants in the cities that wouldn't change really, if it did then changes would have been made by now i'm sure.

easypazz wrote: »

Exactly. For centuries irish people have emigrated all over the planet to better themselves, making huge sacrifices parting from family etc.

When moving the homeless down the country is suggested it is met with consternation.

Parts of rural ireland are crying out to be repopulated, we have thousands of people looking for homes.

Move them down the country and let them suck it up.

because it would likely end up a more costly repeat of the already tried and failed similar policies, both policies and outcomes being within living memory.
to repopulate the rural areas who have lost populations and to make those areas attractive to live would just cost way to much at this stage between building the required infrastructure and amenities.
to dump all of the homeless and wellfare dependants down there, i suspect it would actually be because people don't want to have to breathe the same air as people they deem below them, rather then actual genuine care for those people, we would have to encourage qualified staff to move to those areas so that such people can continue to get the support they needt, and then build all of the relevant facilities. i just do not see that as value for my taxes if i'm honest.
people like yourself are the ones who are going to have to suck it up if there is anything to suck up, we are not entitled to only be surrounded by those of similar means and standing to us.

easypazz wrote: »

Are you saying every homeless person has addictions and mental health issues?

If people refuse to take a house down the country then let them live rough. Their choice.

People with severe issues could be sent for rehab in dedicated rural centres where they are far away from any supply of drugs.

they couldn't as such would have to be built, and someone who wishes to take drugs will manage it regardless of how far away they are. + simply bleeting "let them sleep rough" isn't going to cut anything or actually do anything but make things worse for the rest of us.

easypazz · 06-12-2019 7:10pm

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

"Could be sent" - you're assuming they want to go. And what if they fail, which is how most addiction treatment ends?

Or are you gonna change the law to force them to go?

"Then let them live rough" - good solution. That'll look great to the public.

I can see why you're not in charge of the crisis, and you prove why people with zero real knowledge showcase it with answers like the above.

Once again. Not all homeless are addicts. Families in hotels, instead of foolishly trying to build houses in dublin, move them down the country.

If they dont like it tough luck.

There will never be enough property in dublin, ever, so lets accept queueing people through hotels wont work.

Put people where the property is.

Its not a crisis either, most hard working people know its a political football and know there are enough houses in the state to deal with the number of people looking for a home.

There are no votes in offering houses to the homeless.

easypazz · 06-12-2019 7:13pm

end of the road wrote: »

they couldn't as such would have to be built, .

Go build them then. Better than just playing pass the parcel with the thing.

Jimmy Bottlehead · 06-12-2019 7:13pm

easypazz wrote: »

Once again. Not all homeless are addicts. Families in hotels, instead of foolishly trying to build houses in dublin, move them down the country.

If they dont like it tough luck.

There will never be enough property in dublin, ever, so lets accept queueing people through hotels wont work.

Put people where the property is.

Its not a crisis either, most hard working people know its a political football and know there are enough houses in the state to deal with the number of people looking for a home.

There are no votes in offering houses to the homeless.

I never said all homeless people are addicts. I said significant numbers have addiction and mental health issues.

"Put people where the property is."

HOW?

Genuine question, how will you move them? And what services will you provide for them, and how?

easypazz · 06-12-2019 7:21pm

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

I never said all homeless people are addicts. I said significant numbers have addiction and mental health issues.

"Put people where the property is."

HOW?

Genuine question, how will you move them? And what services will you provide for them, and how?

Mary brings 5 kids to a garda station for the night. Well Mary we have great news, there is a nice house in rural Ireland, small village, 300 people, strong community spirit, small school, plenty of activities, safe environment.

Or we can put you in a hotel room and move you every 6 weeks.

Your call.

weldoninhio · 06-12-2019 7:23pm

easypazz wrote: »

Mary brings 5 kids to a garda station for the night. Well Mary we have great news, there is a nuice house in rural Ireland, small village, 300 people, strong community spirit, small school, plenty of activities, safe environment.

Or we can put you in a hotel room and move you every 6 weeks.

Your call.

If someone turns down a house because “it’s not near me ma” they should be removed from the housing list.

easypazz · 06-12-2019 7:26pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

If someone turns down a house because “it’s not near me ma” they should be removed from the housing list.

Precisely. If they turn up in a garda station put them in a taxi to a house down the country, never mind this hotels bollox.

cassid · 06-12-2019 7:37pm

Auguste Comte wrote: »

It's not their job to solve the issues, that's the government's job. Their gig is to provide services to the people left behind by government policies.

Accounting firm Mazars found in excess of 75 housing and homeless service providers got a total of nearly €100 from the Department of Housing every year. Conor Skekan who was a housing agency chief said the figure was 160 million.

