Pope Francis says same sex civil unions are fine.

Spanish Eyes · 22-10-2020 12:01am #1

Now that is a turn up for the books. But I think he really means that SS couples should avoid sex (the Catholic view) and just make it legal to protect themselves.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/worl...tary-1.4387301

What do you think, or do you care?

Overheal · 22-10-2020 12:03am

I for one welcome our new same sex overlords.

Man with broke phone · 22-10-2020 12:05am

We should probaly tell religeous leaders to buck off really , all of them.

Encourage personal religon.

Encourage people reading and comprehending things for themselves instead of needing a man in a dress to tell them what it means.

Objective thinking.

Itssoeasy · 22-10-2020 12:07am

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Now that is a turn up for the books. But I think he really means that SS couples should avoid sex (the Catholic view) and just make it legal to protect themselves.

What do you think, or do you care?

Is this the first time the Catholic Church has gone this far in regards to Same sex couples and the issue of civil unions ? I know we won’t ever see them say same sexy marriage is allowed in the CC because it goes against the whole marriage is ordained between a man and a woman in the churches eyes which does seem like something they couldn’t move on. It’s something to acknowledge I suppose but probably best not to expect anything more.

Quantum Erasure · 22-10-2020 12:08am

I think he's the anti-Pope, destroying the church from the inside. It's not the first time he's done something like this, ....

KaneToad · 22-10-2020 12:08am

He's the head of the catholic church. What he says are the rules. If you don't like it, why would you stay a catholic? Vote with you feet folks.

Overheal · 22-10-2020 12:09am

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

I think he's the anti-Pope, destroying the church from the inside. It's not the first time he's done something like this, ....

Don’t think there’s been an anti-pope quite this near to the destruction of the order since at least the one who adopted the spherical earth theory

Spanish Eyes · 22-10-2020 12:10am

Pope Francis is a Christian in the best sense of the word AFAIS. I have no religion now but actually admired him for saying what he did.

We shall see what the fallout is from the Fundies soon enough, or they may just stay quiet, who knows.

Man with broke phone · 22-10-2020 12:12am

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

I think he's the anti-Pope, destroying the church from the inside. It's not the first time he's done something like this, ....

What about the one who was into the whole molesting, forced adoption and cover up stuff were they posi-popes?

Montage of Feck · 22-10-2020 12:14am

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

I think he's the anti-Pope, destroying the church from the inside. It's not the first time he's done something like this, ....

Or maybe he's just following in the example of jesus christ, like a Christian.

Itssoeasy · 22-10-2020 12:16am

Montage of Feck wrote: »

Or maybe he's just following in the example of jesus christ.

It’s a novel idea of the leader of the church founded by Jesus to follow his example. But I mean the trial period is over I suppose at this stage.

One eyed Jack · 22-10-2020 12:16am

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

What do you think, or do you care?

I like Pope Frank, but he’s a clever bastard too. He’s saying nothing about the Catholic view of marriage, but rather encouraging Catholic homosexuals and people who are transgender to see civil unions as a way to protect themselves in civil law and exercise their right to have a family.

Essentially, the Church’s position (and his own) on marriage within the Church hasn’t changed, he’s just encouraging civil unions, which he knows no doubt do not carry the same legal protections and rights in most jurisdictions, as marriage.

I don’t think it’s any big change, it’s just the same thing, said differently.

Spanish Eyes · 22-10-2020 12:19am

And there I was thinking that the previous incumbent with the red shoes was the Anti Pope, whats his name, Benny I think, he scarpered quick enough and is still eating his pasta. I bet the Borgias were squeaky clean too.

But we can all read about the history of the Popes, this one Francis is something else though and full marks for his bravery in saying what he did. Not that I give any credence to his rules, but it is a signal of sorts I think.

[Deleted User] · 22-10-2020 12:20am

Why would anyone care what a celibate who believes in virgin births and bread becoming the body of a dead man risen thinks about such things?

Pope Francis, along with all the others who live such truly unnatural lives are the last people anyone should pay attention to when it comes to personal relationships.

