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NFL Protest Discussion

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭TOss Sweep


    notobtuse wrote: »

    Yes. Mike Garafolo clearly said in his report "He was told" so that makes it hearsay no matter how you swing it. Without an official statement from the Eagles themselves or the white house for that matter on the actual numbers supposedly travelling everything on the numbers going is nothing more than hearsay.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,963 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    If Trump was cancelling the White House visit because the majority of the Eagles team were not going to turn up he should have said as much. He didn't. He instead said he was cancelling it because the Eagles disagreed that players should stand of the anthem. Which is an outright lie.

    Anyone questioning the methodology of those protesting should bear this in mind. It literally doesn't matter what they do, there is a large section of the population who will hold it against them anyway. Those people will be on the wrong side of history, just like those who were against Tommie Smith and John Carlos. Bloody hell, are we going to re-write the history books to say that the 1936 Olympics was an epic display of German patriotism???


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,990 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    Suppose Trump still had this in his memory when deciding to cancel the Eagles invite



    More then just Tom Brady didn't go, Bennet, Long, Amendola and I am sure more. Thats just off the top of my head.

    Look, none of this is remotely surprising given the man baby that occupies the White House currently.

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,832 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Nice to see Bidwell of the Cardinals joining Elway in the ranks of absolute hypocrites, telling players to keep politics out of football and then using their teams to drive their own political agenda.

    What they really meant was 'keep your politics out of football'.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,963 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Hypocrisy in the NFL you say? Why I never...


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 828 ✭✭✭JaMarcus


    No deal for Leveon Bell, he'll play under the franchise tag again. His agent says itll likely be his last season as a Steeler.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,743 ✭✭✭raze_them_all_


    JaMarcus wrote: »
    No deal for Leveon Bell, he'll play under the franchise tag again. His agent says itll likely be his last season as a Steeler.

    If he has any sense hell not report till week 11. The Steelers will ride him so hard knowing they ain't resigning him


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 828 ✭✭✭JaMarcus


    I may have posted that in the wrong thread. My bad.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,475 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    Trump wants season long bans for players.

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/american-football/44910040


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Well done NFL, I'm hope you're happy with the outcome of your pandering. Sure there's absolutely no way whatsoever that this was the entirely obvious outcome the moment they lubed up and bent over. It's also illegal for the president of the US to get involved in private businesses affairs, but sure laws stopped mattering in that country over a year ago.


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  • Aaron Rodgers states the point yet again, it is not about the anthem or the troops, it's about inequality and racism...

    https://ijr.com/2018/08/1114877-aaron-rodgers-nfl-protests-origins/


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    It’s kinda hard to explain to people from other countries what the playing of the National Anthem before sporting events means to many Americans. We are comfortable with national imagery, and the playing of the National Anthem before a sporting event conjures up images of what it means to be a patriot and citizen.  It’s not just a song to us.  And kneeling during the playing of the anthem feels very disrespectful to many.  Nobody says the players shouldn’t protest, but during the playing of the anthem before a sporting event is not the appropriate time nor place.  And If the kneeling continues more people will be tuning out of NFL games.  The more that tune out means the less revenue the league receives. The less revenue the league receives means less money paid to players.  Once the players see it affect their pocketbooks the protests will end.  And if the kneeling continues I’ll watch the Jets play and ignore most other games.  I’ll just watch NCAAF, instead... There’s no kneeling there.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭WinnyThePoo


    One of my fav Onion articles

    'I just wish nfl players could find a way to protest without starting a national dialogue'

    https://www.theonion.com/i-just-wish-nfl-players-could-find-a-way-to-protest-wit-1819585036

    Always a good time to quote this Onion article.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭Guffy


    notobtuse wrote: »
    It’s kinda hard to explain to people from other countries what the playing of the National Anthem before sporting events means to many Americans. We are comfortable with national imagery, and the playing of the National Anthem before a sporting event conjures up images of what it means to be a patriot and citizen.  It’s not just a song to us.  And kneeling during the playing of the anthem feels very disrespectful to many.  Nobody says the players shouldn’t protest, but during the playing of the anthem before a sporting event is not the appropriate time nor place.  And If the kneeling continues more people will be tuning out of NFL games.  The more that tune out means the less revenue the league receives. The less revenue the league receives means less money paid to players.  Once the players see it affect their pocketbooks the protests will end.  And if the kneeling continues I’ll watch the Jets play and ignore most other games.  I’ll just watch NCAAF, instead... There’s no kneeling there.

