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Rugby combine in USA

  • 21-04-2014 2:20pm
    #1
    davegrohl48
    Registered Users Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭


    Suprised wasn't posted but Eddie OSullivan has been involved in organising the first rugby combine in USA. Story featured on thescore.ie
    On mobile so awkward to post link.
    Munster and Ulster sent over mgmt to have a look over players. Interesting comment was that all the ex-nfl players who tried out completed the endurance test. Generally there was an outstanding level of athleticism displayed by some players. One player was indeed signed. Intention is to run this rugby combine regularly. It was noted outside centre, wing and backrow were possible positions suitable for these guys. I could see some of them being used as a late try scoring option close to the line late in games. Use them off the bench till they develop more. They'll only be able to develop basic passing n kicking skills at this age but I think if Eddie OSullivan can see a future in this n clubs are signing players its only going to grow. Generally noted that would not be able to develop props. Suprised me, think surely 2 years of practice could get someone scrummaging well who might be athletic n 19 stone.


Comments

  • #2
    Neil3030
    Registered Users Posts: 16,971 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    I don't see this being all that fruitful an endeavour. The structure of the collegiate system and entry into the NFL means guys will be 22 or 23 before they give up their dream of playing football, and even then, they will likely try their arm in the Canadian league or Arena football before considering rugby.

    Given that a high proportion of these guys will be college educated, the sample gets smaller again as to who would want to switch codes.

    Out of whoever is then left, you then have to get them drilled on the basics of passing and tackling, before considering more complicated things like positioning and moves.

    These lads will be very athletic, but there's as much logic in trying to convert a sprinter or a powerlifter to a rugby player imo.


  • #3
    davegrohl48
    Registered Users Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭davegrohl48


    Neil3030 wrote: »
    I don't see this being all that fruitful an endeavour. The structure of the collegiate system and entry into the NFL means guys will be 22 or 23 before they give up their dream of playing football, and even then, they will likely try their arm in the Canadian league or Arena football before considering rugby.

    Given that a high proportion of these guys will be college educated, the sample gets smaller again as to who would want to switch codes.

    Out of whoever is then left, you then have to get them drilled on the basics of passing and tackling, before considering more complicated things like positioning and moves.

    These lads will be very athletic, but there's as much logic in trying to convert a sprinter or a powerlifter to a rugby player imo.
    A sprinter or powerlifter has never been involved in high level field sports. These guys have and there was plenty of them. Age is correct will generally be 24 or older. Positioning or tackling wont be that big a problem. For one they are coming from a sport where you have to study in minute detail positioning and then go and execute it in practice. Both defensively and offensively depending on whether were offensive or defensive player. Tackling they can learn. They're not starting from zero it is a major adjustment to their usual tackle but they've got a base. Kicking n passing their ceiling is just basic level. But I could see some good locks come out of this. Provise grunt in the scrum n just get around the pitch making tackles and being devastating ball carriers.


  • #4
    Liveforrugby
    Registered Users Posts: 343 ✭✭Liveforrugby


    Neil3030 wrote: »
    I don't see this being all that fruitful an endeavour. The structure of the collegiate system and entry into the NFL means guys will be 22 or 23 before they give up their dream of playing football, and even then, they will likely try their arm in the Canadian league or Arena football before considering rugby.

    Given that a high proportion of these guys will be college educated, the sample gets smaller again as to who would want to switch codes.

    Out of whoever is then left, you then have to get them drilled on the basics of passing and tackling, before considering more complicated things like positioning and moves.

    These lads will be very athletic, but there's as much logic in trying to convert a sprinter or a powerlifter to a rugby player imo.

    Lol buthurt,

    There are ~ 85 athletic scholarships given out by division 1 schools, ie the best football schools in the country. There are 118 division 1 schools = ~ 10,000 football athletes which are far bigger stronger and faster than anthing you see in pro rugby.

    500 go to the nfl, leaving 9,500 athletes PER YEAR. That doesn't even include divison 2, 3, or 4 schools or athletes not on financial schemes. I'm talking about the cream of crop.

