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Friend's workplace problem

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  • 07-04-2019 6:13pm
    #1
    tommyh1977
    Registered Users Posts: 350 ✭✭


    Hi all, just looking for a bit of perspective on how a friend of mine can try deal with the following problem she is having in her workplace.

    Bit of background information first. She's a very close friend and has come to me with this problem which she can see no way of solving. She is one of these people who has a very bubbly personality and works in a primarily male environment. She only brought this to my attention recently but has been trying to deal with it herself for over a year now. Basically a duty manager who is over her has taken a fancy to her, but not just a fancy. It started over a year ago when he occasionally would come into her office and give her a platonic hug, then the hugs got more frequent. Eventually the hugs turned into him asking her to meet him after work one evening. She said absolutely not as they are both married and either way she has no interest in him regardless. He instantly started making her life in her job very difficult, blaming her to senior management, giving her more than she could handle etc. But after some time he got sick of doing this and things settled, up until recently. He started coming into her office again, then one day asked for a hug. She allowed him hug her. And yes you guessed it now he comes in daily for a hug. She told me that sometimes he holds her too long and she has to push him off. Obviously I asked her what was she thinking allowing him to hug her. She broke down in floods of tears that if she said no she'd be back down the same track again of him making her job hell, plus she already has more senior management breathing down her neck too. Then she told me she had to work late a few evenings last week, and he was hanging around her office passing hints that he wanted her.

    I'm just hoping someone can offer some advice here. He's using his position of authority to basically bully and harass her. She said she can't go to senior management as he's popular and fears the whole workplace will turn on her. She has to deal with him on his own but doesn't know how. I'm of the opinion that this is a form of workplace sexual harassment. She admits she's not helping by continuing to allow the hugs, but knows if she doesn't play ball he'll turn it all back on her and could end up costing her job.

    I'm thinking if she sends him an email, outlining that she doesn't appreciate the hugs, that she has already told him NO, that she knows he's using his position of authority to his advantage, that if he doesn't stop she'll go to his wife and management and if he does stop but makes her life hell then she'll also go to his wife and management

    Worst thing of the whole scenario, she's doesn't see herself as the victim here, she thinks she deserves this because she lets him hug her. Some might agree but step into her shoes and put yourself in her situation, she's playing along for a quiet life. I know this guy and he's nasty piece of work, I'm just concerned the night will come when he expects more and will not take no for an answer.

    All advice appreciated guys, thanks in advance


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    #2
    Panthro
    Registered Users Posts: 14,684 ✭✭✭✭Panthro


    Tell her to get on to HR and write everything down.
    Or if that fails, go to senior management directly and tell them what our lad is up to.
    Totally and utterly unacceptable behaviour in the work place and a complete misuse of his position.
    Asking for a hug. ****in knob.


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    #3
    Rubberchikken
    Registered Users Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭Rubberchikken


    agree with above.
    this guy is a sleaze and a bully.
    yes your friend has bern stupid and naive allowing this to happen but its happened and the best thing to do now is put a full stop.to it by going to hr. and encourage her to take no nonsense from hr, which can happen.


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    #4
    tommyh1977
    Registered Users Posts: 350 ✭✭tommyh1977


    Appreciate the fast replies, this is the exact advice I gave her, but she's refusing because he has her so intimidated and scared. I even told her I'd go with her as support if HR would allow it, but she said definitely not as she knows he'll turn it all back on her. Poor girl is in bits TBH and has cried bitter tears. Ye she was totally naive, she knows that, but now doesn't know how to stop this creep. She feels because she allows the hugs that she'll be classed as leading him on, some might agree?? also that nobody will see the fact he has her harassed so much she really feels if she doesn't play ball work will become a nightmare.

    I forgot to mention she is the type of person who is a little vulnerable, never says no to anyone when asked to do something, always wants the quiet life both at work and outside of it and will always take the quiet option. When I said it to her that we have to go after this guy she was like " no no we can't, everyone will blame me, think I'm a slut and work will become hell"

    This is why I think she (we) need to go after this guy personally with a very strong email, but will have to be watertight that he can't throw anything at her in return by making her life hell. Sure he might be sour with her in the workplace and might stop talking to her, but as I said would that be a bad thing. I really am worried for her emotional state and also that the situation will occur where she's on her own with him and he won't take no for an answer. If she's already blaming herself this much, I wonder would she even tell me or anyone if he did force himself on her.


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    #5
    Batgurl
    Registered Users Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭Batgurl


    Whatever you do, do not email him. Document everything, every instance of a hug, inappropriate behaviour etc then go to him and verbally tell him he is inappropriate and it needs to stop. If that doesn’t work she can go to HR. If that doesn’t work, she can quit and claim constructive dismissal. She’ll enjoy a nice payout and can move on.


