Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Rumen Fluke Treatment

245

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,717 ✭✭✭LostCovey


    Cowmad wrote: »
    It only takes a poddle of water for an animal to get fluke. Fluke is a major problem every where.

    Well yes, an animal could get a fluke, but your herd won't get it from a puddle
    Cowmad wrote: »
    Fluke is a major problem every where.

    That is not true
    Cowmad wrote: »
    Fluke is the number one problem in animal health followed by IBR then BVD

    I don't agree, but companies marketing vaccines would be very pleased to have created that impression re IBR & BVD.

    Much hype, because they are fantastic diseases, cause tons of things you can't see, here buy a vaccine for magic fix, forget biosecurity, buy whatever you want from the mart. Joke.

    LostCovey


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,552 ✭✭✭pakalasa


    .........


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭dar31


    pakalasa wrote: »
    .........

    been getting that feeling a lot lately


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,786 ✭✭✭✭whelan1


    i'm saying nothing:rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 43 Cowmad


    LostCovey wrote: »
    Well yes, an animal could get a fluke, but your herd won't get it from a puddle


    That is not true



    I don't agree, but companies marketing vaccines would be very pleased to have created that impression re IBR & BVD.

    Much hype, because they are fantastic diseases, cause tons of things you can't see, here buy a vaccine for magic fix, forget biosecurity, buy whatever you want from the mart. Joke.

    LostCovey

    Research has being carried by Teagasc that showed it takes a small amount of water for animals to get fluke.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    The point I was trying to make was that immature fluke cause serious disease in sheep - I have seen sheep that were dosed every six weeks dying of acute liver fluke disease. That does not happen with cattle, possibly because they have a tougher liver with more fibrous tissue, and liver fluke find it harder to tunnel through it. Cattle also become resistant to liver fluke with age (as you say) partly because they react to fluke attacks by producing more fibrous (scar) tissue. Sheep immune systems just can't cope, and mature ewes are as susceptible as hoggets.


    I totally agree with the above and I'm not being sarcastic. There was a study done in UCD which compared sheep liver to cattle and they did find that cattle had tougher livers to sheep which meant that the fluke did not bore it as much. I have a link to it, I'll dig it up and pm you with it. They studied different ages and found younger cattle to be more prone as you said above.

    So while I do actually believe that there is relatively little to be gained from dosing cattle for immature fluke, I do it myself, because it does reduce the burdens. But it is nowhere near as important as with sheep, where if I use an adult-only flukicide, I will get deaths.

    I disagree with you on this point, In countries all over the world they are advising to the benefits of treating cattle for immature fluke. As I said in the last post, its not to prevent death but to promote thrive. As you said, you do it yourself, so you must see benefit from it.

    I think we also have to look at other measures, like drainage, fencing off wet areas, ditches and flooded areas, and also accept that there is land in the west which in a bad fluke year, is unsuitable for livestock, because the amount of dosing needed to keep them safe would be neither economic nor advisable. That is the type of land where I said it probably doesn't matter whether you dose or not - some places which have been heavily grazed by sheep are almost that bad, although I did mean it as a joke.


    Agree, but a lot of land in this country is heavy wet land. Impossible to choose areas to fence off. But I do think that if people operate a sendible dosing policy against fluke, they can keep it under control, no matter what type of land they have.


  • Registered Users Posts: 884 ✭✭✭leoch


    well how often should u dose them through the year if u are on wet ground and would lime or aerating the ground help get rid of them in any way


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,438 ✭✭✭5live


    Just reading about fluke. Lost 5 weanling heifers last year with rumen fluke and the rest about 50 kg lighter than normal and i am on verydry land that burns off in summer. Also watch out dosing for fluke in cows and incalf heifers this year. New analysis of residues can show up doseing for 12 MONTHS! Not good for dairy stock as only Endofluke can be used currently according to my vet. So 2 doses per winter until rest of products get retested and approved. Enjoy


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,786 ✭✭✭✭whelan1


    there was a dept of agriculture ad on page 2 of the farming indo this week and i meant to go back and read it BUT the paper went in the recylcing bin , did anyone readit and is anyone any the wiser on what we can use on dairy cows:D


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,717 ✭✭✭LostCovey


    whelan1 wrote: »
    there was a dept of agriculture ad on page 2 of the farming indo this week and i meant to go back and read it BUT the paper went in the recylcing bin , did anyone readit and is anyone any the wiser on what we can use on dairy cows:D

    Hi whelan1,

    I didn't see the Farming Indo notice, but this is the Glanbia list from last March - has there been any change since that date?

