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Handwriting decipher thread *must post link to full page*

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭Alan259


    Have people here came across civil registrations written in the Gaelic script?

    Maybe this query would be better suited to it's own thread or even the Irish language forum but I'm having a lot of difficulty making out whatever the cause of death is for the third and last entry on this page: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1961/04322/4115833.pdf

    The rest of the information on the entry is: Date and Place of Death - 24th June 1961, Cill Tulach/ Kiltullagh, Name and Surname - Mary Connolly, Condition - Widow, Age last Birthday - 64 years, Rank, Profession or Occupation - Widow of a Farmer, Signature, Qualification, and Residence of Informant - Patrick Connolly, Son, Cill Tulach/ Kiltullagh.

    Thanks in advance. :)


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,616 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    No, one handwriting thread for all such queries is better.

    There's 2 problems here: you need someone who can speak Irish and read the old Irish script and someone who understands medical words.

    I make out 2 causes, the first has something about "fola" (blood) lasting 5 days. The secondary cause is much harder but lasted 14 days. I presume the last word means certified because that's usually the last word in a cause of death section. Deimhnithe in modern Irish.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,616 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    You could ask in the Irish forum if we don't get any further with it.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    agus galan buidhe = and Jaundice (under II)
    I'll have a look at the rest when I've a bigger screen than a phone..(and a dictionary!)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    Irish spelling changed definitively in the 1950’s and was simplified substantially – for example the word for ‘gone’ nowadays is ‘imithe’ which previously was spelled ‘imthighthe’. Similarly the old lettering was changed although the letters R and S had taken ‘modern’ formats earlier. By 1961, (the date of the death entry/ register), the entries should be in the ‘revised’ script, but the registrar / clerk continued with the old format.

    I (a) Caidhn –na xx fola 5 lá [xxxxx of the blood 5 days]
    (b) Sgamhatas, 5 lá [Phthysis 5 days] The Irish word for Phthysis (an old name for TB) is sgamhalar, I’d guess that is what the Reg. means.
    II
    Dáidhteacht
    Fuilmheathlughach agus
    [xxxx and
    an galán buidhe [ jaundice] (lit. the yellow disease)
    Fuilmheathlughach 14 lá [xxx 14 days]
    The word for ‘consumption’ (another old word for TB) is Meathanas and ‘lugh’ means ‘swift’.

    Dinneen (possibly the best dictionary of the period) is not very good on the words so it obviously is very technical language.

    My take is that death was caused by TB complicated by jaundice.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,943 ✭✭✭tabbey


    The word for ‘consumption’ (another old word for TB) is Meathanas and ‘lugh’ means ‘swift’.

    Swift in relation to consumption, may be his way of describing "galloping consumption" in modern times known as "miliary TB". This would mean that it was spreading to other organs, perhaps the liver in this case.


  • Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭montgo


    Help with the name of 2nd witness, maybe Honoria Hennesy and the parish where priest was based (maybe New Inn) on this marriage on 12 Feb 1866 (last entry, RHP)

    Tks


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    would agree with Hanora - last part of the surname is badly faded or smudged, but looks like it starts with a H and has a couple of n or m's

    cant make anything definite for note under sig. of Rev. John Clancy - Ecclesiastic Directory in Thom's 1868 shows him as a CC in parish of Ulla and Solohead.


  • Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭montgo


    Hi Shane,

    A friend has just checked Rootsireland and they have transcribed the sponsor as Honora Hennessy. Maybe their copy of the register was easier to read. Unfortunately, they did not transcribe the priest or his parish. In any case, the fact that he was in Oola/Solohead by 1868 has given me more detail. thank you.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    montgo wrote: »
    Hi Shane,

    A friend has just checked Rootsireland and they have transcribed the sponsor as Honora Hennessy. Maybe their copy of the register was easier to read. Unfortunately, they did not transcribe the priest or his parish. In any case, the fact that he was in Oola/Solohead by 1868 has given me more detail. thank you.

    Hi Montgo,
    Hope this ties it down for you. - From James O’Shea's book “Priest, Politics and Society in Post-famine Ireland” (A study of County Tipperary 1850 - 1891).

