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[Article] Eircom to cut off Music File Sharers ..

  • 28-01-2009 8:53pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭


    Hi Guys,

    This case has been resolved after 8 DAYS. WOW, this one slipped under the radar:

    RTÉ Business: Internet: Eircom settles with music firms

    Eircom settles with music firms

    "High Court proceedings between Eircom and four music companies - EMI, Sony, Universal and Warners - have been settled on an amicable basis. The proceedings had been in court for eight days.

    Under the settlement, the record companies will supply Eircom with the internet provider addresses of all persons who they detect illegally uploading or downloading copywrite works on a peer to peer basis.

    Eircom has agreed that it would disconnect any broadband subscriber who failed to comply, following a warning they were acting illegally."


    HERES A MORE EXTENSIVE ARTICLE:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0128/breaking81.htm

    Downloaders face disconnection following Eircom settlement



    So Clean up your act guys - Big Bro may come a knockin ... Ah Yes - is this the beginning of the "GREAT FIREWALL OF EIRE"?

    Aidan


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    It's great that they are going after peer to peer only, torrent's destroy networks by flooding it with connections. Newsgroups are defiantly the way to go.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,082 ✭✭✭✭Random


    Isn't it like the old Masterbation thing? Just download until you get caught / go blind. :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 147 ✭✭L.R. Weizel


    Ridiculous. To do this right before a recession too. Personally I don't give a **** if record companies go out of business.


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,439 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    This was bound to happen and to be honest its not really news given the likely hood of it happening, RTE refer to it as a ground breaking and a first yet it already happens in other countrys...go figure :)
    In what has been billed as a world first, four music companies and internet server provider Eircom have agreed to work together to end illegal music downloading.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0128/download.html

    Poor reporting imho


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,439 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Ridiculous. To do this right before a recession too. Personally I don't give a **** if record companies go out of business.

    How is it, if people are breaking the law record companys are entitled to try stop them are they not?

    Funny thing about downloading music from the internet is I actually buy more music now then I did 4 years ago :)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭mobius42


    The articles didn't mention what the record companies will do.
    How will the record companies detect you downloading music?
    Will they take legal action against those they detect downloading music?
    How will they know that the torrents contain music and not other data (especially if you use encryption)?
    Don't eircom use dynamic IPs, meaning that false positives will be likely? Will you be able to challenge the record companies' claims?

    There are far too many unanswered questions here.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭mobius42


    Cabaal wrote: »
    yet it already happens in other countrys...go figure :)

    I don't think it does. France tried to bring a similar law in but it failed. Britain and the US recently abandoned plans to introduce this type of law too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    mobius42 wrote: »
    The articles didn't mention what the record companies will do.
    How will the record companies detect you downloading music?
    Will they take legal action against those they detect downloading music?
    How will they know that the torrents contain music and not other data (especially if you use encryption)?
    Don't eircom use dynamic IPs, meaning that false positives will be likely? Will you be able to challenge the record companies' claims?

    There are far too many unanswered questions here.

    Some answers maybe:

    "Both parties have agreed to work closely together and on a joint approach aimed at ending “the absue of the internet by P2P (peer to peer) copyright infringers”, they said in a statement afterwards."

    P2P is only part of the problem. Without naming any, File storage sites are littered with zipped downloadable movies and music files. I would say they can only detect the P2P traffic as it is explicit - from one users PC to another users PC direct using such applications as Limewire and Torrent apps.

    Another interesting bit: "As part of the settlement, the record companies will supply Eircom with the IP addresses of all persons who they detect illegally uploading or downloading copyright works"

    The RECORD COMPANIES will SUPPLY Eircom with the IP Addresses, not the other way around, hence these companies have ways of tracking Peer to Peer traffic? Maybe this - http://www.baytsp.com/solutions/index.html

    Aidan


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭mobius42


    aidanodr wrote: »

    The RECORD COMPANIES will SUPPLY Eircom with the IP Addresses, not the other way around, hence these companies have ways of tracking Peer to Peer traffic? Maybe this - http://www.baytsp.com/solutions/index.html