    #rekt

    Why don't we have combines in rugby? Would be very interesting to watch


  • #5
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Historically they haven't adapted at all well to the sport. But that isn't to say it won't change, and the onus is on the coaches to bring them up to the level required.

    They don't have combines in rugby because the game isn't a whore to the media in the same way that the NFL is. There's not a huge amount of benefit from the combine even in the US, it's a media day to build up for the draft. Rugby has no need for it in established nations, however it's a good idea to get people together for in the US and build the profile of the sport in a way that the locals can understand.


  • #6
    Stev_o
    Registered Users Posts: 9,249 ✭✭✭Stev_o


    Neil3030 wrote: »
    I don't see this being all that fruitful an endeavour. The structure of the collegiate system and entry into the NFL means guys will be 22 or 23 before they give up their dream of playing football, and even then, they will likely try their arm in the Canadian league or Arena football before considering rugby.

    Given that a high proportion of these guys will be college educated, the sample gets smaller again as to who would want to switch codes.

    Out of whoever is then left, you then have to get them drilled on the basics of passing and tackling, before considering more complicated things like positioning and moves.

    These lads will be very athletic, but there's as much logic in trying to convert a sprinter or a powerlifter to a rugby player imo.

    Debatable....but that could be a completely different thread.

    I think the idea is more to expose people to Rugby and saying "You have this other choice after finishing college to play a professional sport"


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  • #7
    davegrohl48
    Registered Users Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭davegrohl48


    Liveforrugby wrote: »
    Lol buthurt,

    There are ~ 85 athletic scholarships given out by division 1 schools, ie the best football schools in the country. There are 118 division 1 schools = ~ 10,000 football athletes which are far bigger stronger and faster than anthing you see in pro rugby.

    500 go to the nfl, leaving 9,500 athletes PER YEAR. That doesn't even include divison 2, 3, or 4 schools or athletes not on financial schemes. I'm talking about the cream of crop.

    #rekt

    Why don't we have combines in rugby? Would be very interesting to watch
    Well the more important numbers are those athletes who turned up at this first combine and showed the athleticism, base skills and attitude/coachability for rugby. You would imagine the numbers at the next nrfl combine will be much larger. Similarly the interest from clubs will be higher as no one likes to feel missing the boat. Margus Hunt of NFL if he featured at a combine he'd be signed instantly as a lock. 6'8" with a 37" vertical weighs almost 20 stone and can run 40 yards in 4.60 seconds flat. All while completing agility drills quite smoothly for a guy that size. Does not look overbulked that would not at least last a game changing 60 minutes.


  • #8
    d2ww
    Closed Accounts Posts: 501 ✭✭✭d2ww


    OP, what exactly is a combine?
    Thanks.


  • #9
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    d2ww wrote: »
    OP, what exactly is a combine?
    Thanks.

    It's a concept from American Football.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_Scouting_Combine

    Effectively the best prospects for the NFL draft get an invitation to the combine and they then get put through their paces by scouts over a few days. They are measured in every conceivable category and then the scouts use this information to decide whether or not they are worth a punt in the professional game.


  • #10
    razorblunt
    Registered Users Posts: 17,300 ✭✭✭✭razorblunt


    Rather than looking at collegiate they should focus a stage earlier and try those who didn't make college football from high school, not too late to catch a few like Ben Morgan, John Hayes and co.


  • #11
    Thomas D
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 554 ✭✭✭Thomas D


    razorblunt wrote: »
    Rather than looking at collegiate they should focus a stage earlier and try those who didn't make college football from high school, not too late to catch a few like Ben Morgan, John Hayes and co.

    They won't be great athletes if they didn't make a college side. There are huge numbers of lads that have no professional prospects after college. Plenty of these wouldn't have brilliant prospects off the pitch either due to their backgrounds.

