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Feedback thread for PI, RI & Bereavement

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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,409 Mod ✭✭✭✭woodchuck


    Thanks for providing this input and personally I agree that this seems to be a growing issue on boards (and in society...).

    I've dealt with the post in question now - sorry for the delay, just given the time of year, it's naturally taking a little longer to react to the reports.

    We always try to step in where appropriate and I would encourage posters to continue to report these types of posts. All of these reports are reviewed. This can take time though and sometimes the mod team need to discuss to decide what action to take, if any. Sometimes our hands are tied: e.g. if we don't like the tone of a post, but they haven't technically broken a rule. It can be a little frustrating I have to say, but we do try to keep an eye on posters who are walking the line and jump in where we can.

    That's just my two cents anyway, other mods might jump in with their thoughts too!


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,314 Mod ✭✭✭✭HildaOgdenx


    Caranica wrote: »
    I've been meaning to post this for ages but having seen a comment posted 5 hours ago that called the op a prostitute while not using that word, it's pushed me over the edge.

    The open and veiled misogyny on these supposedly supportive forums of late is mind blowing.Women are automatically cheating, and accused of all sorts if a guy has any doubts. While some of the doubts might be well founded, the language, tone and assumptions have been downright horrible. These fora are supposed to be safe place. They don't feel that way lately.


    I agree with pp that this is becoming very common indeed all across boards.

    PI also, of late, seems to have attracted posters who treat it as if it's AH, and make (often snide) comments, as opposed to offering advice.

    I usually report when I see something I am concerned about. I am aware of course that mods are volunteers.

    I think a lot of solid advice is given in PI, and that it is an important part of boards, overall. Hopefully it can continue to be.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    leggo wrote: »
    My own thoughts are to allow people to air their views and engage with them and show them that they’re wrong, even if it’s ugly. They may never publicly admit that they’re wrong, but they’ll have nowhere to go with their POV and you can convince a lot of the middle ground that way. Relating it back to PI, of course you have to be mindful of the serious stakes some of these threads have and adjust accordingly, eg if an OP may be suicidal etc. There’s a balancing act, for sure, and while I probably largely am appalled by similar things to you Caranica, I’m never in favour of “ban opinions I don’t like” simply because it’s a proven ineffective way of dealing with them. If you see something you don’t like, educate the person who said it.

    This puts the onus on genuine posters (who are here to ask for or offer advice) to serve as social educators and troll defence force, with all the vitriol it involves. Debating such posters gets tiring very quickly and pushes advice content aside therefore it can easily smother the board. Even if everyone wanted to do this extra work and was not discouraged by it it's idealistic to think that educators can win with determined ****posters, or that they should even volunteer their time to try. It's not the point of PI/RI after all.

    Even more importantly, new posters coming for advice will see the vibe and back out. Who would like to share their problem here seeing how others were treated?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭ Dayton Low Cardinal


    woodchuck wrote: »
    Thanks for providing this input and personally I agree that this seems to be a growing issue on boards (and in society...).

    I've dealt with the post in question now - sorry for the delay, just given the time of year, it's naturally taking a little longer to react to the reports.

    We always try to step in where appropriate and I would encourage posters to continue to report these types of posts. All of these reports are reviewed. This can take time though and sometimes the mod team need to discuss to decide what action to take, if any. Sometimes our hands are tied: e.g. if we don't like the tone of a post, but they haven't technically broken a rule. It can be a little frustrating I have to say, but we do try to keep an eye on posters who are walking the line and jump in where we can.

    That's just my two cents anyway, other mods might jump in with their thoughts too!

    This is probably tricky, but are other posters encouraged to report those posts? I've often seen ones that I know are skirting the line (and probably made with very good knowledge of where that line is), and that I know are coming from posters who consistently or almost exclusively post like that but I'd be hesitant to report them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭ Dayton Low Cardinal


    I agree with pp that this is becoming very common indeed all across boards.

    PI also, of late, seems to have attracted posters who treat it as if it's AH, and make (often snide) comments, as opposed to offering advice.

    I usually report when I see something I am concerned about. I am aware of course that mods are volunteers.

