Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

BSG -The Greatest TV Show Ever

  • 01-08-2015 12:42am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭


    I just finished watching all 4 seasons. Despite my mixed feelings about the finale I still think it's essentially the greatest tv series of all time. For me the ending was thematically strong in an overarching sense but depressing or very bittersweet for the characters. Although I would express a preference for sci fi, I think it stands above GoT in that it's more humane and explores deeper themes/concepts, the characters also appeal to me more.

    I watched the seasons back to back and tbh I didn't think season 3 was that bad at all, in fact it was excellent, the New Caprica situation was brilliantly handled and there were some superb standalone episodes, I particularly liked the one on class tensions. Season 4 is where it got very metaphysical and lost the plot sometimes but it had many outstanding episodes. There are some images throughout the series that are burned onto my mind like Lee watching the Ressurection ship battle, drifting in space, that scene really illuminated the futility and insanity of the conflict in the void of space, not only that it looked beautiful with the nuclear explosions on the hulls, the ferocity of the battle and the darkness of the expanse. That would have to be one of my favourite battles in the whole series, it was electrified with tension and you really got a sense of how dangerous going into battle against the cylons, the music really brought this out. Also when the chief is in his quarters being depressed about his cylon lineage, for me this absolutely sums up the realism of the series, it was also brilliantly shot in monotonal greys. I mean you just seldom get this in other sci fi shows, this level of seriousness. Also Adama's breakdowns really conveyed how someone would react to having to deal with the burden of the survival of the entire human race on their shoulders after four years in a tin can.

    The whole series felt more like an extended film that didn't compromise on its vision, it's just pure art imo. I say this of course as a sci fi fan who has very little interest in shows set in the real world, but to me the political, existential and moral themes of the series, combined with the performances and realism just take it beyond all other tv shows. It's also probably better than any sci fi novel I've read and I've read many.


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 883 ✭✭✭Keplar240B


    So say we all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,905 ✭✭✭User45701


    Yup
    i think ive sucked youtube dry of Battlestar galactica tribute videos


  • Registered Users Posts: 883 ✭✭✭Keplar240B


    It was a brilliant show.

    There is little I would change about the first 3 seasons
    maybe tweak the way the Resurrection ships worked which did NOT make sense for example If a cylon humanoid is identical to a human who can it transmit if killed suddenly wheres the transmitter?.
    Redesigned the way the cylon population was ordered maybe with different castes of humanoid and robot and these castes would be the faultlines for the civil war

    I liked the gritty realism of first seasons, it was all about - Fuel, water, food, run, fight, hide, rest. run.

    BUT has to said

    Last episode of season 3 and into season 4 although still entertaining the plot just became bizarre and fantastical. as you call it "metaphysical"
    The "final five" ass****ery and the obnoxious horrible starbuck arc
    the final five??!!?

    Humanoid cylon infiltrators and the "head six" in Baltor where brilliant but they took it too far with the whole final five and their background story, the cylon civil war was brilliant but the way the cylons where then merged into the fleet was
    unnerving Gaeta and zarek and the mutineers where right. It went from the dread of season 1 not knowing who was a Cylon which was amazing to a cylon XO in the CIC frak that.

    They would have better off seeing cylons destroy themselves in a civil war and the fleet finding earth in 2008 and having a first contact
    Ending was poor.

    Best character Laura roslin
    worst The vile starbuck


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭nyarlothothep


    Yeah, I thought the glowing spines were cool. Afaik, and they could have done more to highlight this at the end of the series, the humanoid cylons had fibre optic cables running through their central nervous system. The annoying thing is that you don't see any modules/connections in the catscan of Ander's brain. Although he is an original cylon, the fact that the other 4 could connect to each other's thoughts through the amniotic fluid would indicate that they also have fibre optics or some cellular circuitry that allows them to do this. I would say that like the ftl it's left unexplained, basically the cylons are masters of organic engineering and that's all we need to know beyond techno babble. Definitely we could posit that they have mastered genetic/organic computing, it's the same ideas except in a different (organic medium). But to go technobabble maybe every mind has a unique quantum signature and the cylons are encoded with an imprint which identifies them as cylons and allows the hub to keep a track of them. Maybe it involves manipulating quantum entanglement to transfer the data of their consciousness to the hub via the encoding?