You might as well ask your mechanic or your butcher. There’s a better chance that one of them have experience to rely upon, rather than a book of nonsense and 2020 years of twisted thinking.

440Hertz · 22-10-2020 12:20am

It's an organisation that really needs to change if it's going to survive. The history of hardcore ultra conservative dogma hasn't always been at it's core and when and where it has been, including in Ireland for much of the 20th century, it did huge damage.

It's certainly not going to get me rushing to mass, I was never religious but I formally defected, when it was still possible, because I didn't want to be part of an organisation that held extremely negative views of people like me and that had failed to do very much about any of the horrendous abuse that went on here and elsewhere in institutions it ran. Its positions on women's rights, contraception and many, many other things also just don't sit very well with me at all.

However, it's a hugely influential organisation and I'm glad to see its leadership is finally starting to look at the reality of being human and getting past some of the nonsense that caused misery for very many people.

It could do a lot of good by standing up to the fundies.

LillySV · 22-10-2020 12:22am

Wouldn’t make a difference what he says ... pathetic dickheads would still find fault

Donald Trump · 22-10-2020 12:25am

Man with broke phone wrote: »

We should probaly tell religeous leaders to buck off really , all of them.

Encourage personal religon.

Encourage people reading and comprehending things for themselves instead of needing a man in a dress to tell them what it means.

Objective thinking.

When people read, they read things written by other people. Reading something that someone else wrote is no different to hearing them saying it.

Ironically, you probably heard about what the Pope said by reading about it and making up your own mind. Same as everyone else.

Spanish Eyes · 22-10-2020 12:25am

LillySV wrote: »

Wouldn’t make a difference what he says ... pathetic dickheads would still find fault

Better to say it and have a rant/debate than keep the oul Fundies in their bubble though.

Real Donald Trump · 22-10-2020 12:28am

Man with broke phone wrote: »

We should probaly tell religeous leaders to buck off really , all of them.

Encourage personal religon.

Encourage people reading and comprehending things for themselves instead of needing a man in a dress to tell them what it means.

Objective thinking.

Careful now, this might upset our Muslim friends, we dont want to be classed as racist now, do we?

eviltwin · 22-10-2020 12:29am

LillySV wrote: »

Wouldn’t make a difference what he says ... pathetic dickheads would still find fault

When he embraces full equality it will be something worth mentioning. Until then it’s like everything else that lot do, bullsh1t.

Donald Trump · 22-10-2020 12:36am

eviltwin wrote: »

When he embraces full equality it will be something worth mentioning. Until then it’s like everything else that lot do, bullsh1t.

It's a massive organization with well over a billion members. How fast would you expect such an organization to move? You have to be realistic here.

Also, out of all those diverse billion-odd individuals, it would be unlikely that any organization can find a magic formula that suits each and every single one of their preferences exactly simultaneously. And it's unlikely that they will choose the particular set of rules or guidelines that you yourself would like to see. It's unrealistic to expect it too.

AllForIt · 22-10-2020 2:40am

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I like Pope Frank, but he’s a clever bastard too. He’s saying nothing about the Catholic view of marriage, but rather encouraging Catholic homosexuals and people who are transgender to see civil unions as a way to protect themselves in civil law and exercise their right to have a family.

Essentially, the Church’s position (and his own) on marriage within the Church hasn’t changed, he’s just encouraging civil unions, which he knows no doubt do not carry the same legal protections and rights in most jurisdictions, as marriage.

I don’t think it’s any big change, it’s just the same thing, said differently.

What marriage issues do transgender ppl face particularly? I never knew they had any. They were always able to get married as far as I was aware. I didn't read PF said anything about transgender people in any of the reports and can't think of any reason why they might prefer to opt for a civil marriage.

One eyed Jack · 22-10-2020 7:02am

AllForIt wrote: »

What marriage issues do transgender ppl face particularly? I never knew they had any. They were always able to get married as far as I was aware. I didn't read PF said anything about transgender people in any of the reports and can't think of any reason why they might prefer to opt for a civil marriage.