    I think a lot of solid advice is given in PI, and that it is an important part of boards, overall. Hopefully it can continue to be.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again, get rid of the thanks function on PI and watch all them just melt away along with the majority of the "tough love" brigade, guarantee it.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    This is probably tricky, but are other posters encouraged to report those posts? I've often seen ones that I know are skirting the line (and probably made with very good knowledge of where that line is), and that I know are coming from posters who consistently or almost exclusively post like that but I'd be hesitant to report them.

    That's a great question, if there are guidelines for reporting I missed them. There is a lot up these days that seems to be against the charter. There was a post up yesterday advising an OP to "spit in that slut's face" (his cheating ex's) and punch her new partner; I almost reported it but then I saw other posts after it quoting and engaging with it so I wasn't sure where the line is these days :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,991 ✭✭✭Caranica


    strandroad wrote: »
    That's a great question, if there are guidelines for reporting I missed them. There is a lot up these days that seems to be against the charter. There was a post up yesterday advising an OP to "spit in that slut's face" (his cheating ex's) and punch her new partner; I almost reported it but then I saw other posts after it quoting and engaging with it so I wasn't sure where the line is these days :(
    I reported that one. That post is a classic example of what's changed with PI and RI and not in a good way!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1 Sir Alex Ferguson 2019


    Where are all the moderators gone? This forum has really gone to the dogs recently and it appears to be coinciding with most of the mods not being around. This forum is one that needs a lot of moderation and that is quite a workload on volunteers. Do boards.ie have any standby moderators who can step into the breach when the full-time Personal Issues ones aren't around? There have been so many objectionable posts here recently, somebody is going to have to do a serious clean-up.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,314 Mod ✭✭✭✭HildaOgdenx


    Where are all the moderators gone? This forum has really gone to the dogs recently and it appears to be coinciding with most of the mods not being around. This forum is one that needs a lot of moderation and that is quite a workload on volunteers. Do boards.ie have any standby moderators who can step into the breach when the full-time Personal Issues ones aren't around? There have been so many objectionable posts here recently, somebody is going to have to do a serious clean-up.

    Interesting question. I notice that mods are a lot less visible across boards over the last while.

    No disrespect to those who are holding the fort, btw.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,991 ✭✭✭Caranica


    Interesting question. I notice that mods are a lot less visible across boards over the last while.

    No disrespect to those who are holding the fort, btw.

    This time of year is when real life gets a bit mental and people have commitments so like most of us they're probably not online so much. As a former mod of a forum here I know that sometimes you just need to take a break too, it can take hours every day if you let it.


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  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,314 Mod ✭✭✭✭HildaOgdenx


    Caranica wrote: »
    This time of year is when real life gets a bit mental and people have commitments so like most of us they're probably not online so much. As a former mod of a forum here I know that sometimes you just need to take a break too, it can take hours every day if you let it.

    I have noticed it for quite some time. Not just this time of year. And not just on PI.

    And as I said, no disrespect to the mods. I'm aware that they are volunteers and do trojan work.

    It's probably something boards needs to address tbh.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,653 Mod ✭✭✭✭Faith


    Just to say, mods are very thin on the ground at the moment given the time of year. Everyone is trying their best but other things do tend to take priority at Christmas. Please do keep reporting posts and the mods will get to them as soon as they can.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,314 Mod ✭✭✭✭HildaOgdenx


    I just want to make clear I am not in any way presuming mods should be on boards all year round.

    I am aware, as I said previously, that they are volunteers, and actually have lives :)

    And once again, I want to add, the mods in PI do a great job.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,509 ✭✭✭Purgative


    I've said it before and I'll say it again, get rid of the thanks function on PI and watch all them just melt away along with the majority of the "tough love" brigade, guarantee it.


    Hi electro, I usually agree with ye but not so much here.


    1) Doesn't that then clutter up the threads with a load of "+1" or "that's what I was going to say".


    2) Thanks is good way of indicating that which IMHO represents good advice in a thread I probably wouldn't post in.


    Another way might be to remove posts in PI et al from the post count. So that those seeking bask in adoration from a large post count see no point in posting shoite in PI to that end?


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,318 ✭✭✭✭Dial Hard


    I really think some temp mods need to be tagged in for periods such as the last week or so. I realise it's Christmas and mods have lives outside Boards but the place has gone to the dogs over the Christmas period with the standard of posting.

    You do sterling work and I'm genuinely not having a personal pop at anyone but it just seems mad to me that the most sensitive place on Boards essentially gets left unattended for the duration of the holidays. It's incredibly frustrating reporting post after post of risible troll nonsense knowing you're just shouting into the void.