    I thought the cylon-human alliance was nice, basically the colonials were in space for four years, things were getting desperate and there were issues with the rebel cylons but basic survival and them getting acculturated to each other led to a shared interest in finding nu-earth. It also linked up perfectly with the theme of redemption through ending the cycle of hate/violence. In their quest to find earth the colonials were effectively purged of the worst aspects of themselves by God or as the series suggests a very advanced alien species or perhaps cylons from the future (those centurions at the end had 150,000 years to evolve so maybe they became godlike?) Also the final five weren't the cylons of the colonial era. Apart from having similar capabilities they were effectively a different breed of human, bio-mechanical humans (which is probably what we'll evolve into in the next hundred years), they had progressed much further from their mechanical origins than the colonial era cylons. Maybe they were genetically engineered humans with artificial implants and programming that were intended to serve the Lords of Kobol? Maybe there were no centurion cylons on Kobol or were no longer used? So you had a manufactured slave race of humans with some funky powers that won their freedom, established a colony on earth and were effectively just another race of humans. I think if anything is suggested it's that sentience transgresses material components, in a way discrimination against artificial lifeforms on the basis of being artificial isn't any different from racism, self awareness is self awareness regardless of the components.

    I think finding earth in 2008 would have immediately dated the series, like in the way we might look at BSG 1980. At least going into the distant past allows them to avoid that problem. Although Starbuck is the type of person I would not get along with in real life I, for some reason, liked her character (hell I even dreamnt this week that she was giving me flying lessons, I was her favoured student haha). I thought the story arc here was problematic, specifically with respect to the music as "God" was effectively directly intervening rather than giving humans a choice, which would make their survival more hardwon, although this was represented more or less in the show as their survival didn't come easy. I think Starbuck basically went into a wormhole/space time anomaly on the planet, she ended up on old earth to remind the colonial fleet of the cycle and awaken the memories of the final five, in effect the humans/rebel cylons were being made aware of this cyclical violence so that they would be "purged" of their sins before they arrived at nu-earth. An informational copy was simultaneously created, effectively I would say this "God" being had complete mastery over the universe, as if it were a computer program, and just copy/pasted Starbuck, then deleted her or moved her to a different folder when her purpose was served. Which is why I think "God" was in truth an AI of some sort, perhaps comprised of the cylon intellect that evolved from the centurions, 150,000 years ago and human elements, that were amalgamated later on when us, (150,000 years later) managed to break the cycle and join up with the evolved cylons, as we had a slow enough timeframe to wrangle out at a deeper level, the flaws in colonial society that led to its destruction. I thought season 4 was hit and miss, the Baltar cult started off good, I really liked it when he was lifted up by Head Six, but it did get a bit convoluted. The finale was 40% good, 40% arrrrghhh and 20% hmmm, maybe it was alright after all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭nyarlothothep


    A thought crossed my mind, assuming it existed what would Caprica city look like today after 150,000 of being uninhabited? Despite the bombings it looked fairly intact.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 883 ✭✭✭Keplar240B


    A thought crossed my mind, assuming it existed what would Caprica city look like today after 150,000 of being uninhabited? Despite the bombings it looked fairly intact.

