Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)

AMKC · 18-01-2021 5:14pm

mickdw wrote: »

Whats the score with hamilton anyway - Whats he looking for other than money? Is he pushing the BLM agenda and wanting mercedes to
fit in with him. If thats the case, and he is trying to dictate mercedes policy in areas beyond the the performance of the F1 car, he should be told take it or leave it.

There is a whole other thread about Hamilton and they are talking about how he wants 50million and some deal with Mercedes on his terms. Anyway it's there to check out. No point talking about in here too.

Frank Bullitt · 18-01-2021 5:46pm

PopePalpatine wrote: »

IIRC it's that a V-engine can be used as a stressed member of the chassis but an inline engine can't.

Ferrari also didn't want the rules for 2014 to have inline engines as they do not produce any road cars with them. So they pushed for a V6.

[Deleted User] · 18-01-2021 6:20pm

PopePalpatine wrote: »

IIRC it's that a V-engine can be used as a stressed member of the chassis but an inline engine can't.

Fair enough, so let's just say V6 and V8. :pac:

Frank Bullitt wrote: »

Ferrari also didn't want the rules for 2014 to have inline engines as they do not produce any road cars with them. So they pushed for a V6.

So I think that's mostly just a marketing argument?

Frank Bullitt · 18-01-2021 7:45pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Fair enough, so let's just say V6 and V8. :pac:

So I think that's mostly just a marketing argument?

Marketing but also an engineering one.

Frank Bullitt · 19-01-2021 5:32pm

https://www.racefans.net/2021/01/18/why-hasnt-hamilton-signed-a-new-mercedes-deal-yet-theres-a-few-million-reasons/

Interesting article about the reasons for the hold up with Hamilton and Merc.

Back in October a source with knowledge of the situation told RaceFans that the two were 300% apart – adding that Mercedes boss Ola Källenius refused to budge above $20 million (£14.7m) for driver services simply as the oft-stated objective is for the team to be a profit- and not a cost-centre; Hamilton was then said to be pushing for $60m plus perks. A spokesperson denied this to be the case, but the ‘gap’ is sufficient to seriously hit profits.

ELM327 · 19-01-2021 5:39pm

I'd be so delighted if he priced himself out, and was out of the sport, watching Russel win the WDC in his car!

El_Duderino 09 · 19-01-2021 5:42pm

ELM327 wrote: »

I'd be so delighted if he priced himself out, and was out of the sport, watching Russel win the WDC in his car!

That would be amazing. Imagine Hamilton had to drive a crap car like a Williams. The whinging!

Anjobe · 19-01-2021 5:52pm

Frank Bullitt wrote: »

https://www.racefans.net/2021/01/18/why-hasnt-hamilton-signed-a-new-mercedes-deal-yet-theres-a-few-million-reasons/

Interesting article about the reasons for the hold up with Hamilton and Merc.

October was before Ineos bought a 1/3 ownership of the team though. Mercedes are no longer the majority owner so may not be able to prevent a deal with Hamilton if Ineos and Toto agree to it.

muckwarrior · 19-01-2021 5:57pm

ELM327 wrote: »

I'd be so delighted if he priced himself out, and was out of the sport, watching Russel win the WDC in his car!

He'd be stupid to let it happen. He risks undermining his whole legacy if a young driver can step into the car in his place and win the championship.

Top Dog · 19-01-2021 6:24pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

That would be amazing. Imagine Hamilton had to drive a crap car like a Williams. The whinging!

I don't think any other team would pay anywhere near what he's looking for, so if he can't get a deal done with Mercedes I can see him with no drive at all.

This is it · 19-01-2021 6:30pm

No way Hamilton drives for a low tier team this year, or probably ever. He can push all he wants but he knows, as do the rest of the world, that he's not needed to win the WDC for Mercedes. He might talk the talk but when it comes down to it, he's pretty much at their mercy contract wise in my opinion.

ELM327 · 19-01-2021 6:31pm

muckwarrior wrote: »

He'd be stupid to let it happen. He risks undermining his whole legacy if a young driver can step into the car in his place and win the championship.

Any competent driver would win the title in that car. Even bottas would win it if he had the likes of Latifi as a teammate.

He'd be stupid but he probably thinks he's got more leverage than he has. The mercedes will win the wdc in 2021, the only thing up for debate is which car will win. They won the constructors by so much last year, they would have won it with Lewis's points alone.

Top Dog wrote: »

I don't think any other team would pay anywhere near what he's looking for, so if he can't get a deal done with Mercedes I can see him with no drive at all.

Yes, I'd say it's mercedes or nothing.

Dont be at yourself · 19-01-2021 8:01pm

It is an interesting case of brinkmanship.