    John Clancy. Born 1826 died 1897.
    Birthplace: Galbally or Emly Parish.
    Education : Maynooth, Theology, 1850. Ordained 1854.
    Political involvement: Yes. Diocese Cashel & Emly.
    C.C. Galbally 1855 -1860
    C.C.Newinn 1865-1867
    C.C. Oola &Solohead 1867 - 1877
    C.C. Donaskeigh 1877 - 1880
    P.P. Boherlahan 1880 - 1897

    The above is from the 'directory' appendix; Clancy does not appear in the book's index of names.

    PS. I wonder if it is unusual that he never served outside a small radius of his birthplace.....


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  • Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭montgo


    That's super. Many thanks.

    I don't think it that unusual that priests were just moved about within same diocese.

    So could you do a look up for a couple more priests for me if you have access to the James O'Shea book?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    Yes, can do. Under work burden at the mom but will get it done when the pressure is off.
    The Tipp priest in my family moved and ended up on the Continent and the ones in herself's family went to Australia or died by middle age.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    Hi Montgo,
    Desk cleared - post or PM me the names of the priests and I'll check for you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭montgo


    Cheers, PM sent.


  • Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭Newstreet


    Just a quick one, can anyone identify the name in the red circle, pictured here? Roots transcribes it as Anne Carefolt, but I never heard of such a name before. Any ideas? Many thanks...

    Anne_Carefolt.png


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,990 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    Anne Carefott ...... looks like a double 't' to me.

    Google Carefott and you should get a few hits for the name.


  • Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭Newstreet


    Great, thanks!


  • Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭louis346789


    Hi All

    Looking for some help in understanding this dispensation.
    Is it possible to find out the reason.
    Thanks. Louis

    Patrick%20Mullen%20married%20Eliz%20mullen%20in%20DUBLIN%20PRO%20CATHEDRIAL%20dispensation.jpg?dl=0


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,616 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Mod note: The link is not working.

    Please post these in the handwriting thread.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,990 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    pinkypinky wrote: »
    Mod note: The link is not working.

    Please post these in the handwriting thread.

    Working here .....

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/qg0qgioaf03xfkt/Patrick%20Mullen%20married%20Eliz%20mullen%20in%20DUBLIN%20PRO%20CATHEDRIAL%20dispensation.jpg?dl=0


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  • Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭louis346789




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    Looks like "Delegatus PP Tallanstown C. Rxxxxxx [priest's name]" which is quite normal - the couple were from Tallanstown, their PP there saw no impediment to the marriage and gave his permission (delegatus/delegated) to the priest in the church in which they married.


  • Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭louis346789


    Thank you.
    As you see their surname is the same. Patrick is my grand uncle. I suspect Elizabeth is his cousin. Hence the dispensation.
    Also they both returned to live in dundalk. Not sure why they went to Dublin to get married.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    They might well have been related but that is not mentioned in the dispensation or the reason for it - were there a family link the dispensation would state it - e.g. dispensatio in segundo/tercio grado consanguinatis." I'd still maintain the disp is for the marrige away from their own paish. One or the other possibly was working there (Dublin)? I've also come across a marriage away from home when the bride was in advanced pregnancy......


  • Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭louis346789


    You have nailed it. They were married 25 Aug 1893. Daughter born 11 November 1893.


  • Registered Users Posts: 399 ✭✭VirginiaB


    Can anyone read these handwritten bits in the NLI Valuation Office Books, 1824-1856, record for Michael Herrick, #10a on right-hand page, Co King's [sic], townland of Knockbarron?  The first bit looks like QV but I'm not at all sure.  Whatever it is, what does it mean in this context?  The second bit follows and is illegible to me. Here's the link:
    http://census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/vob/IRE_CENSUS_182151_007246830_00521.pdf


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,300 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    I'm getting 404 not found.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users Posts: 399 ✭✭VirginiaB


    I can only suggest going to the site at http://census.nationalarchives.ie/search/vob/index.jsp  and then entering the info I gave--
    Name--Michael Herrick
    County--King's [note spelling]
    Townland--Knockbarron
    He is number 10a on right-hand page. Thanks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭Kalimah


    Anyone any ideas on this- my great great grandparents marriage in 1872. In the impedimentum column of the register it says this. The marriage was between John Ryan and Catherine Davis on June 1st.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,107 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Kalimah wrote: »
    Anyone any ideas on this- my great great grandparents marriage in 1872. In the impedimentum column of the register it says this. The marriage was between John Ryan and Catherine Davis on June 1st.

    I see 'consanguin...' so they must have been related in some way.


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