    There has been much discussion lately over the influx of questionable posters in recent months and they're essentially running riot at the moment while the cats are away. If it goes on much longer you're going to start losing genuine posters and OPs.

    Sorry if all that comes across as an anti-mod rant, it's not, it's frustration at a system which clearly relies too much on too few people. Can admins not step in if they see a particular forum is generating a load of reports and that none of the mods are around?


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    Gotta agree sadly, one thread turned into people trying to prove the OP was lying, another turned into people talking inappropriately to a vulnerable 17-year old. That’s just what I saw myself. Not a great look. Could there be something done to plan around the time of year and people’s decreased availability? This is one of the few forums here where you get vulnerable people reaching out at an exact time of need so that going wrong can have very dire consequences. And there’s a few repeat offenders I think bans would be in order for considering they never show any attempt to help the OP and only show up to create, or add to, a ****show.

    Similarly, not a criticism of the current mods. Just an acknowledgement that they may need more support.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,653 Mod ✭✭✭✭Faith


    Dial Hard wrote: »
    I really think some temp mods need to be tagged in for periods such as the last week or so. I realise it's Christmas and mods have lives outside Boards but the place has gone to the dogs over the Christmas period with the standard of posting.

    You do sterling work and I'm genuinely not having a personal pop at anyone but it just seems mad to me that the most sensitive place on Boards essentially gets left unattended for the duration of the holidays. It's incredibly frustrating reporting post after post of risible troll nonsense knowing you're just shouting into the void.

    There has been much discussion lately over the influx of questionable posters in recent months and they're essentially running riot at the moment while the cats are away. If it goes on much longer you're going to start losing genuine posters and OPs.

    Sorry if all that comes across as an anti-mod rant, it's not, it's frustration at a system which clearly relies too much on too few people. Can admins not step in if they see a particular forum is generating a load of reports and that none of the mods are around?

    I can only speak from my perspective, of course, and I do agree with what you’re saying. But I’ve been trying to cover for the local mods and it’s really tricky as PI is modded in a very specific way and it takes a while to get into the swing of it. It’s not quite as easy as, say, the Food forum! Each decision takes a lot longer and that limits how much one person can do.

    In terms of temporary mods, it’s simply not possible right now because of the bureaucracy that goes into adding moderators. There are several steps that need to be gone through when giving someone mod powers, and it requires input from local mods, CMods, and admins.

    To put things in perspective, perhaps, I’ve only seen one admin be consistently online over the past few weeks. I’m not sure where the others are, but I’m sure they have good reasons for being less visible right now. Unfortunately, that does leave a gap though, and often the things that take people offline can’t be planned for.

    In the Soc category, we’re down two CMods right now. I’m the only active CMod left who’s not already a mod of PI, so that only leaves me to step in when needed.

    I agree, this past week has been messy in PI and that ideally shouldn’t happen. But it’s more of a systemic issue, and there’s a real limit to what can be done by unpaid volunteers. We are actively looking to add more moderators to PI and hopefully we can learn from this year to try to make sure similar doesn’t happen next year.


  • Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    I'm going to hold my hand up here to say I was offline much of Christmas due to personal circumstances/work. I had given fellow mods the heads up that real life required my attention but I think I understated how little I'd be around as it turned out. I underestimated it myself tbh.



    So apologies to everyone for my absence, and I'll try to make up for it as best I can now by getting stuck in and help with getting new mods on board as soon as we can and then supporting them as they settle in to the job.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭wiggle16


    Same here. I was sick for the last couple of weeks and through christmas and had a lot going on otherwise, though in hindsight I should have made it clear I wasn't in the headspace for Boards and would be absent. Apologies all. Thanks as well Faith for stepping in of late :)

    I'll come back to this thread later as theres a couple of points I want to reply to properly as well.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,314 Mod ✭✭✭✭HildaOgdenx


    Neyite and wiggle, you and all of the mods in PI do a great job.

    I think boards HQ needs to look at a solution for really busy / holiday periods.

    Of course you need time away, and that should be a given, in an unpaid volunteer role, especially in PI which requires heavy moderation.

    I hope that you are better wiggle.