    LostCovey



    Re: Certain Flukicidal Products – Clarification/Change in use in animals intended for Milk for Human Consumption

    Dear Supplier

    Attached please find Notice from the Irish Medicines Board regarding updating of Invermectin and certain flukicidal products.

    Recent advances in analytical technology developed by the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (DAFF) for monitoring of foodstuffs have called into question the precision of the labelling instructions of certain flukicidal veterinary medicines.*The veterinary medicines concerned contain clorsulon, closantel, nitroxynil, rafoxanide and triclabendazole used in dairy animals intended for milk production.*

    As a prudent measure, the IMB is advising that veterinary medicines containing these substances should NOT be administered to animals producing milk for human consumption, including pregnant animals intended to produce milk for human consumption.

    MEDICINES THAT CAN CONTINUE TO BE USED WITH STRICT ADHERENCE TO WITHDRAWAL PERIODS INDICATED
    Name of product
    Active ingredient
    Albex 10%
    Albendazole
    Albex 2.5%
    Albendazole
    Endospec 10% SC
    Albendazole
    Endospec 2.5% SC
    Albendazole
    Keelogane SC
    Albendazole
    Osmonds Flexiben 10% SC
    Albendazole
    Tramazole 10%
    Albendazole
    Tramazole 2.5%
    Albendazole
    Valbazen 10%
    Albendazole
    Zanil
    Oxyclosanide





    MEDICINES NOT TO BE ADMINISTERED TO COWS/IN-CALF HEIFERS
    Name of product
    Active substance involved in IMB decision
    Virbamec super
    Clorsulon
    Ivomec super
    Clorsulon
    Flukiver 5 Injection
    Closantel
    Closamectin
    Closantel
    Closiver for cattle
    Closantel
    Closamectin Pour on
    Closantel
    Trodax 34%
    Nitroxynil
    Deldrax 34%
    Nitroxynil
    Flukinex 9%
    Rafoxanide
    Orafluke 5%
    Rafoxanide
    Orafluke 10%
    Rafoxanide
    Fluken worm
    Rafoxanide
    Levafluke
    Rafoxanide
    Triazole
    Rafoxanide
    Fenafluke 5%
    Rafoxanide
    Chan Broad Spec
    Rafoxanide
    Rafazole Oral Suspension
    Rafoxanide
    Ridafluke 3%
    Rafoxanide
    Univet Multidose Fluke and Worm
    Rafoxanide
    Flukex 3%
    Rafoxanide
    Flukex 9%
    Rafoxanide
    Curafluke 5%
    Rafoxanide
    Curafluke 10%
    Rafoxanide
    Panafluke Oral Suspension
    Rafoxanide
    Fasinex 24%
    Triclabendazole
    Endex 19.5%
    Triclabendazole
    Fasinex 10%
    Triclabendazole
    Fasinex Super 19.5%
    Triclabendazole
    Fasifree 10%
    Triclabendazole
    Endofluke 10
    Triclabendazole
    Triclaben 10% for cattle
    Triclabendazole
    Tribex 10% for cattle
    Triclabendazole



    Glanbia Milk March 2010


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,786 ✭✭✭✭whelan1


    got a bill from osmonds with a flyer in it , theres a rumen fluke treatment which also does for worms called pharmazan . dont know the suitability for dairy cows


  • Registered Users Posts: 154 ✭✭morning delight


    LostCovey wrote: »

    MEDICINES THAT CAN CONTINUE TO BE USED WITH STRICT ADHERENCE TO WITHDRAWAL PERIODS INDICATED
    Name of product
    Active ingredient
    Albex 10%
    Albendazole
    Albex 2.5%
    Albendazole
    Endospec 10% SC
    Albendazole
    Endospec 2.5% SC
    Albendazole
    Keelogane SC
    Albendazole
    Osmonds Flexiben 10% SC
    Albendazole
    Tramazole 10%
    Albendazole
    Tramazole 2.5%
    Albendazole
    Valbazen 10%
    Albendazole
    Zanil
    Oxyclosanide

    You can still use Zanil by the looks of it. And Levafas Diamond too.

    I reckon I've lost 2 cows to rumen fluke in the last year. Both were treated for everything 3 or 4 times.

    This Spring I had another cow going in the wrong direction with a persistent scour so I got the vet who suspected rumen fluke and we sent samples to the lab (tested for the other usuals as well). Now the cow was on death's door so she got another course of antibiotics, levafas diamond (I couldn't get zanil) and copper (black cattle had the typical rusty colouring of the coat).