    Aidan

    I picked up on that from the article and that's what worries me. These companies have been shown to use inaccurate methods and supply false information. Just google Mediasentry and you'll see what I mean. They're the company responsible for that lawsuit against the elderly couple who couldn't use a computer amongst others.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,305 ✭✭✭yoshytoshy


    in a way stuff like this is good for ireland ,especially if we are to become more competitive in the IT area of business.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭mobius42


    Considering how many people use bittorrent, I wonder how happy Eircom will be to cut off thousands of customers and lose all that revenue.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    yoshytoshy wrote: »
    in a way stuff like this is good for ireland ,especially if we are to become more competitive in the IT area of business.

    BUT you know, things like this start here with such a ruling ( now we have a court precident ) and then have the potential to expand into other non illegal area's - being used as a censorship tool which could in the long run cripple internet use in Ireland in some ways? As I said previously - THE GREAT FIREWALL OF EIRE begins? Just throwing the argument out there for debate ..

    Aidan


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,631 ✭✭✭✭Hank Scorpio


    funny im downloading 3 discographys atm ;)

    this has all come about because eircom lost a legal lawsuit against these companies i presume ( i seen they were in court ) defending music downloads " less cocaine for rockstars " or something alone these likes

    Also eircom wont moniter ****, how do these companies have ANY access to what irish people are downloading, eircom will turn a blind eye and not do anything

    also , if BT, PERLICO etc customers are downloading music does this come into the legal agreement?

    tbh lads is a pile of piss and i wouldnt take it serious, look at the uk and what happened ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,538 ✭✭✭niceirishfella


    What if these illegal downloaders don't use eircom as their BB service prvider, like they could use magnet or digiweb?
    Will they be safe?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 36 corkonian0110


    good for Ireland, thats rubbish - as mentioned earlier, the monitoring of ip addresses and record company's reporting it to Eircom - = embarrasing for Ireland.
    i will be continuing to download torrents.....ahem ....on my neighbours wifi


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 686 ✭✭✭bangersandmash


    mobius42 wrote: »
    I don't think it does. France tried to bring a similar law in but it failed. Britain and the US recently abandoned plans to introduce this type of law too.
    It's not a law. Instead of going the legal route with individuals, they're liaising directly with the ISP.
    "What happens at the moment is that music labels need to go to court to get an order asking us to shut off a subscriber's connection. Under the compromise, they will come to us, using the same standard of proof they would have given the court. We need to be convinced that our subscriber is file-sharing illegally."
    http://www.yourtechstuff.com/techwire/2009/01/eircom-settles-with-big-music-will-cut-off-filesharers.html

    Rumours are that the same strategy will be used in the US, but ISPs are reluctant to admit it. Maybe it is a first for Eircom.
    AT&T won't either confirm or deny its involvement but maintains that it believes "consumer education" is the solution to thwarting music piracy and that it wouldn't automatically cut off access to its customers.
    http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/01/28/att.and.comcast.help.riaa/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭97i9y3941


    i was watching news about that,i think the other providers are expected to follow suit,basically saying we sue you if you dont do the same


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭mobius42


    What if these illegal downloaders don't use eircom as their BB service prvider, like they could use magnet or digiweb?
    Will they be safe?

    The article says that the record companies are looking at making deals with the other ISPs, so I'd say this applies to Eircom only. However, considering that Eircom actually controls all the infrastructure that the other ISPs use (except Magnet and UPC), who knows?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    What if these illegal downloaders don't use eircom as their BB service prvider, like they could use magnet or digiweb?
    Will they be safe?

    READ the times article above:

    "The record companies have also agreed they will take all necessary steps to put similar agreements in place with all other internet service providers in Ireland."

    I would say the other companies will now follow suit. As I said - a court precident has now occurred IN THIS Jurisdiction. This precident can now be used against the other ISPs I reckon.

    Aidan


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,538 ✭✭✭niceirishfella


    more nanny state sh1te


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭mobius42


    aidanodr wrote: »

    I would say the other companies will now follow suit. As I said - a court precident has now occurred IN THIS Jurisdiction. This precident can now be used against the other ISPs I reckon.

