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The annual ASTI Easter strike threat

  • 05-04-2021 7:31am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭


    It was looking like the ASTI would not have their annual teacher strike ballot this Easter...

    Then they found a topic.

    They want healthy 25 year old teaching staff to be vaccinated before those at far far higher risk.


    Easter just wouldn't be Easter without the annual strike threat by exceptionally well paid ASTI teachers.


    Someday some government minister will have the guts to pull them down several pegs


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Kivaro


    Unions should have no say on how a country responds to a deadly worldwide pandemic. However, this is Ireland, and unions seem to rule the roost here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,214 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Darc19 wrote: »
    It was looking like the ASTI would not have their annual teacher strike ballot this Easter...

    Then they found a topic.

    They want healthy 25 year old teaching staff to be vaccinated before those at far far higher risk.


    Easter just wouldn't be Easter without the annual strike threat by exceptionally well paid ASTI teachers.


    Someday some government minister will have the guts to pull them down several pegs

    You'll be a long time waiting


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭Finty Lemon


    Supermarket workers 'deserve' the vaccine more than teachers. There for 8 hours a day taking s**te from those who won't wear a mask, or from those too lazy to move away to pack their own shopping in a designated area. No clue what the Covid status of the next spluttering customer is either.
    Weekends, Christmas late, Bank Holidays, the lot.

    The ASTI are showing us who they believe are the true 'privileged' people of the country.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Darc19 wrote: »
    It was looking like the ASTI would not have their annual teacher strike ballot this Easter...

    Then they found a topic.

    They want healthy 25 year old teaching staff to be vaccinated before those at far far higher risk.


    Easter just wouldn't be Easter without the annual strike threat by exceptionally well paid ASTI teachers.


    Someday some government minister will have the guts to pull them down several pegs

    Ah what’s new here. Teachers think they run this place!
    Dya know what, get them vaccinated to fluich, they’re never going back to their work otherwise!


  • Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    Darc19 wrote: »

    They want healthy 25 year old teaching staff to be vaccinated before those at far far higher risk.
    Its more to do with transmission than anything else. A secondary teacher might be interacting with 200 students a day, so 200 households. One teacher could a superspreader event. They could cause thousands of cases from a single day of working with covid.


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  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    Afaik the government promised to vaccinate teachers etc as a priority to get em.back working



    And promptly doubled back on that promise without consultation

    i couldnt fault em for being pissed off over this......be a fairly weak union,that wouldnt be willing to walk out,if its been double-crossed


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,468 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    We have shown that the schools can be shut for an extended period, so isn't it about time a minister for education called their bluff?

    🙈🙉🙊



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭Finty Lemon


    Afaik the government promised to vaccinate teachers etc as a priority to get em.back working



    And promptly doubled back on that promise without consultation

    i couldnt fault em for being pissed off over this......be a fairly weak union,that wouldnt be willing to walk out,if its been double-crossed

    The Gov made the decision based on the best epidemiological advice available. The ASTI want the government to put sectional political interests before science.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭Finty Lemon


    Afaik the government promised to vaccinate teachers etc as a priority to get em.back working



    And promptly doubled back on that promise without consultation

    i couldnt fault em for being pissed off over this......be a fairly weak union,that wouldnt be willing to walk out,if its been double-crossed

    Most teachers are getting on with their job.
    Teachers unions (the last refuge of teachers who don't want to teach) are making their members look bad.


  • Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    The Gov made the decision based on the best epidemiological advice available. The ASTI want the government to put sectional political interests before science.
    Not so sure about this. I thought the best practice in epidemiology was to inoculate individuals who live and work in conditions where disease is prevalent, and not according to risk of mortality given the unlikely event of infection

    Kingston Mills was on the radio this week saying that the only reason we are progressing down the age categories, is it's easier for the HSE to do. It isn't necessarily based on medical science.


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  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    The Gov made the decision based on the best epidemiological advice available. The ASTI want the government to put sectional political interests before science.

    I qs the science,which says those with high levels of social interactions (teacher,gaurds,shop workers etc),shouldnt be prioritised tbh

    I emailed dept asking for further clarification upon this and got no reply



    But nonetheless,the government promised x,y and z in negociations,and then promptly doubled back without consultation, (shades of boris johnson vs the eu here)

    seems to me,they have made their bed here and need accept responsibility for its outworkings


  • Registered Users Posts: 303 ✭✭.42.


    The Government should let them strike and continue with the age groups.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,153 ✭✭✭ratracer


    We have shown that the schools can be shut for an extended period, so isn't it about time a minister for education called their bluff?

