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Anti #MeToo letter defends men's right to 'steal a kiss'

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24

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    #32
    Rory28
    Registered Users Posts: 1,190 ✭✭✭Rory28


    It all goes back to rules 1 and 2

    1. Be attractive

    2. Don't not be attractive

    Pretty simple stuff guys


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    #33
    Hector Savage
    Registered Users Posts: 8,810 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    riffmongous wrote: »
    Hmm, she was also defending that rapist Polanski a few months ago..

    Yep, just like Meryl Streep ... but eh .. Meryl Streep is a "progressive liberal" that is behind the #MeToo movement - also she got into hysterics over Trump so she must be ok right ?


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    #34
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,625 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Hector Savage wrote: »
    Yep, just like Meryl Streep ... but eh .. Meryl Streep is a "progressive liberal" that is behind the #MeToo movement - also she got into hysterics over Trump so she must be ok right ?

    See post number 8.

    And sorry but it's starting to smack a bit of whataboutery, Streep is an idiot but she's not the subject of the thread is she


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    #35
    Akrasia
    Registered Users Posts: 22,234 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Wombatman wrote: »
    More than 100 prominent French women from all walks of life caused a major stir this week after publishing an editorial in Le Monde, France’s newspaper of record, arguing that the recent backlash against sexual harassment had become a “witch hunt.” The signers included the 14-time Caesar Award nominee Catherine Deneuve, as well as Catherine Robbe-Grillet, a comedian that Vanity Fair once dubbed the country’s most famous dominatrix.

    “Men have been punished… when all they did was touch someone’s knee or try to steal a kiss,” the women write. “The haste to send the ‘pigs’ to the abattoir, far from liberating women, in reality serves the interests of the enemies of sexual liberty, the religious extremists, the worst reactionaries.” (The French equivalent of #MeToo is #BalanceTonPorc, or “squeal on your pig.”)
    Anyone who has ever watched James Bond movies without being outraged is a hypocrite if they get outraged by this


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    #36
    twowheelsonly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,268 ✭✭✭twowheelsonly


    Lollipops23 wrote: »
    Thing is, random men putting their hands on me without my say so does make me really feckin uncomfortable. It's not the same as rape or sexual assault, but it doesn't mean it's ok. No woman should have to put up with an overly touchy boss or men in bars. If this mass hysteria means it doesn't go on as much in the future, so be it.

    It really does depend on the nature of 'putting their hands on' you though. A lot of people are quite tactile and will touch others or reach out to others as they're speaking / having drinks / having a laugh etc. Men do it with other men all the time and women do so with women. Somehow though, when men do it to women it becomes a big no-no. IMO a lot of women read far too much into what can often be just friendly gestures.


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    #37
    Feisar
    Registered Users Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭Feisar


    As a young lad that used to collect glasses in a nightclub I lost count of the amount of times females grabbed me by the crotch so I suppose #metoo

    First they came for the socialists...



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    #38
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    Lollipops23 wrote: »
    Thing is, random men putting their hands on me without my say so does make me really feckin uncomfortable. It's not the same as rape or sexual assault, but it doesn't mean it's ok. No woman should have to put up with an overly touchy boss or men in bars. If this mass hysteria means it doesn't go on as much in the future, so be it.

    There seems to be this implication that most men are ok with these dick bosses and guys. We never were and still aren't. Women have kept this a closely guarded secret from men to such an extent that I had to flat out ask my daughter and wife about it to find out anything. From that perspective and for awareness of how common sexual assault is #MeToo was really positive.

    The point is that no women will have to put up with an overly touchy male boss or male boss of any sort because he won't hire any women for fear of sexual harassment accusations. Also it's been hijacked by hypocrites within Hollywood - case in point Oprah, Harvey Weinstein's best friend until recently - for political reasons. Nothing brave about that.


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    #39
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    twowheelsonly wrote: »
    Lollipops23 wrote: »
    Thing is, random men putting their hands on me without my say so does make me really feckin uncomfortable. It's not the same as rape or sexual assault, but it doesn't mean it's ok. No woman should have to put up with an overly touchy boss or men in bars. If this mass hysteria means it doesn't go on as much in the future, so be it.

    It really does depend on the nature of 'putting their hands on' you though. A lot of people are quite tactile and will touch others or reach out to others as they're speaking / having drinks / having a laugh etc. Men do it with other men all the time and women do so with women. Somehow though, when men do it to women it becomes a big no-no. IMO a lot of women read far too much into what can often be just friendly gestures.

    Women are WAY more touchy feely than men are. I've been touched on the arm, hugged or snuggled up to more times than I can count by women without once agreeing to it. Sometimes I felt uncomfortable. Is that harassment? According to some, yes. I'm not bothered by it as I know the women in question and they are otherwise fine. If I was a woman and saw a payoff or a way to get rid of a boss that stood in the way of my promotion ... Well then all bets are off.