    Aidan

    Not necessarily. If it was an out of court settlement, and I think it was, then no legal precedent has been established.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    OK Guys,

    Heres the skinny:

    http://www.siliconrepublic.com/news/article/12181/new-media/big-four-music-labels-and-eircom-in-landmark-piracy-settlement

    "Eircom has agreed to implement a “three strikes and you’re out” policy against illegal peer-to-peer (P2P) downloaders while also agreeing work with data provided by the big four labels to help them pinpoint and pursue illegal downloaders and uploaders."

    AS I SAID: "The ruling means a precedent has been set and all other ISPs in the Irish market will now have to cooperate with the music industry."

    "The move will have global ramifications as other labels in other jurisdictions will be able to follow a similar route to punish illegal downloaders."

    "The labels wanted Eircom to install filtering software such as Audible Magic to help prevent the rise of music piracy which coincided with and they believe is responsible for falling music sales."

    "The record companies will use a service called DetecNet which poses as a P2P file sharer to target the offending downloaders and supply Eircom with the IP addresses of suspected copyright thieves."

    "A spokesman for Eircom explained to siliconrepublic.com that the collaboration with the labels will not involve any network intervention. “Effectively a third party will be hired by the labels to find out who are the largest illegal P2P downloaders. They will then come to us with the IP addresses of the suspected parties.

    “We won’t reveal the identities of the users but we will contact them and if they fail to comply we will follow the process agreed with the music industry. Currently the industry pursues these individuals in the court. We will now begin a three step process that will begin with the issuing of a warning."

    SO THEIR NOW ...
    Aidan


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    mobius42 wrote: »
    Not necessarily. If it was an out of court settlement, and I think it was, then no legal precedent has been established.

    READ above Mobius :(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,538 ✭✭✭niceirishfella


    Aidan , calm down....breath in and out


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 147 ✭✭L.R. Weizel


    Cabaal wrote: »
    How is it, if people are breaking the law record companys are entitled to try stop them are they not? Funny thing about downloading music from the internet is I actually buy more music now then I did 4 years ago :)
    Too many people equate law with ethics. It's pretty scary. There's also kind of the smug view that people who disagree are just lazy criminals. I just don't support the music industry and the way it does things, at all. If there's some record company that does things differently maybe I'll be more inclined to purchase, but there are still too many fat cats. Music shouldn't be about that. For that reason, I wouldn't care if someone pirated like a madman. Personally I support things like creative commons and the demoscene. I do think musicians should be paid as they can be very hardworking individuals, but the way things are is just wrong.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    Aidan , calm down....breath in and out

    Aaaaahhhhhhhhh, that felling of Zen calm is now upon me :)

    Aidan

    PS - niceirishfella, I am interested in this area. Anoraky as it may sound, Internet security and the like is what I do for a crust, but however, censorship and IRL being used as a guinnee pig I would have arguments about!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,305 ✭✭✭yoshytoshy


    Shooting simon cowell and his cronies will improve music sales.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    AND to keep the pace going while in a ZEN State -

    http://www.uwire.com/Article.aspx?id=3639170

    This is where it all came from. I reckon Ireland is being used as a test jurisdiction? Have a read ... long article but explains alot

    Aidan


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭Smcgie


    Surely the music industry must realise that passing a mp3 file via Bluetooth is the same as downloading.... What are they going to do next sue phone companies to remove bluetooth from all phones :P


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭Stky10


    Ridiculous. To do this right before a recession too.

    Ahem... we're already in a recession.. verging on a depression.

    Personally I think its all bluster. The burden of proof is on them to prove that you're downloading music rather than data of another sort. There are multiple ways around this. Even still, knowing Eircom it will be implemented in a half arsed way, they'll make an example of a few to make it look like they're doing something, and after that they'll pretty much ignore whats going on. They'd be mad not to. Broadband is too much of a cash cow for them to cut off their own nose.


This discussion has been closed.
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