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Shelbourne Hotel remove historic statues due to association with slavery - *Read OP**

  • 28-07-2020 10:42pm
    #1
    JupiterKid
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,564 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    So the iconic and historic Shelbourne Hotel on St Stephens Green in Dublin, considered the “Grand Dame” of Irish hotels, has controversially taken down the four metal statues that adorned its front entrance - as the company who now owns the hotel believes that in the current “Black Lives Matter” climate that it would be completely inappropriate to keep the 153 year old statues.

    Architectural historians and conservationists including the Irish Georgian Society are up in arms over this move. Some have asked where does all this virtue signaling end? Demolish all the 18th and 19th Century buildings built on the possible profits from the slave trade?

    What are the views of posters here on this apparent storm in a teacup?

    Mod warning 31/07/20
    mike_ie wrote: »
    Mod: Thread has gone wildly off topic. Can we please get back to discussing the removal of historic statues from the Shelbourne Hotel and the actual content of the Prime Time discussion, rather than your personal feelings about Dr Ebun Joseph.


«134567…47

Comments

  • #2
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,169 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    JupiterKid wrote: »
    So the iconic and historic Shelbourne Hotel on St Stephens Green in Dublin, considered the “Grand Dame” of Irish hotels, has controversially taken down the four metal statues that adorned its front entrance - as the company who now owns the hotel believes that in the current “Black Lives Matter” climate that it would be completely inappropriate to keep the 153 year old statues.

    Architectural historians and conservationists including the Irish Georgian Society are up in arms over this move. Some have asked where does all this virtue signaling end? Demolish all the 18th and 19th Century buildings built on the possible profits from the slave trade?

    What are the views of posters here on this apparent storm in a teacup?

    Do you have a link to this story?

    Do you have a link to tell us what the statues were and who they were?

    Do you have a link to whether it was about how the statues were built or who they were?

    What has it got to do with buildings in general?


  • #3
    KaneToad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,160 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Do you have a link to this story?

    Do you have a link to tell us what the statues were and who they were?

    Do you have a link to whether it was about how the statues were built or who they were?

    What has it got to do with buildings in general?

    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/statues-of-slaves-removed-from-outside-the-shelbourne-hotel-39404931.html


  • #4
    Beechwoodspark
    Registered Users Posts: 15,281 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Regular Patron of the hotel and was never bothered by the sculpture.


  • #5
    Skyfloater
    Registered Users Posts: 398 ✭✭Skyfloater


    Why not say that they're water nymphs or vestal virgins instead and stop all this nonsense.


  • #6
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,704 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    How are they allowed to do this? Surely they have artistic and historical value. This is crazy.

    I wish people gave one per cent of a **** about actual slaves in the world we would be better off. There are actual slave markets in Libya, there are child soldiers, poor Nepali men dying for buildings in the gulf, camps in China.

    But ohhhhh no something happened in the US a hundred and fifty years ago. It's truly sickening.

    Only US lives matter it seems.


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  • #7
    sabat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,896 ✭✭✭sabat


    Illegal surely?


  • #8
    Montage of Feck
    Registered Users Posts: 3,491 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    The statues were hardly there as a celebration of slavery were they now?

    🙈🙉🙊



  • #9
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,577 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    World is fooking mad....and the maddest thing is that it's going to get madder...


  • #10
    KaneToad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,160 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    Wait till they start going through the art galleries of the world and start removing the masterpieces that depict unsavoury content.


  • #11
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,092 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    How are they allowed to do this? Surely they have artistic and historical value. This is crazy.

    I wish people gave one per cent of a **** about actual slaves in the world we would be better off. There are actual slave markets in Libya, there are child soldiers, poor Nepali men dying for buildings in the gulf, camps in China.

    But ohhhhh no something happened in the US a hundred and fifty years ago. It's truly sickening.

    Only US lives matter it seems.

    Its says the depictions are of Nubian princesses and their slave girls. So its literally nothing to do with the US or their slave trade but a depiction of African history. Seems a bit ott to remove them.


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  • #12
    y0ssar1an22
    Registered Users Posts: 15,970 ✭✭✭✭y0ssar1an22


    the fact that they were removed, is an acknowledgment that the statues in some way support slavery, is that correct? Otherwise, why remove them?

    and if that is the case, are the owners now admitting that they by extension were supporting slavery up until today? Otherwise, why not remove them when they took ownership?


  • #13
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,918 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    sabat wrote: »
    Illegal surely?

    Illegal for the hotel to change its own decorations? Do people not even pretend to read the stories before a kneejerk reaction?


  • #14
    thebaz
    Registered Users Posts: 13,574 ✭✭✭✭thebaz


    as a Supporter of Black Lives Matter - I think this FAKE virtue signalling by the Shelbournbe hotel and the Marriot hotel group trying to be so hip and woke - when in reality they only care for bottom line profit and feeding and caring for the Super rich - The Marriot hotel group Marketing team planned this so the gullible public will think how great they are - well I'm not fooled.


  • #15
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,704 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    Its says the depictions are of Nubian princesses and their slave girls. So its literally nothing to do with the US or their slave trade but a depiction of African history. Seems a bit ott to remove them.

    Nothing to do with the US? Really?

    It's just a coincidence they are being removed now?


  • #16
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,918 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Montage of Feck wrote: »
    The statues were hardly there as a celebration of slavery were they now?

    They were statues of slaves ffs What do you think they were for? Lol. It'll take some really limber mental gymnastics to make the anti BLM argument on this.


  • #17
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,865 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Where will this all end? I doubt anyone cared about the two Nubian lassies carrying the lamps. But now it's all news.