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    #40
    GingerLily
    Registered Users Posts: 4,767 ✭✭✭GingerLily


    Feisar wrote: »
    As a young lad that used to collect glasses in a nightclub I lost count of the amount of times females grabbed me by the crotch so I suppose #metoo

    That sounds horrible, sorry to hear that


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    #41
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    B.A._Baracus wrote: »
    Lollipops23 wrote: »
    Thing is, random men putting their hands on me without my say so does make me really feckin uncomfortable. It's not the same as rape or sexual assault, but it doesn't mean it's ok. No woman should have to put up with an overly touchy boss or men in bars. If this mass hysteria means it doesn't go on as much in the future, so be it.

    Out of curiosity how many men over here have done it?

    I've never done it as I was raised in the era of the firm handshake. Unless you count ""shifting" as I never actually asked when going in for a the kiss. Of course if she pulled away I didn't insist. Lately I would hug certain close female friends.


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    #42
    wench
    Registered Users Posts: 1,630 ✭✭✭wench


    twowheelsonly wrote: »
    It really does depend on the nature of 'putting their hands on' you though. A lot of people are quite tactile and will touch others or reach out to others as they're speaking / having drinks / having a laugh etc. Men do it with other men all the time and women do so with women. Somehow though, when men do it to women it becomes a big no-no. IMO a lot of women read far too much into what can often be just friendly gestures.
    Having someone you just met start pawing at your breasts or trying to lob the gob isn't a friendly gesture.


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    #43
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    professore wrote: »
    I've never done it as I was raised in the era of the firm handshake. Unless you count ""shifting" as I never actually asked when going in for a the kiss. Of course if she pulled away I didn't insist. Lately I would hug certain close female friends.

    Ditto. I'm generally "shy" about touching other people. I will test the "waters" by touching the elbow, wrist, etc on a date or if there's an indication of intimacy. I always felt that touching the "soft" areas was intrusive. A kiss is easily discovered by leaning in and hovering... if she's interested she'll lean in the remainder, otherwise pull back.

    But yes, women tend to be more open about touching a man pretty much anywhere without it suggesting an interest... And yet, never wonder why guys get the wrong signals from that touching.


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    #44
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    wench wrote: »
    Having someone you just met start pawing at your breasts or trying to lob the gob isn't a friendly gesture.

    Definitely, Agree... but how often does that actually happen?

    I'm curious... where were you when this happened?


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    #45
    wench
    Registered Users Posts: 1,630 ✭✭✭wench


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Definitely, Agree... but how often does that actually happen?

    I'm curious... where were you when this happened?
    More often than you'd think! Usually in broad daylight sitting reading a book in a park.


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    #46
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    wench wrote: »
    More often than you'd think! Usually in broad daylight sitting reading a book in a park.

    Sitting in a park reading a book... and a guy comes up to grab your breasts? and it happens more often than I think? (I'm thinking it's very rare)

    Right now, I'm very skeptical. I can understand it happening in a nightclub or where alcohol is involved but your example seems... unlikely except as a very rare occurrence.


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    #47
    wench
    Registered Users Posts: 1,630 ✭✭✭wench


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Sitting in a park reading a book... and a guy comes up to grab your breasts? and it happens more often than I think? (I'm thinking it's very rare)

    Right now, I'm very skeptical. I can understand it happening in a nightclub or where alcohol is involved but your example seems... unlikely except as a very rare occurrence.
    Yeah, what would I know, they're only my breasts.
    I recall four distinct occasions where it went past the usual sitting too close and following when trying to leave.


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    #48
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    wench wrote: »
    Yeah, what would I know, they're only my breasts.

    I recall four distinct occasions where it went past the usual sitting too close and following when trying to leave.

    Ahh ok. It's Not a guy coming over and grabbing your breasts. It's a creepy guy in a park who tries to pick you up and ends up stalking you out of the park.

    I can definitely see how that reflects on the normal guys you meet normally...


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    #49
    Stonedpilot
    Registered Users Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭Stonedpilot


    Feisar wrote: »
    As a young lad that used to collect glasses in a nightclub I lost count of the amount of times females grabbed me by the crotch so I suppose #metoo

    Grab them back by the crotch. You'd have ride 7 nights a week.


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    #50
    wench
    Registered Users Posts: 1,630 ✭✭✭wench


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Ahh ok. It's Not a guy coming over and grabbing your breasts. It's a creepy guy in a park who tries to pick you up and ends up stalking you out of the park.

    I can definitely see how that reflects on the normal guys you meet normally...
    Thanks for dismissing my experience.

    The thing is though, it does reflect on the "normal" guys i meet, because when you get creeped on often enough, you start to be suspicious of all approaches.

    And I'm sure the men in the parks thought they were normal, they weren't sleezy ould geezers in trenchcoats or whatever stereotype you want to play here


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    #51
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    wench wrote: »
    Thanks for dismissing my experience.

    Thanks for over-reacting to being questioned... :rolleyes:
    The thing is though, it does reflect on the "normal" guys i meet, because when you get creeped on often enough, you start to be suspicious of all approaches.

    And I'm sure the men in the parks thought they were normal, they weren't sleezy ould geezers in trenchcoats or whatever stereotype you want to play here

    Fair enough. You were approached by four guys in parks, refused them and were followed by them as you left. Are these the same guys that grabbed your breasts? or did they just approach you and make you uncomfortable?