Depending upon the jurisdiction they’re in, they may face significant differences in what rights and protections they are afforded on the basis of their legal status as to whether they are qualified to enter into marriage in the first place, whether they may be recognised in law as their preferred gender, whether they may benefit from their spouses medical cover provided by their employer, and just what that medical cover covers and whether or not they may be forced to divorce in order to be recognised in law as their preferred gender, at which point if they have children they will encounter a whole other type of discrimination that is specifically only experienced by being transgender, which is how they are regarded in family law, depending upon the jurisdiction.

Pope Frank only a couple of months ago again muddied the waters by not saying anything different that hadn’t been said before about the Catholic Church’s position on transgenderism, basically that it undermines the family and so on, and as such it’s not even a real thing.

I can imagine one reason why they might opt for civil marriage, because they would have more rights and legal recognition as a family and their children would have greater legal recognition and protection than if they were only in a civil union. All Pope Francis is basically saying is that the Church’s position hasn’t changed, and won’t be changing, but instead of supporting civil marriage equality, he says “we” have to create “civil union law”, which he knows damn well has nothing to do with him or the Church. He’s put the pressure on political leaders while he again looks like the good guy for having merely reiterated what the Church has always maintained.

eviltwin · 22-10-2020 7:38am

Donald Trump wrote: »

It's a massive organization with well over a billion members. How fast would you expect such an organization to move? You have to be realistic here.

Also, out of all those diverse billion-odd individuals, it would be unlikely that any organization can find a magic formula that suits each and every single one of their preferences exactly simultaneously. And it's unlikely that they will choose the particular set of rules or guidelines that you yourself would like to see. It's unrealistic to expect it too.

Not expecting anything DT. They have their views on homosexuality and probably will never change them. My point is more to do with all the people saying it’s wonderful and amazing etc. It’s not. What exactly has changed as a result of this? Nothing.

Graces7 · 22-10-2020 7:45am

LillySV wrote: »

Wouldn’t make a difference what he says ... pathetic dickheads would still find fault

And he made it very clear that he referred to "civil UNIONS" and not any form of marriage, in compassion as everyone needs family.

Perfectly... Christian, in the deepest sense.

NB there is an interesting discussion on this on the Catholic Answers forum by Catholics and non-Catholics

stoneill · 22-10-2020 7:48am

Overheal wrote: »

Don’t think there’s been an anti-pope quite this near to the destruction of the order since at least the one who adopted the spherical earth theory

Stop that nonsense, next thing you'll be saying is Earth orbits the Sun instead of the big crystal spheres

SEPT 23 1989 · 22-10-2020 8:01am

and women will still not be allowed become priests

storker · 22-10-2020 8:17am

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Pope Francis is a Christian in the best sense of the word AFAIS. I have no religion now but actually admired him for saying what he did.

We shall see what the fallout is from the Fundies soon enough, or they may just stay quiet, who knows.

Funny how the Pope is infallible until he says something certain Catholics don't like.

storker · 22-10-2020 8:20am

eviltwin wrote: »

Not expecting anything DT. They have their views on homosexuality and probably will never change them. My point is more to do with all the people saying it’s wonderful and amazing etc. It’s not. What exactly has changed as a result of this? Nothing.

I think you have to give the RCC some credit. Compare and contrast with some of the co-called "Christian" religions in the US with their gay-hating, faith-healing and young-earth creationism and the Vatican starts to look progressive.

And I'm not a fan of the church at all.

ohnonotgmail · 22-10-2020 9:10am

storker wrote: »

Funny how the Pope is infallible until he says something certain Catholics don't like.

was the pope speaking ex cathedra when he made those comments? if not papal infallibility is irrelevant.

storker · 22-10-2020 9:12am

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

was the pope speaking ex cathedra when he made those comments? if not papal infallibility is irrelevant.

Ah, so he has to say "Here's the infallible bit...". Right. Makes total sense.

Pope Francis says same sex civil unions are fine.

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