    All the best to both of you and all of the PI mods for 2020.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭wiggle16


    I'm sorry for coming back to this so late.
    Caranica wrote: »
    I've been meaning to post this for ages but having seen a comment posted 5 hours ago that called the op a prostitute while not using that word, it's pushed me over the edge.

    The open and veiled misogyny on these supposedly supportive forums of late is mind blowing. Women are automatically cheating, and accused of all sorts if a guy has any doubts. While some of the doubts might be well founded, the language, tone and assumptions have been downright horrible. These fora are supposed to be safe place. They don't feel that way lately.

    I realise woodchuck has already addressed this but I just wanted to say I agree with you both. While it appears to be site wide, there has been an increase in the amount of misogynistic drivel bleeding into PI over the last while. Needless to say, no, it's not acceptable.

    Sexist language and generalisations about women (or either sex, for that matter) are not on in PI - I like to think that we catch most of these but it can be hard to keep up and there will be posts we miss. The trouble arises where you have an "are they cheating on me?" thread where the OP is male and the "antagonist" in their issue is female. These threads can attract a certain kind of poster, as we have seen.

    The trouble I have is this: posters who use sexist language can be modded quite easily. Posters who generalise can be addressed also. But posts which skirt the line by going medieval on the individual lady specifically are harder to tackle - it can be difficult to tell if the poster is genuinely indignant at the individual's behaviour, or if the tone of their post is motivated by their own attitude to women, ie, would they be posting at all if the offender were male. And sometimes it isn't hard to tell, but impossible to use as grounds for a mod action.

    If it were a matter of one or two posts like that in a thread, it would be one thing. But where a lot of posters skirt the line in the above way, or you get multiple variations of "Wake up dude, she's definitely cheating on you, and she's probably been at it with multiple lads since day one fapfapfapfap" the thread will take on that tone and it's very difficult to turn it back around - and that kind of wording only hints at the actual slur the poster is trying to imply. As woodchuck says, they strictly speaking haven't broken any rules even though it's clearly not okay.

    I'm not offering any of the above as an excuse, to be clear, but to illustrate why it is so hard to tackle on the whole. The problem is one of scale, and of the difficulty of implicitness versus inference in the case of veiled misogyny.

    Notwithstanding all the above, I'm going to try to take a tougher line with it and see if there's anything else we can do to deal with it.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭wiggle16


    This is probably tricky, but are other posters encouraged to report those posts? I've often seen ones that I know are skirting the line (and probably made with very good knowledge of where that line is), and that I know are coming from posters who consistently or almost exclusively post like that but I'd be hesitant to report them.

    Absolutely do report them if you feel it's warranted. Whether we can act on them or not is another issue but if a post is unreported there is every chance it may slip through.
    leggo wrote: »
    I’m never in favour of “ban opinions I don’t like” simply because it’s a proven ineffective way of dealing with them. If you see something you don’t like, educate the person who said it.
    strandroad wrote: »
    Even more importantly, new posters coming for advice will see the vibe and back out. Who would like to share their problem here seeing how others were treated?

    Leggo, I 100% agree with you, and you're right - it is million times better to tell someone why they are wrong than to just tell them to shut up. But Strandroad makes an excellent point in the above post. PI isn't a discussion forum in the same way as other parts of Boards are and it will not be a useful or welcoming place for people to come for advice if it becomes one. But besides that, the majority of sexist shut-ins/"incels"/arseholes just aren't going to be swayed by arguments to the contrary - and the ability to have such arguments is what attracts them to fora in the first place.
    You're right though, it's a reflection of the way things have gone in the West over the last few years, unfortunately :(
    strandroad wrote: »
    That's a great question, if there are guidelines for reporting I missed them. There is a lot up these days that seems to be against the charter. There was a post up yesterday advising an OP to "spit in that slut's face" (his cheating ex's) and punch her new partner; I almost reported it but then I saw other posts after it quoting and engaging with it so I wasn't sure where the line is these days :(

    I did not see this post - that's off the wall. Where is it?
    leggo wrote: »
    Could there be something done to plan around the time of year and people’s decreased availability? This is one of the few forums here where you get vulnerable people reaching out at an exact time of need so that going wrong can have very dire consequences.
    I'll see if there is anything we can come up with. As Faith said, the addition of new mods (which hopefully won't take too long) should make it less likely to happen again.
    I just want to make clear I am not in any way presuming mods should be on boards all year round.