    Publicity perhaps. But the US visitors won't be here anytime soon anyway. Maybe those qualifying for PUP can go there on their holliers without losing their benefit.

    As another poster said, we will be left with nothing only glass and trees and a few chairs before long. Modern slavery is what should be paramount now. History is history.


  • #18
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,590 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    JupiterKid wrote: »
    So the iconic and historic Shelbourne Hotel on St Stephens Green in Dublin, considered the “Grand Dame” of Irish hotels, has controversially taken down the four metal statues that adorned its front entrance - as the company who now owns the hotel believes that in the current “Black Lives Matter” climate that it would be completely inappropriate to keep the 153 year old statues.

    Architectural historians and conservationists including the Irish Georgian Society are up in arms over this move. Some have asked where does all this virtue signaling end? Demolish all the 18th and 19th Century buildings built on the possible profits from the slave trade?

    What are the views of posters here on this apparent storm in a teacup?

    So they “removed” the statues but you’ve gone for the slippery slope of “demolish all the 18th and 19th century buildings” - seems to be the only storm in a teacup here tbh. The statues aren’t demolished yes just removed from the hotel front?


  • #19
    o1s1n
    Registered Users Posts: 34,391 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    They were statues of slaves ffs What do you think they were for? Lol. It'll take some really limber mental gymnastics to make the anti BLM argument on this.

    They were a piece of Dublin heritage dating back 153 years.

    Here's a picture of them from the 1890s. Think of all the people who have walked under them over the years.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/RobCross247/status/1288226272909434881?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

    It's cultural vandalism.


  • #20
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Montage of Feck wrote: »
    The statues were hardly there as a celebration of slavery were they now?

    not until it was pointed out. Id say they were removed for their own protection. Hopefully to be reinstalled in a more enlightened future when this obsession with vaporising history ends.


  • #21
    Rodney Bathgate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,445 ✭✭✭Rodney Bathgate


    His story? Sexist.


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  • #22
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 32,972 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Maybe best to take them down in good condition before a numbskull comes at them with an angle grinder.


  • #23
    LessOutragePlz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,358 ✭✭✭LessOutragePlz


    The outrage will never end.


  • #24
    Signore Fancy Pants
    Registered Users Posts: 3,682 ✭✭✭Signore Fancy Pants


    I think tokenism for the sake of tokenism in any context is retarded.

    Obviously they felt "expected" to remove the statues. In reality, it is highly doubtful that the statues themselves were a celebration of slavery.

    I think the erasing of (even distateful) history from times past is as bad as the distasteful history itself.


  • #25
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,865 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Rodney Bathgate wrote: »
    His story? Sexist.

    I don't think Aristotle or the Greeks would agree with you at all ;)


  • #26
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,865 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    When all aspects of BLM anger are eventually removed, no one will know anything about slavery unless they read about it in a book if they are that bothered. Some things should remain on view as a lesson to the bewildered.


  • #27
    Leg End Reject
    Registered Users Posts: 16,318 ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    It's a shame to remove these as they form part of a landmark building.

    I'm more outraged at the €7500 per night Princess Grace Suite than I am about these statues representing slavery. I'd love to spend a night there to see what it's like.
    https://forumofgames.com/index.php

    >>> Staying Alive <<<



  • #28
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    thebaz wrote: »
    as a Supporter of Black Lives Matter - I think this FAKE virtue signalling by the Shelbournbe hotel and the Marriot hotel group trying to be so hip and woke - when in reality they only care for bottom line profit and feeding and caring for the Super rich - The Marriot hotel group Marketing team planned this so the gullible public will think how great they are - well I'm not fooled.


    Yes they should not want to run a profitable business. I think they should all just close down. Staff can go on welfare.

    But who will pay for welfare via income tax if all of the businesses who only operate for profit close?


  • #29
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,590 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    When all aspects of BLM anger are eventually removed, no one will know anything about slavery unless they read about it in a book if they are that bothered. Some things should remain on view as a lesson to the bewildered.

    Like what, leaving Nazi statues in the Berlin city center?

    There’s a proper place for history and it’s not always in positions of honor.


  • #30
    Yyhhuuu
    Registered Users Posts: 798 ✭✭✭Yyhhuuu


    JupiterKid wrote: »
    So the iconic and historic Shelbourne Hotel on St Stephens Green in Dublin, considered the “Grand Dame” of Irish hotels, has controversially taken down the four metal statues that adorned its front entrance - as the company who now owns the hotel believes that in the current “Black Lives Matter” climate that it would be completely inappropriate to keep the 153 year old statues.

    Architectural historians and conservationists including the Irish Georgian Society are up in arms over this move. Some have asked where does all this virtue signaling end? Demolish all the 18th and 19th Century buildings built on the possible profits from the slave trade?

    What are the views of posters here on this apparent storm in a teacup?


    Planning permission is most certainly required to remove any part of the protected structure.

    Please lodge a complaint to Dublin city council's planning enforcement section. E mail/ postal address:

    The Enforcement Section
    Planning Department
    Civic Offices
    Block 4, Floor 2
    Wood Quay
    Dublin 8



    Email: planningenforcement@dublincity.ie

    Tel: (01) 222 2147


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  • #31
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 16,349 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    ****


    They're entitled to remove the statues as they are private property.

    Whatever the reasoning may be.

    Personally I would have thought it's a reasonable thing to do when consideration is given to the amount of statues being vandalized and/or removed these days. No business owner wants destruction of their property, and if these statues had been removed by protestors there is reasonable likelihood that other damage may have been done to the hotel.

    While it may seem like virtue signalling on the surface, it's most likely a move to avoid vandalism, any criminal damage caused may have had a knock on effect on staff, so given that choice seeing the statues removed this way is preferable.

    Glazers Out!



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