    Revenue is up year on year. Its up by over a billion from 2016 to 2017. Keep the racists that are turning the protest to suit their own agenda. Enjoy the NCAAF


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,510 ✭✭✭Hazys


    notobtuse wrote: »
    It’s kinda hard to explain to people from other countries what the playing of the National Anthem before sporting events means to many Americans.

    You are right, the immense importance of the 9 year tradition of paid patriotism that right wing americans value so much is something nobody outside the US can truly understand or we just see through the BS.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Guffy wrote: »
    notobtuse wrote: »
    It’s kinda hard to explain to people from other countries what the playing of the National Anthem before sporting events means to many Americans. We are comfortable with national imagery, and the playing of the National Anthem before a sporting event conjures up images of what it means to be a patriot and citizen.  It’s not just a song to us.  And kneeling during the playing of the anthem feels very disrespectful to many.  Nobody says the players shouldn’t protest, but during the playing of the anthem before a sporting event is not the appropriate time nor place.  And If the kneeling continues more people will be tuning out of NFL games.  The more that tune out means the less revenue the league receives. The less revenue the league receives means less money paid to players.  Once the players see it affect their pocketbooks the protests will end.  And if the kneeling continues I’ll watch the Jets play and ignore most other games.  I’ll just watch NCAAF, instead... There’s no kneeling there.

    Revenue is up year on year. Its up by over a billion from 2016 to 2017. Keep the racists that are turning the protest to suit their own agenda. Enjoy the NCAAF
    Viewership was down 10% in 2017 from 2016.  The protests are much to blame for the drop.  It will probably drop another 10% if the protests continue.  Lesser viewership leads to lesser revenues.  Just people expressing their disgust for the disrespect of the Anthem.  How is that racist?  And I've come to really enjoy college football... GO BIG-10!

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Hazys wrote: »
    notobtuse wrote: »
    It’s kinda hard to explain to people from other countries what the playing of the National Anthem before sporting events means to many Americans.

    You are right, the immense importance of the 9 year tradition of paid patriotism that right wing americans value so much is something nobody outside the US can truly understand or we just see through the BS.
    Most Americans value the National Anthem, not just right wing Americans.  And you sound a lot like Trump in your nasty opinionated rhetoric.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,743 ✭✭✭raze_them_all_


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Viewership was down 10% in 2017 from 2016.  The protests are much to blame for the drop.  It will probably drop another 10% if the protests continue.  Lesser viewership leads to lesser revenues.  Just people expressing their disgust for the disrespect of the Anthem.  How is that racist?  And I've come to really enjoy college football... GO BIG-10!

    Viewership is down cos it's a day long commitment to watch cos of all the ads, people watch in social gatherings. And that amazing national anthem, do you ever get to the third verse? Not often you hear a national anthem reference slaves


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Viewership was down 10% in 2017 from 2016.  The protests are much to blame for the drop.  It will probably drop another 10% if the protests continue.  Lesser viewership leads to lesser revenues.  Just people expressing their disgust for the disrespect of the Anthem.  How is that racist?  And I've come to really enjoy college football... GO BIG-10!

    Viewership is down cos it's a day long commitment to watch cos of all the ads, people watch in social gatherings. And that amazing national anthem, do you ever get to the third verse? Not often you hear a national anthem reference slaves
    It's a bear to sing and one verse is plenty.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!





  • notobtuse wrote: »
    Just people expressing their disgust for the disrespect of the Anthem.  How is that racist?  And I've come to really enjoy college football... GO BIG-10!

    Because, of course, people like Aaron Rodgers who are very much American and very much understand respect for the anthem, have pointed out that the issue is about racial equality. So it is at least possible argue that those who would actually turn their tv off are either not grasping that...or object to people raising the issue. Let's put it this way, it certainly cannot be ruled out.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,832 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Viewership was down 10% in 2017 from 2016.  The protests are much to blame for the drop.  It will probably drop another 10% if the protests continue.  