    That was Delphi city they showed in resistance scenes on new Caprica planet not caprica city, Delphi was not nuked by the toasters they wanted it as base. Caprica city was a hit by a 50 Megaton Nuke and totally destroyed.
    http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Delphi
    As for what can last that long 150,000, not a lot! have you seen that show "life after people"
    http://lifeafterpeople.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_of_collapses


    I just finished season 4 as well.
    Have you watched the prequel show Caprica? Just started watching it now its pretty fracking good , no space battles thou , only one season so its mangeable timewise


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭nyarlothothep


    Definitely watching Caprica as well as Razor, The Plan and Blood and Chrome. That's a shame. I would have liked for future humans to discover Delphi city in at least some state of integrity, so that something of colonial society would survive. Hell it would be funny if they came across an old video recording of a Gaius Baltar interview on the news, not realising he was instrumental in the destruction of the 12 colonies and the founding of the modern human race.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭nyarlothothep


    I think "God" in the show was he who could not be named or the jealous god, one of the 12 lords of Kobol as at the end Head Gaius says "you know he doesn't like being called that", therefore he who shall remain nameless. Obviously due to some power coup he initiated a cycle that would replay itself and hence his involvement in trying to restart the cycle, the redemption narrative is as much one for the colonials as it is for him, he's basically cleaning up the mess he created.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Dont bother watching the plan or razor (razor is the first episode in season 4 on the dvd boxed set so you might have seen it already). The plan demonstrates that the cylons had no particular aim in mind at all. In many ways it is worse to watch it.

    Caprica is ok but slow and dull.

    Blood and chrome was excellent IMO.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭strelok


    yeah the plan was horrendous

    you're watching it waiting for this glorious battle plan that's been laid out for hundreds of years, just now being set into motion

    and it's just cavil babysitting a load of children


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭nyarlothothep


    It doesn't matter, I can't get enough bsg, even if it is sh1t. It is ironic though that they emphasised that the cylons had a plan before every episode when they didn't even have a plan for them at all.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭strelok


    that's where bsg falls apart. they made the whole god damn thing up on the spot. they didn't even know who the fifth cylon was until they were writing 4.5.

    shambles of a show. that whole aspect of it soured it for me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭nyarlothothep


    That being said bsg cost a lot of money to make and while ratings were strong they didn't push the show into that zone as far as I can tell where they could plot long term. Apparently it's quite normal for shows to be made up as they go along because they're always in danger of being cancelled. I think it holds together relatively well despite its flaws, there was always the religious aspect right from the beginning and the final five were well chosen, Saul for example didn't get tired out compared to Adama in 33 and Tyrell had dreams of being a cylon in season 2 and tired so little that he was able to build a stealth ship out of hours. Ellen was suggested to be a cylon right from the start with her magic appearance onboard Galactica. The one issue I have though they were reprogrammed is that none of them, absolutely none of them with the exception of Tyrell and maybe Anders (given the speech he made about mathematical perfection) were convincing in terms of being genius intellect scientists in a past life. But again that could be explained away with reprogramming.

    Tbh I would have preferred a mega happy ending where they end up on earth in the far flung future, that would leave it open for new bsg series, the redemption narrative wouldn't be compromised by such an ending either. Instead we got a fairly downbeat ending where essentially they end up in "Eden". I know there are all the arguments about them surviving less than three months as hunter gatherers but I don't think that was the point, the ending was more symbolic than anything. These characters have been through hell and end up in the veritable garden to restart humanity. And so here we are now with shows like bsg and films such as Ex Machina culturally preparing us for the dangers of AI and a cylon revolution, the cycle is broken as our technology hasn't outpaced our cultural development.

    Or has it?

    (ps I want AI research to recklessly pursue artificial sentience regardless of the danger!)


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    strelok wrote: »
    that's where bsg falls apart. they made the whole god damn thing up on the spot. they didn't even know who the fifth cylon was until they were writing 4.5.

    shambles of a show. that whole aspect of it soured it for me.

    Still enjoyable though.

    I just wish that one of these mystery tv shows - lost, battlestar, GOT, etc that have a promise of a profound or interesting premise would turn out to actually have been thought out from the start and not just have a suprise ensing shoehorned in at the end. Dont get me wrong, leaving ambiguities on small plot points (e.g. Gaetas secret, whether the people were alive in olympic carrier) add suspense and allow a bit of imagination. Likewise we dont need to know all background details (whether rural colonists survived to repopulate the colonies (eventually), what happened to the kobol so that its cursed, etc).