The four biggest [charities] in Dublin have well over 900 employees with a payroll running to €80 million or €90 million.

The government are paying this money to businesses who call themselves charities. If 160 million was used to actually build and develop, would we have such a bad situation now. That's not including all the grants and fundraising teams earning more money. It goes into an empty pit and seems to pay wages more than anything.

Many of these organisations overlap services and are not accountable

Revenue keeps giving out charity status and the charity regulator does not regulate except in extreme cases

I did voluntary work for 12 years, I worked a paying job and raised a family. I was laughed at by several big charities for doing work for no pay. I had to take a break due to illness but hope to return but will return on a voluntary basis.

If you want to help, buy a piece of equipment for a hospital, help at community level, help pay for services/therapies/carers. Its your money, you can specify how you want your home to be spent. Aside of my volunteering, I fund-raised for Temple Street, and bought items I knew children would benefit from and also parents. Also fund-raised for specific equipment rather than 15,000 going into a general account.

LirW · 06-12-2019 7:38pm

easypazz wrote: »

Mary brings 5 kids to a garda station for the night. Well Mary we have great news, there is a nice house in rural Ireland, small village, 300 people, strong community spirit, small school, plenty of activities, safe environment.

Or we can put you in a hotel room and move you every 6 weeks.

Your call.

This is not how it works and this comes completely down to micromanaged housing policies. If people are on the list they cannot be housed outside of the council they have their request in with.
Someone on the list in Fingal cannot be housed Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown, because it's a separate list.
Homeless from Dublin cannot rock up in Mayo CC and request emergency accommodation there, the council will send them back to put an application in with the council they lived in last.
This is part of why the social housing situation is so messy.

Edit: just in case I'm asked for a source.

From Citizen Information:

"Important elements of these Regulations include that:

You can only apply to one housing authority
In general, you must already be living in the area covered by that housing authority or have a local connection with the area – though a housing authority may agree to waive this requirement
You will only be considered for social housing if your household income is less than the threshold that applies in the housing authority’s area
If your current mortgage is unsustainable, this will be taken into consideration in assessing your household’s need for social housing - see 'Need' below"

Currently every county has a waiting list and is generally not taking in external applications.

end of the road · 06-12-2019 7:38pm

easypazz wrote: »

Mary brings 5 kids to a garda station for the night. Well Mary we have great news, there is a nuice house in rural Ireland, small village, 300 people, strong community spirit, small school, plenty of activities, safe environment.

Or we can put you in a hotel room and move you every 6 weeks.

Your call.

she will understandably pick the hotel room because it will have the amenities and resources she needs to use, unlike rural ireland which have their own problems without becoming a dumping ground for groups of people who some think they are superior to because of their standing and means, when in actual fact, from what i can see, they really aren't.
from what i have saw from people who make such a suggestion, the move them to rural ireland suggestion really seems to be a classist attempt to dump them out of sight out of mind dressed up as pretending to care about them.

easypazz wrote: »

Precisely. If they turn up in a garda station put them in a taxi to a house down the country, never mind this hotels bollox.

the money spent on that taxi would be better spent on helping them where they are.

easypazz · 06-12-2019 8:46pm

LirW wrote: »

This is not how it works and this comes completely down to micromanaged housing policies. If people are on the list they cannot be housed outside of the council they have their request in with.
Someone on the list in Fingal cannot be housed Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown, because it's a separate list.
Homeless from Dublin cannot rock up in Mayo CC and request emergency accommodation there, the council will send them back to put an application in with the council they lived in last.
This is part of why the social housing situation is so messy.

Edit: just in case I'm asked for a source.

From Citizen Information:

"Important elements of these Regulations include that:

You can only apply to one housing authority
In general, you must already be living in the area covered by that housing authority or have a local connection with the area – though a housing authority may agree to waive this requirement
You will only be considered for social housing if your household income is less than the threshold that applies in the housing authority’s area
If your current mortgage is unsustainable, this will be taken into consideration in assessing your household’s need for social housing - see 'Need' below"

Currently every county has a waiting list and is generally not taking in external applications.

Change the system then. We have a problem with rural depopulation and a problem with too many people in dublin

The solution is obvious.

easypazz · 06-12-2019 8:47pm

end of the road wrote: »

she will understandably pick the hotel room because it will have the amenities and resources she needs to use, unlike rural ireland which have their own problems without becoming a dumping ground for groups of people who some think they are superior to because of their standing and means, when in actual fact, from what i can see, they really aren't.
from what i have saw from people who make such a suggestion, the move them to rural ireland suggestion really seems to be a classist attempt to dump them out of sight out of mind dressed up as pretending to care about them.

the money spent on that taxi would be better spent on helping them where they are.