    No no, we wouldn't take that impression from the feedback thread at all, don't worry. The trouble is the ball did get dropped in this case, particularly by me myself - I should have made it clear I wasn't about and I didn't.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭ Dayton Low Cardinal


    wiggle16 wrote: »
    Absolutely do report them if you feel it's warranted. Whether we can act on them or not is another issue but if a post is unreported there is every chance it may slip through.

    Something that I feel might be helpful there is a bit more specificity when mod action is taken. I can imagine how the diplomatically worded "falls below the standard" line came to be used, but the charter for PI/RI while comprehensive is vaguely worded. Rather than "not acceptable, link to the charter", "not acceptable because of this point in the charter" would give me for one a better yardstick to measure other posts against.

    I very rarely report posts here, I'm hesitant to be a nuisance and I probably overthink whether or not I just find a post or poster personally objectionable or whether they're actually out of line for the forum. I'm going to make a conscious effort to report more though because yes, things have gotten nasty lately.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    wiggle16 wrote: »
    I did not see this post - that's off the wall. Where is it?

    Thanks for your clarifications wiggle, very helpful. And thank you for the cleanup mods, I can see that some ****posters were put back in their boxes.

    That post was removed thankfully, but you can see a quote here:
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112108491&postcount=166


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,314 Mod ✭✭✭✭HildaOgdenx


    Just to add, mods, thanks to all of you, for being so open to feedback.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,314 Mod ✭✭✭✭HildaOgdenx


    I very rarely report posts here, I'm hesitant to be a nuisance and I probably overthink whether or not I just find a post or poster personally objectionable or whether they're actually out of line for the forum. I'm going to make a conscious effort to report more though because yes, things have gotten nasty lately.

    The ones I consistently report are the one liners where no advice is given to the OP, (who might have had to pluck up a lot of courage to post, in the first place), and are met with responses suited to AH. :(

    I know what you mean about being hesitant about being a nuisance. I felt, under my previous usernames that I was in danger of that, so I don't report much anymore apart from what I have mentioned above.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,318 ✭✭✭✭Dial Hard


    I report *err'thing* I think is questionable and let the mods make the call on it. I'd say they think I'm an insufferable pain in the arse but I'd rather that than have stuff potentially slip through the cracks because everyone is too afraid to use a system that's there for that very reason.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭wiggle16


    Dial Hard wrote: »
    I'd say they think I'm an insufferable pain in the arse but I'd rather that than have stuff potentially slip through the cracks because everyone is too afraid to use a system that's there for that very reason.

    :pac: :pac: :pac: no, we don't think that, but even if you were in danger of becoming same, that's not a reason not to report things :) that's exactly what it's for.

    If someone was reporting incessantly and it was a problem, we would ask them to stop, and that would be the end of it. To my recollection it's not actually ever been a problem, except by some posters in the past deliberately abusing it but that's a completely different issue.

    The report function is important because it helps us not only tackle individual posts where necessary, but also can help us in noticing patterns of behaviour among posters who don't have the best interests of the forum in mind, which we might not otherwise spot - duplicate accounts, re-reg's, sock puppeting etc.

    No one is obliged to make reports obviously but don't be afraid to point out if you think something needs to be looked at, it all helps.

    The most important thing of course is that you enjoy using the forum. If reporting posts is not your thing, that's fine too - we would never think "Oh, so-and-so is well able to criticise in the feedback thread but hasn't reported a post in months" or something like that.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭wiggle16


    I know what you mean about being hesitant about being a nuisance. I felt, under my previous usernames that I was in danger of that, so I don't report much anymore apart from what I have mentioned above.

    As above, no, you would definitely not be considered a nuisance - so don't be worrying about that. If it happens that there is nothing wrong with a particular reported post, it's fine, it's not seen as wasting time or anything like that :)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,679 ✭✭✭Princess Calla


    This will probably be a no :) But I'll ask anyway :)

    I've reported posts and I've seen them actioned...Might be identifying information and I've seen it snipped, so that's grand, or the mod bold print will appear :)

    However there's been one or two times where no action was taken...which again is fine....however it would "have been nice" not the right phrase but can't think of another way of putting it... To receive an acknowledgement that the report was seen but no further action was warranted. Just a one liner. It would also give a clearer picture of what to/not report ..... But I appreciate the workload that might generate.


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