For 2021, it's Hamilton's only prospect for a drive, where he's guaranteed to eclipse Schumi's titles.

Merc/Toto/Ineos know that he's not needed to win the championship, given Bottas outpointed Verstappen, and given Russell's strong showing in Bahrain.

Red Bull and Ferrari equally seem quite committed to Max and Leclerc respectively (and that seems to be reciprocated by the drivers), so ultimately I think Hamilton is banking on Mercedes being nervous about the 2022 rule changes, or that McLaren perhaps re-emerge as contenders. Neither of which seem particularly likely.

El_Duderino 09 · 19-01-2021 9:15pm

Top Dog wrote: »

I don't think any other team would pay anywhere near what he's looking for, so if he can't get a deal done with Mercedes I can see him with no drive at all.

Yeah absolutely. But I don’t think Mercedes will pay what he’s asking for either. He’ll sign for a decent pay packet whatever way they work it out on the end.

Take Vettel as an example of how expectations can change. He was pissed off at Ferrari because he want willing to take a pay cut from his $30m and then he took an 80% pay cut to go to AM.

It’s not really relevant to Hamilton. Him and Mercedes will sign when they reach the best deal.

Bottas must be lighting candles and rubbing Buddha’s belly, hoping they fail to reach a deal.

Frank Bullitt · 19-01-2021 10:52pm

Anjobe wrote: »

October was before Ineos bought a 1/3 ownership of the team though. Mercedes are no longer the majority owner so may not be able to prevent a deal with Hamilton if Ineos and Toto agree to it.

Doesn't Toto answer to the board though? He is in the most precarious situation in all of this. He has a strong relationship with both Merc and Hamilton, but he has to answer to one over the other.

And then of course, there is Russell (or ANY available driver really), that can take Hamiltons place, maybe not totally dominate like him, but still win races and easily fill those boots.

This after all is when F1 is the least driver centric version it has been. Gone are the days really where a great driver will really make a difference, it is all set up in the sim and CFD, race simulations, the driver drives to a time and that is it.

rock22 · 20-01-2021 9:26am

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Take Vettel as an example of how expectations can change. He was pissed off at Ferrari because he want willing to take a pay cut from his $30m and then he took an 80% pay cut to go to AM.

.

You have made that statement twice that Vettel was not willing to take a pay cut. Have you anything to back it up ?
Because Ferrari stated there was no negotiation as they had decided they did not want Vettel. And Vettel eventually confirmed that .

quokula · 20-01-2021 10:02am

Frank Bullitt wrote: »

Doesn't Toto answer to the board though? He is in the most precarious situation in all of this. He has a strong relationship with both Merc and Hamilton, but he has to answer to one over the other.

And then of course, there is Russell (or ANY available driver really), that can take Hamiltons place, maybe not totally dominate like him, but still win races and easily fill those boots.

This after all is when F1 is the least driver centric version it has been. Gone are the days really where a great driver will really make a difference, it is all set up in the sim and CFD, race simulations, the driver drives to a time and that is it.

Yeah, the reality is that the deal is a formality and Hamilton will eventually have to agree to what is being offered. There's a reason why none of the major F1 media outlets are talking about it or speculating, beyond Eddie Jordan's attention seeking.

If they agree, Hamilton is guaranteed a world championship and a legacy as the most successful driver ever. If they don't agree, Mercedes are guaranteed both world championships regardless of who they hire, while Hamilton is either out of F1 or finds himself a seat at another team where his stock will be severely damaged, and he can forget about asking for big salaries again in future.

El_Duderino 09 · 20-01-2021 10:19am

rock22 wrote: »

You have made that statement twice that Vettel was not willing to take a pay cut. Have you anything to back it up ?
Because Ferrari stated there was no negotiation as they had decided they did not want Vettel. And Vettel eventually confirmed that .

I think they both said they had talks and the went as far as Ferrari saying there would need to be a substantial pay cut and Vettel saying he wouldn’t take a pay cut. So, Ferrari took him at his word and decided there was no way to reach a deal as they had very different expectations and replaced him with Sainz.

Vettel says there was no formal contract offered to him but Ferrari considered the discussion about money to be serious.

There was plenty of talk about it over the few months when it was happening - it didn’t gain much traction in this thread and the preferred narrative was to the effect of “Ferrari shafted Vettel”.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gpfans.com/amp/article.php?id=51291

https://racer.com/2020/05/12/money-did-not-factor-into-ferrari-exit-vettel/

https://www.planetf1.com/news/sebastian-vettel-ferrari-contract-2/

eviltimeban · 20-01-2021 10:44am

I wonder then is there any chance of Hamilton taking a sabbatical? And then coming back in 2022 with the new rules changes.