    Just trying to connect your statements.


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    #52
    wench
    Registered Users Posts: 1,630 ✭✭✭wench


    The questions were fine, the sarcasm was the problem.

    I used to regularly go to parks when my living arrangements didn't include outside space.

    Over that time a number of men would have sat beside me and tried to start a conversation.
    Most would take "sorry, i'm not interested" for an answer.
    Some wouldn't, would sit much too close, and scootch along if I tried to open up a gap.
    Some of those would also try to follow along if I got up to leave.

    And a small subset of those would be the four who took it to the next level and started the grabbing and attempted kissing.

    I don't read in parks any more.

    Happy now?


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    #53
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    wench wrote: »
    Happy now?

    Ecstatic.

    The sarcasm only entered towards the end. You really need to get past this victim mentality. Questioning your posts is not an attack on you.


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    #54
    GingerLily
    Registered Users Posts: 4,767 ✭✭✭GingerLily


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Ecstatic.

    The sarcasm only entered towards the end. You really need to get past this victim mentality. Questioning your posts is not an attack on you.

    That's just so condescending....


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    #55
    pq0n1ct4ve8zf5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Ecstatic.

    The sarcasm only entered towards the end. You really need to get past this victim mentality. Questioning your posts is not an attack on you.

    Nice. Say you don't believe what she's talking about happens often, and when she clarifies that actually it's pretty often, play the woman and not the ball.

    It's been constant in this debate.

    "These things happen"

    "Ah that doesn't happen, or only super rarely."

    "Well these are the times it happened to me"

    "Ok but now the issue is stop being so annoying and going on about the thing I questioned you about"


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    #56
    SCOOP 64
    Registered Users Posts: 5,207 ✭✭✭SCOOP 64


    wench wrote: »
    The questions were fine, the sarcasm was the problem.

    I used to regularly go to parks when my living arrangements didn't include outside space.

    Over that time a number of men would have sat beside me and tried to start a conversation.
    Most would take "sorry, i'm not interested" for an answer.
    Some wouldn't, would sit much too close, and scootch along if I tried to open up a gap.
    Some of those would also try to follow along if I got up to leave.

    And a small subset of those would be the four who took it to the next level and started the grabbing and attempted kissing.

    I don't read in parks any more.

    Happy now?

    What parks do you read in:confused:
    Take it it was daylight hours not 3 in the morning:pac:


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    #57
    wench
    Registered Users Posts: 1,630 ✭✭✭wench


    SCOOP 64 wrote: »
    What parks do you read in:confused:
    Take it it was daylight hours not 3 in the morning:pac:
    Just normal city parks, in the middle of the day with plenty of people around.


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    #58
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,951 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    Alisha Faint Shiner wrote: »
    Nice. Say you don't believe what she's talking about happens often, and when she clarifies that actually it's pretty often, play the woman and not the ball.

    It's been constant in this debate.

    "These things happen"

    "Ah that doesn't happen, or only super rarely."

    "Well these are the times it happened to me"

    "Ok but now the issue is stop being so annoying and going on about the thing I questioned you about"

    Check the post history - Klaz is a big fan of approaching women in public places so he's understandably defensive when a woman who is regularly approached talks about the negative effect such approaches have on her life.


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    #59
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    GingerLily wrote: »
    That's just so condescending....

    Yup. Intentionally so.
    Alisha Faint Shiner wrote: »
    Nice. Say you don't believe what she's talking about happens often, and when she clarifies that actually it's pretty often, play the woman and not the ball.

    She started by saying that men grabbing her breasts happened more often than I thought. She then moved to talking about being harassed in a park. I asked questions about both to see if they were connected.

    I said I was skeptical of the claim of men grabbing her breasts in a park. Which I am.

    Nothing I said was targeted at her personally, and each question sought clarification on her original statement, which was very vague... and siimply expected us to accept it on face value.
    It's been constant in this debate.

    That we should query vague statements of abuse/harassment and seek some details? Gosh... how terrible of us! And yes, that is sarcasm.


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    #60
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    B0jangles wrote: »
    Check the post history - Klaz is a big fan of approaching women in public places so he's understandably defensive when a woman who is regularly approached talks about the negative effect such approaches have on her life.

    For shame! That a man would approach a woman in a public setting, and talk to her.

    Unless you're trying to suggest something else of which you have no evidence whatsoever? :rolleyes:


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    #61
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,951 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    Deleted User wrote: »
    For shame! That a man would approach a woman in a public setting, and talk to her.

    Unless you're trying to suggest something else of which you have no evidence whatsoever? :rolleyes:

    Absolutely not suggesting anything further; I'm pointing out that you engage in a perfectly legal habit which many women find unpleasant and intrusive.

    Other women do not find it unpleasant and intrusive which is presumably why you do it.

    You seem to find it extremely difficult to accept that your hobby has any negative consequences.

    The poster above described how being repeatedly approached by guys when she was just trying to read in a park has meant that she just doesn't read outside any more. That is a negative consequence of a hobby like yours.


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