    Are you aware that general prime time TV viewership is down around the same percent? I'm sure that must also be related to protests on each show.
    Lesser viewership leads to lesser revenues.  

    NFL just signed a deal with Fox for Thursday night games worth 3 billion which is up on the previous deal. Where's the revenue revenues?
    Just people expressing their disgust for the disrespect of the Anthem.  How is that racist?  

    Ah yes, the same people who express their faux 'disgust' at this while not saying a word about other ways people much more openly disrespect the flag and anthem, from selling flag clothing, sitting on flag beach towels, or the great protector of the anthem Jerry Jones having a chat and leaving his hat on during the anthem (the Cowboys were playing it before training FFS)
    And I've come to really enjoy college football... GO BIG-10!

    'Disgusted' at black men taking a stand (or knee), following the advice of a former green beret in their manner of protest, and now preferring to watch the what are bordering on the modern day slaves that are college football players. Not a surprising turn of events.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭TOss Sweep


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Viewership was down 10% in 2017 from 2016. The protests are much to blame for the drop. It will probably drop another 10% if the protests continue. Lesser viewership leads to lesser revenues. Just people expressing their disgust for the disrespect of the Anthem. How is that racist? And I've come to really enjoy college football... GO BIG-10!


    DeJa Vu I wont bother responding with a new post but with my old post:

    TOss Sweep wrote: »
    TV Viewership based on a research companies finding Nielsen and they can work the numbers all they want they are not a true reflection of TV Viewership in this modern era. Pool of just under 50k homes and using this 50k They work out averages on viewership. They don't account for online viewing or international viewing in the US.

    But having said that what they wont tell is that ALL network television is suffering as per the Nielsen research


    Now having said that 16 of the last 18 Top Events on TV in the US were NFL games. What does that tell you about numbers apparently dropping.

    The NFL and its sponsors are not worried and most if not all of their sponsors have committed long term. Saying tv numbers are dropping is an easy go to when a Network or Media company does something wrong.

    Long story short don't let the Protests killing viewership stories cloud your judgement.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭TOss Sweep


    notobtuse wrote: »
    It’s kinda hard to explain to people from other countries what the playing of the National Anthem before sporting events means to many Americans. We are comfortable with national imagery, and the playing of the National Anthem before a sporting event conjures up images of what it means to be a patriot and citizen. It’s not just a song to us. And kneeling during the playing of the anthem feels very disrespectful to many. Nobody says the players shouldn’t protest, but during the playing of the anthem before a sporting event is not the appropriate time nor place. And If the kneeling continues more people will be tuning out of NFL games. The more that tune out means the less revenue the league receives. The less revenue the league receives means less money paid to players. Once the players see it affect their pocketbooks the protests will end. And if the kneeling continues I’ll watch the Jets play and ignore most other games. I’ll just watch NCAAF, instead... There’s no kneeling there.

    I have lived in the US for a while now and I can tell you there are those who agree with players actions who love their flag country and anthem just as much as you and every other American. I know military guys who agree with the players and I know military guys who do not. I know regular joes who love their country who agree/disagree.

    I can also tell you those who dont agree wont give up their season tickets and still go to games or watch them on tv. All Faux outrage and nothing more than an agenda by the right to say viewership is down due to protests and attendances are down when they are clearly not.

    Those who complain and say they wont watch are nothing more than casual fans or folk who don't watch to begin with.

    I will say though your arrogance and ignorance about those who dont live in the US not understanding how America is Patriotic is just nonsense. You realize Europeans are just as Patriotic about their own countries as Americans are right?

    I will leave it with this the Right are clearly spinning this right now to suit their sad agenda just look at Trumps comments over and over.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Viewership was down 10% in 2017 from 2016.  The protests are much to blame for the drop.  It will probably drop another 10% if the protests continue.  Lesser viewership leads to lesser revenues.  
    TV revenue. I haven't watched an NFL game on TV apart from in a pub in probably 3-4 years. Why? Gamepass. Nobody really gives a sh** about TV ratings anymore in that sense, hence why NFL revenue is on the up and other sports are looking to replicate their model now.