It's not beyond the realms of possibility, plus it would fit into his narrative about wanting to do other things. He could be involved in his activism while his profile is still high, reigning world champ and all that, and then come back in 2022 and fight for that 8th title.

El_Duderino 09 · 20-01-2021 11:38am

eviltimeban wrote: »

I wonder then is there any chance of Hamilton taking a sabbatical? And then coming back in 2022 with the new rules changes.

It's not beyond the realms of possibility, plus it would fit into his narrative about wanting to do other things. He could be involved in his activism while his profile is still high, reigning world champ and all that, and then come back in 2022 and fight for that 8th title.

I wondered about how the race the missed with Covid and how fan reactions affected him. The fans were pretty happy he wasn’t there and there would be a different story for the weekend. I imagine that would have been devastating for his ego that the fans were happier when he missed a race. And I think overall, fans would be delighted if he took a sabbatical. It would probably mean there would be a decent fight for the championship either within Mercedes or maybe even with max involved in the fight.

I might be reading way too much into it. But I wonder how he reacted to seeing fans generally enthused by his absence. It’s just the fact of having the best driver in the best car means there’s no competition for the championship, but I imagine such a media conscious guy would have to have been affected by it.

ELM327 · 20-01-2021 11:42am

eviltimeban wrote: »

I wonder then is there any chance of Hamilton taking a sabbatical? And then coming back in 2022 with the new rules changes.

It's not beyond the realms of possibility, plus it would fit into his narrative about wanting to do other things. He could be involved in his activism while his profile is still high, reigning world champ and all that, and then come back in 2022 and fight for that 8th title.

If he takes a sabbatical it will be the same as Mika's sabbatical.

duploelabs · 20-01-2021 11:48am

ELM327 wrote: »

If he takes a sabbatical it will be the same as Mika's sabbatical.

Mika took time off because he lost his fearlessness, if Hamilton did take one it'd be the same as alonsos

AMKC · 20-01-2021 11:54am

I see Alfa have released the launch date for there car on February 22nd. They are the first to announce there launch date but it might not be the earliest date.

Andrew76 · 20-01-2021 12:51pm

eviltimeban wrote: »

I wonder then is there any chance of Hamilton taking a sabbatical? And then coming back in 2022 with the new rules changes.

It's not beyond the realms of possibility, plus it would fit into his narrative about wanting to do other things. He could be involved in his activism while his profile is still high, reigning world champ and all that, and then come back in 2022 and fight for that 8th title.

Can't see that happening, I'd say he wants to extend his records as much as possible while Merc are on top.

quokula · 20-01-2021 1:45pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I wondered about how the race the missed with Covid and how fan reactions affected him. The fans were pretty happy he wasn’t there and there would be a different story for the weekend. I imagine that would have been devastating for his ego that the fans were happier when he missed a race. And I think overall, fans would be delighted if he took a sabbatical. It would probably mean there would be a decent fight for the championship either within Mercedes or maybe even with max involved in the fight.

I might be reading way too much into it. But I wonder how he reacted to seeing fans generally enthused by his absence. It’s just the fact of having the best driver in the best car means there’s no competition for the championship, but I imagine such a media conscious guy would have to have been affected by it.

The excitement came from finding out if a guy who'd never been anywhere other than the back of the grid, who had less than two years of F1 experience, and who had no time to acclimatise to the car or even have a proper seat fitting, could beat Bottas as easily as Hamilton could. And the answer was a definitive yes.

It's delusional to think Mercedes would suddenly find themselves in a championship battle without Hamilton in the car.

Now if they were to replace Bottas with an above average driver like Rosberg was, then that would make for a good teammate battle. But the team seem to have no interest in that.

eviltimeban · 20-01-2021 2:58pm

I wonder when Bottas will start trotting out the famous David Coulthard "it's my year" line?

Anjobe · 20-01-2021 3:21pm

eviltimeban wrote: »

I wonder when Bottas will start trotting out the famous David Coulthard "it's my year" line?

"Bottas 2.0" etc is his version, isn't it? I think last year we got "Bottas Vista".

Jordan 199 · 20-01-2021 3:54pm

El_Duderino 09 · 20-01-2021 4:00pm

Jordan 199 wrote: »

Good man Sergio. I don’t rate him very highly but I really hope I’m wrong about him. This is his year to test himself against a top driver in a top machine and prove people like me wrong.

This is it · 20-01-2021 6:07pm

Although I'm resigned to the fact that Hamilton will win the drivers championship and Mercedes the constructors, I'm looking forward to the changes in drivers and the new drivers this season.

Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)

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