    Rugby could always pick up a guy like this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceBCDiRA1zA


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  • #12
    davegrohl48
    Registered Users Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭davegrohl48


    d2ww wrote: »
    OP, what exactly is a combine?
    Thanks.
    Heavily linked to the NFL draft training camp on live television basically. The big two monitored are the 40 yard time and vertical leap. Then the weight and height of the players.
    To give perspective a 4.3 - 4.4 forty is what the wide receivers, running backs and corner backs will run. However lately there are some really big guys running under 4.7 giving many possibilities of where could play them. Then there is starting to be some recruitment out of field events from young junior Olympians or first time Olympians. Personally I think it has gone too far when a sport is recruiting people who've never played the sport out of Olympic programs. Thats just admitting there is nothing really to many of the positions other than raw size n power. All the breaks in play (more than ever) allows it to be far too power n size based.


  • #13
    d2ww
    Closed Accounts Posts: 501 ✭✭✭d2ww


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    It's a concept from American Football.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_Scouting_Combine

    Effectively the best prospects for the NFL draft get an invitation to the combine and they then get put through their paces by scouts over a few days. They are measured in every conceivable category and then the scouts use this information to decide whether or not they are worth a punt in the professional game.

    Thanks, lived over there for five years and I never heard of it before. Then again, I never had the patience to spend over three hours watching a sixty minute game!


  • #14
    davegrohl48
    Registered Users Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭davegrohl48


    Thomas D wrote: »
    They won't be great athletes if they didn't make a college side. There are huge numbers of lads that have no professional prospects after college. Plenty of these wouldn't have brilliant prospects off the pitch either due to their backgrounds.

    Rugby could always pick up a guy like this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceBCDiRA1zA
    Just finished watching that, interesting story


  • #15
    razorblunt
    Registered Users Posts: 17,300 ✭✭✭✭razorblunt


    Thomas D wrote: »
    They won't be great athletes if they didn't make a college side. There are huge numbers of lads that have no professional prospects after college. Plenty of these wouldn't have brilliant prospects off the pitch either due to their backgrounds.

    Rugby could always pick up a guy like this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceBCDiRA1zA

    I hear you, but what age would they be leaving High School, 17/18?
    I just think that by overlooking these kids they're missing a trick or two, they don't need to find the next Carlin Isles or Todd Clever.

    Will check that link out tonight when I get home from work.


  • #16
    Sangre
    Registered Users Posts: 12,150 ✭✭✭✭Sangre


    Liveforrugby wrote: »
    Why don't we have combines in rugby? Would be very interesting to watch

    It would be interesting but American Football relies on pure athleticism much more than rugby and therefore a combine isn't as relevant.


  • #17
    Thomas D
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 554 ✭✭✭Thomas D


    Funnily enough the big american football club in Dublin run an annual combine looking for rugby and GAA players that could crossover.


  • #18
    who_me
    Registered Users Posts: 3,669 ✭✭✭who_me


    Sangre wrote: »
    It would be interesting but American Football relies on pure athleticism much more than rugby and therefore a combine isn't as relevant.

    Historically that's true, but it might change as more and more money pours into the sport.

    Sure, you might back a talented, well-trained player to beat "an athlete" any day; but a talented, well-trained athlete will beat anyone.


  • #19
    Stan27
    Registered Users Posts: 528 ✭✭✭Stan27


    Anyone ever think what the U.S. Would be like if they really got big into rugby union. They could be unstoppable with their player pool and wealth.


  • #20
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,618 ✭✭✭nerd69


    Stan27 wrote: »
    Anyone ever think what the U.S. Would be like if they really got big into rugby union. They could be unstoppable with their player pool and wealth.

    Reigning Olympic champions in rugby.

    They would dominate probably more so than nz


  • #21
    Stan27
    Registered Users Posts: 528 ✭✭✭Stan27


    nerd69 wrote: »
    Reigning Olympic champions in rugby.

    They would dominate probably more so than nz

    Well yes that's makes sense. They have the money/ players pool.


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  • #22
    Deano7788
    Registered Users Posts: 2,693 ✭✭✭Deano7788


    nerd69 wrote: »
    Reigning Olympic champions in rugby.

    Since 1924 :pac: (When only themselves, Romania and France entered a team).


  • #23
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,618 ✭✭✭nerd69


    Deano7788 wrote: »
    Since 1924 :pac: (When only themselves, Romania and France entered a team).

    Champs for 90 years how many teams can say that


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