    But Id like to think that the central premises were fully thought out (were the gods pulling the strings/history repeating itself etc) and not just tacked in because they had backed themselves into a corner. To me the whole Kara harbringer of doom was a bad retcon and the subtle religion vs rationality that permeated the first 3 series just turned into "its the gods, ok?". The main problem is that the cylons had a plan but no real plan, a shared history but really were aliens, direct democracy but really a divtatorship of Calvin etc etc. All of these things could have been better played out if they were decided from the start IMo


  • Registered Users Posts: 883 ✭✭✭Keplar240B


    The worst part of the ending was when they gave the chrome jobs the baseship so they could "find their own way" what the frack!


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭nyarlothothep


    This is a pretty good analysis which kind of highlights what the ending was trying to achieve:

    http://www.overthinkingit.com/2011/08/01/battlestar-galactica-technology-evolution/

    I found the arguments about technological convergence and evolutionary patterns really interesting. Finding humans on a planet which the colonials could exist on wasn't really improbable so the scriptwriters didn't need to say it was an astronomical coincidence. Imo it's more likely that advanced sentient life is informed by certain design parameters. It's a theory they could have gone with in anycase. I think the ending was quite poetic in a way, thematically at least I think it worked and it's quite cool that many of our narratives about AI can be traced back to a collective unconscious memory about the near extinction of humanity by machines!


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭nyarlothothep


    I'll add this, although the ending was divisive I really enjoyed the ancient aliens idea, futuristic yet shrouded in the mysts of time, it evokes a sense of wonder basically, for me anyway. What was cool about BSG is that it sucessfully avoided the hokey aspect of sci fi. I've watched Stargate SG1 and personally I think it was sh1te in that it was cheap sci fi, where every parallel dimension was the same wooded area a trip away from the studio. It was passable but incredibly bland, moreso than Voyager and it has baffled me as to why it's so popular because it's the equivalent of beige. There again Voyager, Enterprise and even DS9 (although it was a step in the right direction) were hokey, cheesy, sanitised. I could see where they were going with DS9 but it still suffered from Star Trek constraints, it remained in that "safe" universe. BSG however was the real deal, no bs, no sci fi cheese, it didn't suffer effectively from what, I as a nerd, would call the negative effects of the nerd factor, which inform other sci fi tv shows. You weren't certain of what would happen next ala all the main characters retroactively survive, it wasn't episodic, everything works out in the end, the production values were cinematic, the acting wasn't wooden, it was Oscar worthy, so this is why it has been game changer for me in terms of the sci fi genre and why I demand that every sci fi show after this follow the standards it has set. And regardless of the Deus Ex ending which was foregrounded from the start (and we can presume that the messengers were acting on behalf of the jealous god or he who cannot be named and that Starbuck was an incarnation of Aurora or the goddess of Dawn, effectively super advanced beings or the galactic Seraphim who apparently are referenced in the original BSG), I would say a lot of the best sci fi suffers from this. For example, Peter F. Hamilton has written amazing sci fi but suffers from invoking the same magic contrivance ending formula. Not necessarily the best idea but I wouldn't hold it against the story that's been told, (The Nightsdawn Trilogy and the Commonwealth Saga are excellent works of sci fi as examples despite the fact that they both suffer from magic endings).