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    #6
    tommyh1977
    Registered Users Posts: 350 ✭✭tommyh1977


    Batgurl wrote: »
    Whatever you do, do not email him. Document everything, every instance of a hug, inappropriate behaviour etc then go to him and verbally tell him he is inappropriate and it needs to stop. If that doesn’t work she can go to HR. If that doesn’t work, she can quit and claim constructive dismissal. She’ll enjoy a nice payout and can move on.

    Thanks for the reply, thing is she's so intimidated by him she is unable to verbally confront him, even if she does he'll start his antics of making life sheer hell in the workplace. She's kept this bottled up for over a year before she came to me in absolute bits.


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    #7
    Big Bag of Chips
    Administrators Posts: 13,765 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    Do you work there? If not stay out of it. Advise her by all means but do not involve yourself.

    I think the best you can advise her is to go to HR and tell them she is having an issue with a staff member. Tell them she is going to try broach the issue with him herself first. But if he then tries to turn this around and make life in work difficult for her then she wants it on record that she came to HR to say this might happen.

    With all due respect, she needs to either do something about it or look for another job. I understand she is scared and upset but unless she does something about it it will continue. Crying about it yet doing nothing is offering nothing to the solution.

    But you cannot get involved. Unless of course you work there and have witnessed his behavior...?


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    #8
    tommyh1977
    Registered Users Posts: 350 ✭✭tommyh1977


    Big Bag of Chips wrote: »
    Do you work there? If not stay out of it. Advise her by all means but do not involve yourself.

    I think the best you can advise her is to go to HR and tell them she is having an issue with a staff member. Tell them she is going to try broach the issue with him herself first. But if he then tries to turn this around and make life in work difficult for her then she wants it on record that she came to HR to say this might happen.

    With all due respect, she needs to either do something about it or look for another job. I understand she is scared and upset but unless she does something about it it will continue. Crying about it yet doing nothing is offering nothing to the solution.

    But you cannot get involved. Unless of course you work there and have witnessed his behavior...?

    I've no intention of getting directly involved, only a friend who is advising. I'm just trying to figure out a way how she can take this on without allowing this guy to become a bigger creep than he already is.


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    #9
    cannotlogin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,172 ✭✭✭cannotlogin


    tommyh1977 wrote: »
    I've no intention of getting directly involved, only a friend who is advising. I'm just trying to figure out a way how she can take this on without allowing this guy to become a bigger creep than he already is.

    There is no easy magic solution - she either goes to HR or gets a new job.


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    #10
    Ursus Horribilis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,168 ✭✭✭Ursus Horribilis


    cannotlogin wrote: »
    There is no easy magic solution - she either goes to HR or gets a new job.

    This. I'm afraid this could be a lesson hard learned by your friend. She's going to have to pull on her big girl pants here.


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    #11
    tommyh1977
    Registered Users Posts: 350 ✭✭tommyh1977


    Ursus Horribilis wrote: »
    This. I'm afraid this could be a lesson hard learned by your friend. She's going to have to pull on her big girl pants here.

    Thanks for all the advice, I'm just going to have to convince her this being the best solution, It's going to take some work but i intend trying my utter best to help her see the light of day.

    Whether she says no to the hugs now or allows it to continue until he tries for more and then says no, same end result, he'll make her life hell. Just trying to get her to see she's only delaying the inevitable "NO" at some stage.


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    #12
    Unanimous
    Closed Accounts Posts: 143 ✭✭Unanimous


    She could go to HR but there is no evidence she has here. Sexual harassment claims are not taken easy in the accused and even the accuser so she should be ready to move in either way.
    In my opinion, she needs to be able to gather real evidence against where he has started explicitly what he wants. Then she can tell her story.
    This can be done by going on those after work dates and recoding the conversation, letting a trusted person know and even be present at the restaurant but unknown to him.
    But ultimately, I suggest that she is prepared to walk away


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    #13
    Ursus Horribilis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,168 ✭✭✭Ursus Horribilis


    If your friend isn't willing to go the HR route, then encourage her to start job hunting. Better to get out of there now before her head melts.


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    #14
    Augme
    Registered Users Posts: 5,088 ✭✭✭Augme


    Has she told her husband? If not get her to tell her husband as he will probably help solve the problem.


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    #15
    Panthro
    Registered Users Posts: 14,684 ✭✭✭✭Panthro


    It's a work issue. Let work deal with it.