    The lab results came back with evidence of rumen fluke eggs and borderline/ low copper levels. The cow recovered. I had dosed and injected a few others I wasn't happy with and they improved as well. So then I was left wondering was it rumen fluke or Copper.

    Sure enough about 2 months later she started scouring again, and one 2yo heifer I was unhappy with started deteriorating again. I dosed them both 3 weeks ago with Levafas diamond only and within 4/5 days they were well on the way. (Of course I was supposed to repeat the dose after 3 days but just didn't have the time to do it! The down side of part time farming)

    Rumen fluke QED!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,717 ✭✭✭LostCovey


    whelan1 wrote: »
    got a bill from osmonds with a flyer in it , theres a rumen fluke treatment which also does for worms called pharmazan . dont know the suitability for dairy cows

    It's oxyclozanide (or oxyclosanide as Glanbia spell it above). So it will kill rumen fluke too.

    LC

    http://www.imb.ie/EN/Medicines/VeterinaryMedicines/VeterinaryMedicinesListing.aspx?x=&page=1&query=pharmazan&tradename=&LicenceHolder=&LicenceNumber=&Active=&LegalStatus=&SupplyLegalStatus=&AuthDateFrom=&AuthDateTo=&OrderBy=name&OrderAscending=True&Auth=AUTHORISED&DrugID=1995021100&WithdrawDate=ALL&Species=&ATC=&Ther=&Advanced=no


  • Registered Users Posts: 154 ✭✭morning delight


    LostCovey wrote: »

    http://www.imb.ie/images/uploaded/swedocuments/8676047_10823-20-1.pdf

    Look at 4.11 Withdrawal periods. Not to be used in dairy cows. It's the same ingredients as Levafas Diamond. That isn't allowed in dairy cows either, even though it only has a 5 day meat withdrawal.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,786 ✭✭✭✭whelan1


    i asked our vet the other day and he said they should all be back on the market later in the year its to do with the withdrawal times etc , they wherent looked into properly , i think


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,583 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    science moves on and there is probably a newer way of testing for residues which is way more sensitive than before. Anyway isn't it the liver that breaks down all these chemicals in the body, and if we're using something that targets the liver (sorry may be off thread here) traces are bound to stay in the liver?

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,717 ✭✭✭LostCovey


    blue5000 wrote: »
    science moves on and there is probably a newer way of testing for residues which is way more sensitive than before. Anyway isn't it the liver that breaks down all these chemicals in the body, and if we're using something that targets the liver (sorry may be off thread here) traces are bound to stay in the liver?

    I think the issue is that is that in the past, it was possible to say that say milk must have no residues of product X.

    Newer tests are more sensitive and can detect tiny traces of product X for ages. So some work is needed to set sensible limits for each product, and in the meantime they are forbidden because any use would produce detectable residues, and safe limits have not been established.

    That is my understanding. Open to correction.

    LC


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1 Lucymart


    I'm new to this forum and was wondering if anyone could help. I have a Suffolk Ram 3 years old who has stopped eating and is losing condition for the past week. It started with an eye infection which I treated with Opticlox. My vet suggested Rumen fluke. Is there anything i can do for him. Any ideas?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,237 ✭✭✭Username John


    Lucymart wrote: »
    I'm new to this forum and was wondering if anyone could help. I have a Suffolk Ram 3 years old who has stopped eating and is losing condition for the past week. It started with an eye infection which I treated with Opticlox. My vet suggested Rumen fluke. Is there anything i can do for him. Any ideas?

    You could get an FEC sample done, this will tell you if its rumen fluke, if so, then dose with Zanil, I had to do it myself only last week.

    Is he inside?

    When you say stop eating, is he eating anything? You could try giving him some ivy, but even if he does eat this is only a short term solution til you see what the problem is.

    I would say get the vet out, but your comment above about your vet said "it might be" wouldnt fill me with confidence :confused:
    But maybe I am being unfair, only you can judge that.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,967 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    It sounds as though your vet hasn't seen him yet. That might be the best approach as he'll be able to see things you won't be able to tell us. Sometimes it may sound from the description as though it could only be one thing but on seeing the animal it's very obviously something else.

    An eye infection could be just an eye infection, the sickness being something else.
    Or, it could be a runny eye thats part of pneumonia.
    Or, it could be a listerial eye infection from silage, the ram now having the meningitis form of the disease.....................