    Because of the NFL's cowardice in this however, I have cancelled Gamepass this year and will be streaming illegally instead. No loss to me.
    Just people expressing their disgust for the disrespect of the Anthem.  How is that racist?  And I've come to really enjoy college football... GO BIG-10!
    Since you're on about being respectful to the flag and anthem, do you know what the US Flag Code is or why Kaepernick was kneeling instead of sitting?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,510 ✭✭✭Hazys




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,434 ✭✭✭Jolly Red Giant


    TOss Sweep wrote: »
    I have lived in the US for a while now and I can tell you there are those who agree with players actions who love their flag country and anthem just as much as you and every other American. I know military guys who agree with the players and I know military guys who do not. I know regular joes who love their country who agree/disagree.

    I can also tell you those who dont agree wont give up their season tickets and still go to games or watch them on tv. All Faux outrage and nothing more than an agenda by the right to say viewership is down due to protests and attendances are down when they are clearly not.

    Those who complain and say they wont watch are nothing more than casual fans or folk who don't watch to begin with.

    I will say though your arrogance and ignorance about those who dont live in the US not understanding how America is Patriotic is just nonsense. You realize Europeans are just as Patriotic about their own countries as Americans are right?

    I will leave it with this the Right are clearly spinning this right now to suit their sad agenda just look at Trumps comments over and over.

    Up until 2009 players weren't required to be on the field for the national anthem. The decision to make players stand on the sidelines was a marketing decision from the NFL.

    On top of that - the Dept of Defence paid the NFL $5.4 million between 2011 and 2014, and the National Guard paid $6.7 million between 2013 and 2015 to stage on-field 'patriotic ceremonies' - including the national anthem - as part of military recruitment budget-line items.The NFL hypes up the 'patriotic' stuff - with parades, flags, fly-overs by jets etc. - yet most of the players come from poor working class backgrounds who would be drafted in a heart-beat and sent off to die in places like Afghanistan or Iraq.

    One thing that really annoyed me are the attempts of the establishment in the US to do the same outside of America. A few years ago I attended a college game in Croke Park between Penn State and UCF. When the US national anthem started I remained seated - I received dogs abuse from the Penn State fans seated around me - it wasn't my anthem and they were in my country. But worse - there were several military displays including a fly-over by a USAF jet. Now if you want to do that sh*te do it in your own country - my country is militarily neutral.


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,330 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    TOss Sweep wrote:
    I will say though your arrogance and ignorance about those who dont live in the US not understanding how America is Patriotic is just nonsense. You realize Europeans are just as Patriotic about their own countries as Americans are right?

    As a matter of fact, based on your view of the Americans you know, I'd say that Europeans are more patriotic because they wouldn't accept somebody disrespecting the national anthem by kneeling. Well at least the large majority of Europeans that I know.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭TOss Sweep


    eagle eye wrote: »
    As a matter of fact, based on your view of the Americans you know, I'd say that Europeans are more patriotic because they wouldn't accept somebody disrespecting the national anthem by kneeling. Well at least the large majority of Europeans that I know.

    I disagree. It would be the exactly the same as the US. Some will agree and some will disagree. But one thing you wont get is politicians or presidents getting involved telling people what they should and shouldn't be doing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭TOss Sweep


    Up until 2009 players weren't required to be on the field for the national anthem. The decision to make players stand on the sidelines was a marketing decision from the NFL.

    ........

    ........

    Not sure why you quoted me as your response has nothing to do about what I said.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭ Miriam Rough Snow


    TOss Sweep wrote: »
    I disagree. It would be the exactly the same as the US. Some will agree and some will disagree. But one thing you wont get is politicians or presidents getting involved telling people what they should and shouldn't be doing.
    I think it’d be lower. There’s a wall out the back of my place that’s way older than the US flag. There’s buildings/monuments/statues... that predate a lot of flags.
    Of course there’s plenty of nationalists, but their flag is such a small part of their history.


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