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    #16
    Anteayer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 886 ✭✭✭Anteayer


    This is sexual harassment. There’s no other way of describing it. It needs to be dealt with by HR.


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    #17
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    She should just go straight to HR about it.

    As soon as she reports that he is invading her personal space and making unwanted bodily contact (hugging her) she is bullet proof. He cannot possibly make her life a misery from that point onwards because HR will be aware of him.


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    #18
    valoren
    Registered Users Posts: 5,458 ✭✭✭valoren


    You know those annual policy signing documents office workers have to read* and sign off on?
    Those documents contain details about not only the employees conduct but also the company's code of duty towards the employee's. She is being harassed and bullied and under the company policy for them to enforce their code of duty then she absolutely must report this to her line manager and the HR officer. The code of duty covers things like safe working place, fire drills and all that stuff but it also covers bullying and harassment.

    It's no use crying to you about it, that will not make this stop. She has protection with company policy which is that she be able to work without getting harassed (for hugs) or bullied (by this creep piling pressure on her when he doesn't get a cuddle). I would advise her to request a meeting with HR to discuss the companies harassment and bullying policy, she doesn't have to name the guy. She can establish if they actually have this in place (they will) and she can then subsequently report it and open a case file about this guy in a follow up meeting with her line manager etc. The worst case scenario is if the HR rep does nothing, or in many cases is buddy buddy with the perpetrator, and in that case she, after completing a case file, if they do not stop the harassment she should mention that she will look to engage with a solicitor who specializes in employment law. Nothing will light a fire under a companies ass like the prospect of negative PR and the financial penalties for failing to follow and enforce employment laws. What are they going to do? Fire her? She'd be looking at a handsome sum if they did that.

    * I say read but in the majority of cases we skim over them and sign them.


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    #19
    dellas1979
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,128 ✭✭✭dellas1979


    I has started a new job. A job Id worked really hard to get.

    Was there 3 months, and I decided Id go to the Christmas party. One of the managers (married/kids) harassed me the whole night. Even followed me into the toilet.

    Frightened the sheit out of me.

    Remember, I was there 3 months. He was there years and was the cool guy.

    Eventually after many sleepless nights, I rationalised with myself that he had been drinking blah blah blah. Until a few weeks later, I was in the office kitchen making a cuppa, I leaned over to get milk in the fridge, and he touched my arse.

    Nearly died. The anxiety of going to work. I had told one girl what was going on, and that I dreaded being in the office alone with him.

    This wierd sheit went on for a few more weeks. Until one evening I was driving home, and I was so worried/not with it that I nearly killed myself when I lost control of my car.

    That woke me up. I went to a senior manager. And I just literally bawled my eyes out. Said thanks for the job but my nerves are shot am so nervous/aware of being left alone with him.

    It was taken 100% seriously. And it was dealt with.

    Some people eventually found out (he was gone at this stage) and oh the judgement. But you know what? I didnt care.

    I found my proverbial lady balls.

    Your friend should definitely complain to HR. If he is slippery as he is, I would (if she can) get some evidence of what is going on. Maybe a recording. Just as a back up. "John Im not comfortable with this".


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    #20
    joeguevara
    Registered Users Posts: 7,993 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    My aunts friend who is the CEO of a factory which is 95% male orientated has been very lucky that she rarely experiences any form of unwanted intention. However she told me of a rep who every time he arrived would try and hug her. She fixed the situation by holding a ruler out straight every time he arrived which made it impossible for him to hug her.

    In your friends situation she has to help herself and by doing nothing only exacerbates the situation and may affect her job. She needs to make a complaint to HR if there is one or to Senior Management outlining the sexual harassment that she is experiencing. Now he may argue that it is/was platonic but no one needs to be hugged or touched at work. Also the sourcing of the relationship since she said something is affecting her professionally and emotionally. Tell her to keep a diary of everything and make a complaint. If she feels she can't then she needs to move department if that's possible or leave the job completely. But if she doesn't confront the situation it may have residual affects. I hope she is ok and you are being a good friend but time for action is now,


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    #21
    The_Honeybadger
    Registered Users Posts: 4,154 ✭✭✭The_Honeybadger


    The advice seems to be to take it to HR and I would agree but be advised that HR exist to protect the company rather than its employees. They will not want a harassment claim against them and depending on the culture of the company your friend could find herself in a worse position than when she started.

    Tell her to have everything written down and make sure there are no holes in her story. Evidence would be good like a witness that will speak up for her.

    The guy sounds like a total creep. She may be better off in the long run just cutting he losses and finding another job if that is feasible.


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    #22
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    She should get a cheap mount for her phone, so she can have it sitting upwards on her desk with the camera facing frontwards. Every time she sees him coming, use the phone to record the interaction.

