Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread III

Micky Dolenz · 14-08-2013 4:45pm

molloyjh wrote: »

Well if that is the case then maybe you could actually articulate exactly what it was the Penney did differently at the latter part of the season that was so improved (despite the results in the Pro12 games in the second half of the season). You know, the question Ugo has been trying to get an answer to for the best part of the afternoon.

I'm quite sure Ugo is not addressing me. you know.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience · 14-08-2013 4:50pm

Rightwing wrote: »

The performances were there against the big teams. That's the main thing for me. But to answer your question, time will tell I suppose.

You realise we only beat Quins? A Quins team who were hugely overhyped before we played them

What big teams did we perform against? Losing to Leinster at home isn't a performance either

Rightwing · 14-08-2013 4:52pm

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

You realise we only beat Quins? A Quins team who were hugely overhyped before we played them

What big teams did we perform against? Losing to Leinster at home isn't a performance either

Quins were top seeds. No mean feat trouncing them at home.

Rattled Clermont so badly, they got jitters for the rest of the season and ended up with nought.

jm08 · 14-08-2013 4:55pm

former legend wrote: »

But they lost. At home. To Leinster. Again.

Is it enough to be "competitive" against your arch rival in what used to be the most impenetrable home ground in Europe?

The league was a lost cause because they were so poor. Munster played 10 league games after Christmas; won three, drew one, lost six.

So I'd question whether there was any improvement at all, that's all I'm saying

No Earls or ROG - Archer & Killer up against Ross & Healy! Not sure Munster were taking the game as seriously as you think they should !

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience · 14-08-2013 4:55pm

Rightwing wrote: »

Quins were top seeds. No mean feat trouncing them at home.

Rattled Clermont so badly, they got jitters for the rest of the season and ended up with nought.

Quins were top seeds because they had Zebre/Connacht and Biarritz in their group.

Again, while we gave Clermont a run, we didn't beat them.

So I ask, again, what performances have we put in against big sides?

Rightwing · 14-08-2013 4:59pm

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Quins were top seeds because they had Zebre/Connacht and Biarritz in their group.

Again, while we gave Clermont a run, we didn't beat them.

So I ask, again, what performances have we put in against big sides?

A performance and a win aren't mutually exclusive. So to lose away to Clermont can be called a performance,,,and a damn good one at that.

Quins and to a lesser extent leinster.

Podge_irl · 14-08-2013 4:59pm

Rightwing wrote: »

Quins were top seeds. No mean feat trouncing them at home.

Rattled Clermont so badly, they got jitters for the rest of the season and ended up with nought.

I don't think Clermont needed Munster's help to get the jitters in knockout rugby.

emmet02 · 14-08-2013 5:00pm

blood stone

Foxtrol · 14-08-2013 5:01pm

Rightwing wrote: »

Quins were top seeds. No mean feat trouncing them at home.

Rattled Clermont so badly, they got jitters for the rest of the season and ended up with nought.

Debatable how much was caused by Munster and how much was internal problems after years of issues, I’d say the latter was much more important.

Any team can go on a cup run when forces align the right way, the Edinburgh HC run in the previous season with poor league form bear some similarities with Munster of last year. Obviously not saying Munster are going to nosedive like the Scots have but I wouldn’t read too much into improvements based on a couple of once off performances in the cup, apart from the common known fact that Munster can beat anyone on a given day.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience · 14-08-2013 5:02pm

Jesus, serious revisionism going on regarding our loss to Leinster anyway

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience · 14-08-2013 5:06pm

Rightwing wrote: »

Quins were top seeds. No mean feat trouncing them at home.

Rattled Clermont so badly, they got jitters for the rest of the season and ended up with nought.

So two of the three "big performances against big sides" ended in defeat?

Rightwing · 14-08-2013 5:09pm

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

So two of the three "big performances against big sides" ended in defeat?

Absolutely.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience · 14-08-2013 5:10pm

Rightwing wrote: »

Absolutely.

We're not exactly putting in many big performances so are we? And even when we are (according to you btw, the Leinster performance was by no means a big one) we're losing most of them

thomond2006 · 14-08-2013 5:11pm

John Hayes? Anyone?

Rightwing · 14-08-2013 5:13pm

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

We're not exactly putting in many big performances so are we? And even when we are (according to you btw, the Leinster performance was by no means a big one) we're losing most of them

Give Penney time and we will see. He deserves his 2 years.

Fireball07 · 14-08-2013 5:15pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

John Hayes? Anyone?

Good player, pity he fcuked off first chance he could get :P

jm08 · 14-08-2013 5:15pm

Foxtrol wrote: »

Debatable how much was caused by Munster and how much was internal problems after years of issues, I’d say the latter was much more important.

Any team can go on a cup run when forces align the right way, the Edinburgh HC run in the previous season with poor league form bear some similarities with Munster of last year. Obviously not saying Munster are going to nosedive like the Scots have but I wouldn’t read too much into improvements based on a couple of once off performances in the cup, apart from the common known fact that Munster can beat anyone on a given day.

Is this the same Clermont that beat Leinster in the Aviva a few months earlier which meant that Leinster went into the Amlin Cup? Munster must be a lucky team then as all these internal problems to suddenly emerge as soon as Munster headed down there.

By the way, Edinburgh beat Toulouse in Edinburgh - a heck of a difference to travelling down to the south of France. Toulouse, like most French teams, are poor travellers.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience · 14-08-2013 5:16pm

Rightwing wrote: »

Give Penney time and we will see. He deserves his 2 years.

Ya he does. But that doesn't mean you were right in saying this:

Rightwing wrote: »

The performances were there against the big teams. That's the main thing for me. But to answer your question, time will tell I suppose.