What resources and amenities does she need that rural Ireland cant provide?

LirW · 06-12-2019 8:59pm

easypazz wrote: »

Change the system then. We have a problem with rural depopulation and a problem with too many people in dublin

The solution is obvious.

I'm absolutely in favour of this to make social housing more efficient and fairer for low-income workers.
But I can't change it, there is no political interest currently to change it for whatever reason.

Just stating the status quo that it is quite literally impossible with policies in place to be housed outside of the council you applied with and even if you have no running application you have to apply in the council you lived in.

mikemac2 · 06-12-2019 9:10pm

Our parish were looking for more people to send their children to the local national school. If they got a certain number the school gets an extra teacher

More young families welcome for sure

end of the road · 06-12-2019 9:12pm

easypazz wrote: »

Change the system then. We have a problem with rural depopulation and a problem with too many people in dublin

The solution is obvious.

other areas already have plenty needing housing, they cannot take others from other areas, hence changing the system will just put more strain on an already over stretched system in already over stretched areas.
rural depopulation actually isn't a problem really, urbanisation is apparently increasing world wide, and for a country the size of ireland that may be no bad thing.
of course people who wish to live in rural areas are entitled to do so and they should in no way be punished or forced out, but if urbanisation is what people want to engage in then that is the choice they have made and they should be able to make it.

easypazz wrote: »

What resources and amenities does she need that rural Ireland cant provide?

the resources and amenities she currently has where she is, whatever they may be.

LirW · 06-12-2019 9:14pm

easypazz wrote: »

What resources and amenities does she need that rural Ireland cant provide?

There are a few social housing units on my road and 3 are currently empty, a house and 2 flats. The places get turned down for the following reasons: our village has no primary school, the closest is 5km away. While I enjoy cycling it's not viable in the cold months because weather is bad and the roads are windy with poor visibility, drivers are careless and it is dangerous - also the area is hilly. So you absolutely need a car.
There is no post office, pharmacy or GP in our village, it's not suitable for anyone having limited options of travel to get their pension/dole or attend regular appointments.
There is no public transport or taxi services in the area.
The unoccupied units would only really suit elderly with transportation and community ties anyway because of how remote we are and they're too small to house more than two people.

The 3-bed house has been unoccupied for almost two years because it was in bad disrepair and the council would not allocate it before renovating it (a hoarder lived in there, so you get the idea).

Complete remoteness only works if people have their own transportation. The nearby bigger villages are at full social housing capacity. Currently every county has a waiting list and unoccupied houses belong to private individuals mostly, not the council.

Jimmy Bottlehead · 06-12-2019 9:44pm

In addition, there's the complete illegality of shoving Mary and her kids into a taxi to live somewhere she doesn't want to.

Mrs OBumble · 06-12-2019 9:56pm

mikemac2 wrote: »

Our parish were looking for more people to send their children to the local national school. If they got a certain number the school gets an extra teacher

More young families welcome for sure

Yeah, but if it came to semi-literate Mary with the strong north Dub accent and her five kids by four different fathers - most of whom have watched Mary getting beaten by some man or other and all of whom have vocabularies which are politely called "colourful" .. I'm guessing the welcome wagon might not be so ready.

easypazz · 06-12-2019 10:00pm

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

In addition, there's the complete illegality of shoving Mary and her kids into a taxi to live somewhere she doesn't want to.

Of course. But shoving them into a taxi to live in a hotel is fine.

LirW · 06-12-2019 10:03pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Yeah, but if it came to semi-literate Mary with the strong north Dub accent and her five kids by four different fathers - most of whom have watched Mary getting beaten by some man or other and all of whom have vocabularies which are politely called "colourful" .. I'm guessing the welcome wagon might not be so ready.

Good point, unless homeless people are unproblematic, they might face resistance from the community. You're fine as long as you don't cause any trouble. If your kids make it their hobby to harass the local children and are notoriously hard to integrate you are not welcome and locals will make sure to get their point across.
We got a problematic tenant to leave in the past because the whole community stood up to them together.
Small communities often appreciate new influx but not the wrong kind.

Hence why you need some sort of service that makes sure chaotic families are sustainably worked with in order to be able to keep a stable home for a longer period of time.

Beechwoodspark · 06-12-2019 10:19pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Yeah, but if it came to semi-literate Mary with the strong north Dub accent and her five kids by four different fathers - most of whom have watched Mary getting beaten by some man or other and all of whom have vocabularies which are politely called "colourful" .. I'm guessing the welcome wagon might not be so ready.

You say colourful I will raise you to technicolor !

Goldengirl · 06-12-2019 11:15pm

BDI wrote: »

So the social welfare give people enough to survive. One of the most generous systems in Europe.