  • Registered Users Posts: 883 ✭✭✭Keplar240B


    Latest high resolution image of the Bright spots on Ceres.
    Anyone notice anything
    All of this was happened before, All of this will happen again.
    X8xUlks.png


  • Registered Users Posts: 554 ✭✭✭Q&A


    Having watched reruns of the original as a kid I was completely against the idea of the remake. So much so I went out of my way to avoid it. It was purely by accident that I watched the start of season 3 without realising what it was at first. I enjoyed the gritty realism and the not so vailed references to world politics The religious aspect added a different element. I was converted from there that was almost 10 years ago which gave me a shock

    Was it perfect of course not but having started to watch it again it is a fantastic show that a decade on is still as every bit as good. Nukes, terrorism, refugees, people fighting against austere conditions... To mention just a few themes that we can relate to now. There's enough depth and complexity to keep it relevant. Looks wise the CGI is as good as anything now.

    As I look forward to a second run through I'm thinking to myself if its as good as I remember there's no reason why I won't sit down and watch it a third time in years to come. I might sit down and watch my favourite film if its on but I can't think of another show I'd rewatch in its entirety. At only 4 seasons I guess it's not that much of a commitment but its still a measures of how good a show it is.


  • Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭Cupra280


    Just finished it last night.
    Really enjoyed it....until it got all meta-physical throughout Season 4.

    Glad that it pulled itself together for the finale.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭colossus-x


    Been watching since September and on Season 4 now. Great series. Love what they did the special effects when that was one of the disastrous things about the 1980's series.

    I quite like the way all the buffer dude's put baby oil on their arms to make them look sweaty. Nice touch lol.

    Were the Scilons a different race rather that being created by humans in the eighties series?

    I love the design of the scilon war ships but puttng a scilon head on the runabout ships didn't quite work.

    I love the soundtrack. Excellent.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭nyarlothothep


    In the original series the Cylons were created by a race of lizard aliens.


  • Registered Users Posts: 258 ✭✭cranefly


    For anyone still interested in this series, the blu-ray editions of the full series are on amazon.uk i got mine for around 38 euro, a few weeks back 25 pound. now back up to 30 pounds. some of the scenes are a bit grainy but that is how it is meant to look. what a fantastic show, even having watched the whole series on tv 10 years ago this show is timeless.

    Can anyone tell me the twelve colonies are they on seperate planets aka. caprica, pikon, sagitaran, etc or are they seperate continents on the same planet, 12 planets in the same solar system which can support human life seems a bit far fetched to me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,415 ✭✭✭✭Blazer


    Can't believe its 12 years since this started.
    Definitely my favourite tv show ever...rewatched it around 2011 and found lots of things I missed in the first showing.
    Definitely due a re-run of it shortly :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,019 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    I had BSG in my collection to watch for a few years now and finally began it a couple of weeks ago. I came in a skeptical that I would be all that impressed with it but having now finished the whole lot I am moved to say it is easily one of the most enjoyable, engrossing and brilliant TV shows I have ever had the pleasure of viewing

    The cast is by and large superb, the writing is excellent and the music at times is both breathtaking and heartbreaking. Almost a perfect TV show with lofty ambitions that does not disappoint ultimately, a very rare thing these days. In terms of standouts, EJO (Bill Adama) is absolutely brilliant in the role, I can't speak highly enough of how good a performance he gave, notable mentions though for all the lead characters really, not a bad performance from any of them.

    The show being sci-fi you might think would have trouble bringing a microscope on real life humanity but it excels at it, some of the scenarios played out, the actions, and conflicts the characters go through is so grounded and realistic that once you get past the initial setting (i.e. space n stuff) the gritty nature of the show takes over and you see it for the fantastic story and character study in really is.

    TL;DR One of the most enjoyable, engrossing tv shows I have ever seen, shame it had to end but it is always better to leave them wanting more as they say!

    On that note, are any of the spin offs or related thing worth a look or will they ultimately just annoy me?

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,415 ✭✭✭✭Blazer


    I get so jealous of people saying they're about to watch it for the first time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,488 ✭✭✭Goodshape


    On that note, are any of the spin offs or related thing worth a look or will they ultimately just annoy me?

    Yeah, I enjoyed both Blood & Chrome and Caprica. Neither were great, though. Worth a look.


Advertisement