If that was true we would have not had to rely on a best runners up spot in the HC, we would have finally beaten Leinster again, and we would have been more competitive in the rabo

jm08 · 14-08-2013 5:23pm

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Ya he does. But that doesn't mean you were right in saying this:

If that was true we would have not had to rely on a best runners up spot in the HC, we would have finally beaten Leinster again, and we would have been more competitive in the rabo

There was a time when there was question marks over whether Munster would qualify for Europe if they were to depend on league form. Its only in recent years (McGahan) that Munster have really bothered with the league. I remember Munster playing Leinster in a league game in 2008 in a gale force wind the week before a HCup match and Munster were throwing the ball around as if they never heard of up the jumper. Munster lost to Leinster (10-3), but the following week they won their away game against the Scarlets.

emmet02 · 14-08-2013 5:34pm

RE: Munster not bothering with the league.

http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/matchcentre/table.php?includeref=11189&season=2013-2014

Try any of the years since the inception.

Make up your own mind.

Micky Dolenz · 14-08-2013 5:38pm

Big deal, we had a sh!te year in the league. Thats the best thing about the past.

emmet02 · 14-08-2013 5:42pm

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Big deal, we had a sh!te year in the league. Thats the best thing about the past.

that people are free to re-write it?

jm08 · 14-08-2013 6:00pm

emmet02 wrote: »

RE: Munster not bothering with the league.

http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/matchcentre/table.php?includeref=11189&season=2013-2014

Try any of the years since the inception.

Make up your own mind.

6th in 06-07 (season after winning the Heineken Cup).:)

Not bothering can also mean sending off academy players with someone like Quinny and who sometimes managed to pull off a win.

mohawk · 14-08-2013 6:05pm

jm08 wrote: »

No Earls or ROG - Archer & Killer up against Ross & Healy! Not sure Munster were taking the game as seriously as you think they should !

Seriously!!!

This is a Leinster match we are talking about. I for one have had enough of those guys coming down and beating Munster on their own turf. When it comes to a derby its about winning.

Personally I feel that Munsters big problem is that they have a first XV and then things get a little ropey in certain positions. The league form post Christmas has me worried for next season. Take out the Quins game and things look very ugly for Munster.

Foxtrol · 14-08-2013 6:06pm

jm08 wrote: »

Is this the same Clermont that beat Leinster in the Aviva a few months earlier which meant that Leinster went into the Amlin Cup? Munster must be a lucky team then as all these internal problems to suddenly emerge as soon as Munster headed down there.

Yes, as Clermont have a great history for bottling/playing poorly in the group/league phase of competitions while performing really well in knockout competition when the pressure is on. :rolleyes:

What planet do you live on?

By the way, Edinburgh beat Toulouse in Edinburgh - a heck of a difference to travelling down to the south of France. Toulouse, like most French teams, are poor travellers.

IMO that Edinburgh team beating Toulouse at home is a close to/greater achievement than Munster losing to Clermont in a neutral French venue. Not really the point anyway, I was showing how a cup run does not necessarily equate to a team improving, it can paper over the cracks.

emmet02 · 14-08-2013 6:06pm

jm08 wrote: »

6th in 06-07 (season after winning the Heineken Cup).:)

Not bothering can also mean sending off academy players with someone like Quinny and who sometimes managed to pull off a win.

As a recent stat-addict, would you not agree that 1 out of 11 years of the Celtic league being used to show that the team doesn't take it seriously is a bit off?

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience · 14-08-2013 6:08pm

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Big deal, we had a sh!te year in the league. Thats the best thing about the past.

Well when people start claiming ridiculous things like "we put in big performances against the big sides" when we clearly didn't the past becomes relevant

jm08 · 14-08-2013 6:24pm

mohawk wrote: »

Seriously!!!

This is a Leinster match we are talking about. I for one have had enough of those guys coming down and beating Munster on their own turf. When it comes to a derby its about winning.

Personally I feel that Munsters big problem is that they have a first XV and then things get a little ropey in certain positions. The league form post Christmas has me worried for next season. Take out the Quins game and things look very ugly for Munster.

It was the week after a big HC win away from home (against Quins).

Munster: F Jones; D Hurley, C Laulala, J Downey, S Zebo; I Keatley, C Murray; D Kilcoyne (J Cronin 78th min) , D Varley (Sherry 62nd min), S Archer (Botha 62nd min); Donncha O'Callaghan (Holland 54th min), P O'Connell capt; P O'Mahony, T O'Donnell , J Coughlan (O'Callaghan Dave 72nd min). Reps not used: C Sheridan, JJ Hanrahan, I Dineen.

Leinster: R Kearney; D Kearney, B O'Driscoll, G D'Arcy, I Nacewa; I Madigan, I Boss; C Healy, S Cronin, M Ross; L Cullen capt, Q Roux; S O'Brien, S Jennings, J Heaslip. Replacements: R Strauss, J McGrath, M Bent, D Toner, K McLaughlin, J Cooney, A Goodman, A Conway.

Leinster had their first team and were after a home semi. It was also a priority for Leinster this year to win the Rapo Final, so in short Munster had nothing to lose because they were out of it anyway.

jm08 · 14-08-2013 6:26pm

emmet02 wrote: »

As a recent stat-addict, would you not agree that 1 out of 11 years of the Celtic league being used to show that the team doesn't take it seriously is a bit off?

Lots of 3rds & 4ths there as well which didn't mean much as there were no playoffs. To win back then you needed to be no. 1 and not just play for a play-off spot.

thomond2006 · 14-08-2013 6:34pm

Fireball07 wrote: »

Good player, pity he fcuked off first chance he could get :P

and onto the ignore list you go fireball! :pac:

Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread III

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