Then we pay a charity to hire 500 staff 18.6m to give a few people who sleep rough food and showers. People que around the block for the bags of food no questions asked.

I wonder who had the contract supplying the grub. Is all the grub and toiletries sourced at the cheapest rate or are we struggling to get nappies so pay somebody extra to make sure we get first refusal?

Is all the food donated but the company that distributes it charging mad money?

Why don't you volunteer for a day and ask all of these .... questions?
These people do a good service and while they should be paid well and get decent pensions for the work and care they give to many who are not cared for by the state , they then have to endure inane questions like these.
But , of course, you are entitled to ask these questions, if only to provide entertainment to other Boreds users, as it were.

PMV have had more success housing people than the government and the man has gone above and beyond for decades provide care for addicts when the social services could not or would not address these issues.
Charities by definition depend on voluntary funding as well as statutory government funding and a preferential tax rate , to earn enough to employ suitably qualified people, who also have the interest in working in what are not always easy circumstances .
I think the queues around the block you talk about , are for the Capuchin centre which provides a voluntary service , feeding homeless , and poor, including families , who for years have gone there to supplement the inadequate sw payments . Many large supermarkets among others supply food that would otherwise go to waste , to FoodCloud , who distribute to the different charities.
Yes, they make money out of this, why not, it's their job and chosen career . I don't know how much they charge. Maybe you could ask them that question , directly instead ?
And yes, the supermarkets waste more than they give away, but I for one am glad that these business ventures at least devote some of their energy to trying to do something good, than just making money .
As charities, you are not forced or obliged to give any money to them if you , as others have said here on this thread ,do not wish to. Your tax money will be divided between all the charities by the government you elect regardless. Governments encourage these charities because charity workers are not motivated by large salaries and bonuses generally, they literally get more bang for their buck, and people prefer to give a few quid to charity than pay extra in taxes.
In fact you don't have to do anything at all , except continue posting more comments here , and maybe you and others will feel better about the fact that that uppity priest dared to make people think about homelessness so close to the festive season.
If you think you are paying too much for nappies , shop around, it's your money , and thank your stars that you have that luxury.

Goldengirl · 06-12-2019 11:25pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

VcVerry seemed to be on every news and current affairs programme I turned on this week bitching and moaning but offering no solutions as usual, he gets a serious amount of money to fund his work so it's on him to make the best use of it.

Meanwhile Brother Kevin and the Capuchin Friars work quietly behind the scenes and have been doing so for the last 40 years with a lot less money coming their way than McVerry has and they don't need to be on the tele every other day either.

Totally respect Brother Kevin and the Capuchin Friars and what they do , but its apples and oranges . One is a food bank, warm place to shelter during the day , and soup kitchen, and the other is providing housing, counselling and is 24/ 7.

Goldengirl · 06-12-2019 11:35pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Or, this is just a radical thought, people actually take responsibility for their own lives and house themselves?!

No need for the multiple “Charities” duplicating services.

A lot of people in our society cannot house themselves, particularly those suffering from mental illness and addiction .
Those charities are not duplicating services , they are stretched thin so many need help , and its not readily coming from the government.

anewme · 06-12-2019 11:38pm

Whether you like McVerry or not; he is Political, he is Egotistical (which he admits), he is one of the good guys. Strong characters can be divisive, he is dogged, but he has made a difference where it counts.

Goldengirl · 06-12-2019 11:40pm

downtheroad wrote: »

Amalgamate the lot of them and cut down the administration costs, remove several CEO salaries and spend the money on providing shelter and accommodation rather than on payroll.

So how much should that person who does that get for amalgamating several charities and running them?!
Most of them do different things and are based in a variety of locations throughout the country.

06-12-2019 11:49pm

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

In addition, there's the complete illegality of shoving Mary and her kids into a taxi to live somewhere she doesn't want to.

Beggars and choosers. When the options are "a gaff in Roscommon" versus "16 months in a hotel followed by a gaff on your Ma's road", of course she doesn't want to go. If it was as bad as the various bleeding hearts would have you believe, you'd better believe they'd be biting the hand off you for a house ANYWHERE.

How come it's illegal to shove Mary into somewhere she doesn't want to go, yet perfectly legal to force John Q Taxpayer into a gaff in Wexford and a 5hr round trip to work every day? You think they want to go live in a commuter belt 160 kilometres from their workplace?

Goldengirl · 06-12-2019 11:54pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Charity is just another industry

Every street sleeper could live like kings for the rest of their lives if all money donated went directly to source

What source? Without the charities you are giving money straight to an addict who will only feed his addiction, and the only ones benefiting there are drug lords and off licenses.

Peter McVerry Trust staff and wages

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