    After a week or so of "hugs", make a complaint to HR, providing the documentary evidence.

    The act of recording is not illegal and neither the employee nor the company will be in any mood to argue about it.

    One of her big concerns appears to be the "his word against mine" aspect of it, and whether she was complicit. Any video evidence removes that doubt. It's most likely he will just quietly leave the company and that'll be the end of it.


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    #23
    Big Bag of Chips
    Administrators Posts: 13,765 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    Problem with that is if he is asking for hugs, and she's giving them without verbal objection then he can claim she's a willing participant.

    She needs to audible object. She also needs to busy herself and not hug him. At all. She also needs to let someone know that he is likely to cause problems for her. Failing all this she needs to find a new job.


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    #24
    Lux23
    Registered Users Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    Do they have a whistleblower in the company or dignity at work contact? I would contact them before going to HR as they're supposed to be trained at handling tricky situations like this.


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    #25
    dixiefly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,947 ✭✭✭dixiefly


    I dont know if anyone else has suggested this but she should record his advances, get proof and go to HR about it.


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    #26
    xword
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭xword


    I was in a work situation, not like that, but it was basically intolerable because of bullying. I got depressed and then all my friends told me to quit my job. It was the scariest thing at the time, but I haven't looked back. No matter what your friend does with HR, there will always be the attitude from some quarters that it takes two to tango. Having talked to people in similar situations, none of them got a satisfactory response from going to HR.
    You can help your pal by looking for other jobs that would suit her. Unfortunately, bullies nearly always win. Sad fact.


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    #27
    The_Honeybadger
    Registered Users Posts: 4,154 ✭✭✭The_Honeybadger


    xword wrote: »
    I was in a work situation, not like that, but it was basically intolerable because of bullying. I got depressed and then all my friends told me to quit my job. It was the scariest thing at the time, but I haven't looked back. No matter what your friend does with HR, there will always be the attitude from some quarters that it takes two to tango. Having talked to people in similar situations, none of them got a satisfactory response from going to HR.
    You can help your pal by looking for other jobs that would suit her. Unfortunately, bullies nearly always win. Sad fact.

    This echoes what I was saying in a way. There is a perception sometimes that HR are there to advocate for and work on behalf of the staff. It may be partially true but the reality is that they exist mainly to ensure compliance with employment law and to protect the company from legal action.

    I can’t see HR doing anything meaningful for the OP’s friend unless there are a string of complaints against this man and he is on a final warning.


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    #28
    tara73
    Registered Users Posts: 2,342 ✭✭✭tara73


    The_Honeybadger wrote: »
    This echoes what I was saying in a way. There is a perception sometimes that HR are there to advocate for and work on behalf of the staff. It may be partially true but the reality is that they exist mainly to ensure compliance with employment law and to protect the company from legal action.

    Unfortunately, I have to agree with this.
    The_Honeybadger wrote: »
    I can’t see HR doing anything meaningful for the OP’s friend unless there are a string of complaints against this man and he is on a final warning.

    But then, this is throwing the towel without even trying. We don't know the HR department in this company. Maybe they will react and follow procedures. Hopefully, everything else is a disgrace for every company.


    So she definitely needs to report it.


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    #29
    ongarboy
    Registered Users Posts: 5,201 ✭✭✭ongarboy


    joeguevara wrote: »
    My aunts friend who is the CEO of a factory which is 95% male orientated has been very lucky that she rarely experiences any form of unwanted intention. However she told me of a rep who every time he arrived would try and hug her. She fixed the situation by holding a ruler out straight every time he arrived which made it impossible for him to hug her.

    The fact your aunt's friend is a CEO means she has hierarchy on her side so I don't think it's about her being lucky. That's like saying Denis O'Brien is lucky that none of the college interns in his various companies ever bully him. A male subordinate would be very stupid to try it on with his female boss/CEO. Usually sexual harassment is directed at those in a more vulnerable, junior position and whom may be taken less seriously then the perpetrator in such scenarios. Sex pests (like all sex predators) thrive on that imbalance of power.

    OP - your friend will remain in the current situation if she chooses to do nothing about it. I understand she may be terrified but she needs to do something or absolutely nothing will change. Otherwise it's pointless anyone here giving advice if it's going to go unheeded.


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    #30
    spaceHopper
    Registered Users Posts: 3,966 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    Is she worried what her husband will think?

    She needs to document everything, a hidden camera would be good to. She can the give him two choices, never do it again and say out of her way. Any more hugs or complaints about her and she'll take it to the company CEO and his wife. He's a bully he'll sh1t himself.


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