    These things would be more obvious while looking at the animal rather than the best of advice from behind a keyboard.

    If you feel a visit isn't justified economically then could you take the ram to the vet?
    We can give advice here but it would only be worth what you paid for it........:)

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭fatoftheland


    i didnt realise zanil or leavfas diamond is hard to get was in a few merchants in cavan and longford there s lots of both product around here


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 338 ✭✭jocotty


    krazyklown wrote: »
    Just out of interest has anybody had confirmed cases of rumen fluke?

    hard to know if its all hype...

    my brother just had 14 yearling calves die over the past week with rumen fluke. Also from the west of Ireland. Calves had been just dosed for normal fluke. And
    4 more look like they also sick. They're all dosed now for rumen fluke. Don't know what he dosed them with.

    Hope it works.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,157 ✭✭✭Good loser


    jocotty wrote: »
    my brother just had 14 yearling calves die over the past week with rumen fluke. Also from the west of Ireland. Calves had been just dosed for normal fluke. And
    4 more look like they also sick. They're all dosed now for rumen fluke. Don't know what he dosed them with.

    Hope it works.

    That's amazing. So many in such a short time. Were they very thin or scoury? Are you sure it was rumen fluke killed them? Could it have been an after-effect of the 'normal fluke dose'?


  • Registered Users Posts: 828 ✭✭✭TUBBY


    Dosed yesterday with Zanil for a batch of cattle that were on fairly heavy ground.

    If you passed by 5 yards behind them for the last week or so, you were liable to be covered in sh1t.

    Talked to a vet in pub last night. He was saying that he has had a good few cases of it where weanling is losing condition very quickly and samples are coming back with a very high infestation level.

    Seemingly the Levafas or Zanil are dangerous enough though. To dose a little too strong is can go cruel hard on the animal


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,891 ✭✭✭farawaygrass


    isnt there a pour-on you can use for fluke?? and we housed all weanling yesterday, look a better bunch than last year. dunno if good or bad but will wait 6 weeks and then treat for fluke, should only be mature fluke then and kill all(or most). any thoughts?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 197 ✭✭case 5150


    Can you inject incalf freisian heifers with bimentin for stomach worms


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,552 ✭✭✭pakalasa


    I posted about this already but I had a young bull (18 months) that was wasting away like that. He didn't seem that sick. He stretch when he got up etc and I knew he didn't have pneumnia. I was watching him closely for a week and then one evening, I saw him make a right nasty scour. Didn't smell right. He wasn't dirty around the tail, so that's how I missed it. I dosed him with Zanil and now, after 2 wks or so, he has turned inside out. He has put back on the most of the condition.
    An eye opener for me, I can tell ya.
    Sorry, long winded I know, but it might be of use to someone to spot the signs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26 Milkymoos


    case 5150 wrote: »
    Can you inject incalf freisian heifers with bimentin for stomach worms
    Yes, milk withdrawal is 60 days so as long as you won't be putting milk into the bulk tank before then you will be grand. Just make sure it's bimectin and not bimectin super!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 26 Milkymoos


    isnt there a pour-on you can use for fluke?? and we housed all weanling yesterday, look a better bunch than last year. dunno if good or bad but will wait 6 weeks and then treat for fluke, should only be mature fluke then and kill all(or most). any thoughts?
    There are 2 pour-on's on the market for liver fluke, none for rumen fluke. These are closamectin pour-on and cydectin triclamox. Cydectin is the better of the 2 by far but be aware that the meat withdrawal is just under 150 days. About leaving for 6 weeks to treat for fluke, I probably would treat now with a product for rumen and liver fluke, then 6-8 weeks later treat with injection for liver fluke and worms. No point in feeding fluke for even just 6 weeks.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,891 ✭✭✭farawaygrass


    Milkymoos wrote: »
    There are 2 pour-on's on the market for liver fluke, none for rumen fluke. These are closamectin pour-on and cydectin triclamox. Cydectin is the better of the 2 by far but be aware that the meat withdrawal is just under 150 days. About leaving for 6 weeks to treat for fluke, I probably would treat now with a product for rumen and liver fluke, then 6-8 weeks later treat with injection for liver fluke and worms. No point in feeding fluke for even just 6 weeks.

    i also get the impression from this forum that there is no one product to do the two flukes? withdrawal period of 150 days is just crazy aint it, what if cows, or any animal goes down over the winter calving or what not, then its only the knackery for it. any way of distinguishing between the two?


Advertisement