    No thanks! Schools haven’t been closed, my kids have been doing an awful lot of online schooling since Christmas, and their teachers have put a lot of time into it. Schools on strike is a completely different situation, where no work at all would be done online. Kids need to be back in the classes. I don’t have a strong enough opinion on the teachers getting priority vaccines or not, but they have still been working ( at least in my kids school)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭Finty Lemon


    I qs the science,which says those with high levels of social interactions (teacher,gaurds,shop workers etc),shouldnt be prioritised tbh

    I emailed dept asking for further clarification upon this and got no reply



    But nonetheless,the government promised x,y and z in negociations,and then promptly doubled back without consultation, (shades of boris johnson vs the eu here)

    seems to me,they have made their bed here and need accept responsibility for its outworkings

    Perhaps you could take your query on the methodology adopted by the Govt to one of these people:

    Professor Andrew Pollard, Chair (University of Oxford)
    Professor Lim Wei Shen, Chair COVID-19 immunisation (Nottingham University Hospitals)
    Professor Anthony Harnden, Deputy Chair (University of Oxford)
    Dr Kevin Brown (Public Health England)
    Dr Rebecca Cordery (Public Health England)
    Dr Maggie Wearmouth (East Sussex Healthcare NHS Trust)
    Professor Matt Keeling (University of Warwick)
    Alison Lawrence (lay member)
    Professor Robert Read (Southampton General Hospital)
    Professor Anthony Scott (London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine)
    Professor Adam Finn (University of Bristol)
    Dr Fiona van der Klis (National Institute for Public Health and the Environment, Netherlands)
    Professor Maarten Postma (University of Groningen)
    Professor Simon Kroll (Imperial College London)
    Dr Martin Williams (University Hospitals Bristol)
    Professor Jeremy Brown (University College London Hospitals)

    Members of the JCVI who recommended an age based approach to vaccination in the UK, as the most efficient means of distribution at the population level, not the individual level.
    The population level supercedes sectional interests and is better for the whole in the long term. However it will appear counterintuitive to the less well-informed and therefore may present some political problems.
    Teachers unions were unhappy with the UK decision too.


  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    Members of the JCVI who recommended an age based approach to vaccination in the UK, as the most efficient means of distribution at the population level, not the individual level.
    The population level supercedes sectional interests and is better for the whole in the long term. However it will appear counterintuitive to the less well-informed and therefore may present some political problems.
    Teachers unions were unhappy with the UK decision too.
    The Gov made the decision based on the best epidemiological advice available. The ASTI want the government to put sectional political interests before science.


    You goys need to get yous story straight,is it the best epidemiologocal/scientific or most efficent method they going with??



    Im indifferent to whether teachers etc need prioiritisng,just im a functioning adult,who understands if yous promise someone x,y and z and then roll back without bothering to consultate them,its going to cause pushback


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭Finty Lemon


    You goys need to get yous story straight,is it the best epidemiologocal/scientific or most efficent method they going with??

    Its the same thing. The most efficient is the best at a population level. Hit the medically vulnerable first (easily defined) and the roll out based on age. Simple.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,658 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    Jesus, surely even the party of Bertie Ahern won’t subvert the best medical advice to keep the public sector on side! People will die unnecessarily if they do.


  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    You goys need to get yous story straight,is it the best epidemiologocal/scientific or most efficent method they going with??

    Its the same thing. The most efficient is the best at a population level. Hit the medically vulnerable first (easily defined) and the roll out based on age. Simple.






    It is the most efficent (state has made such a balls of it so far,170K plus missing/que skippers so far...its obvious they cant do it any other way)


    ....but its laughable to say its more scientific to do it this way,verus doing those with higher levels of social interaction first......


    commonsense would say this to anyone....they cant and shouldnt claim two opposites simutaneously imo


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭Finty Lemon


    Jesus, surely even the party of Bertie Ahern won’t subvert the best medical advice to keep the public sector on side! People will die unnecessarily if they do.

    Did Northern Ireland implement an age based approach?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭Finty Lemon








    It is the most efficent (state has made such a balls of it so far,170K plus missing/que skippers so far...its obvious they cant do it any other way)


    ....but its laughable to say its more scientific to do it this way,verus doing those with higher levels of social interaction first......


    commonsense would say this to anyone....they cant.claim two opposites simutaneously imo

    Supermarket workers have more social interactions than teachers. Should they come first?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,198 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    We have shown that the schools can be shut for an extended period, so isn't it about time a minister for education called their bluff?

    The buildings have been closed. Not the schools.

    Do you know how strikes work?

    :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭Finty Lemon


    Petrol station attendants have more social interactions than supermarket workers. Should they come before them, who come before teachers?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭Finty Lemon


    Bus drivers have more interactions than petrol pump attendants, who have more than supermarket workers, who have more than teachers. Should they be first?


  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]



    Supermarket workers have more social interactions than teachers. Should they come first?

    i have no problem with this anyway


    Has the state promised their union this and rolled back without consultating.....and now is accusing said union of being anti-science

    Looks to me,the governemnt have qs to answer here and need apoligise to the unions....they were happy to critise british government for unilaterially tearing up brexit agreements ,while happy to do so here,deosnt seem.fair to.me.anyway


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,484 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Did Northern Ireland implement an age based approach?

    Yes.

    https://www.health-ni.gov.uk/sites/default/files/publications/health/covid-vacc-prog-update-plan.pdf

    Programme
    NI Phase 1
    NI Phase 2
    3. All those 75 years of age not already vaccinated (<62K)
    4. All those 70 years of age not already vaccinated (<81K) and extremely clinically vulnerable (95K) and Carers
    5. All those 65 years of age not already vaccinated (<90K)
    6. All individuals aged 16 years to 64 years with underlying health conditions which put them at higher
    NI Phase 3
    7. All those 60+ years of age not already vaccinated (<106K)
    8. All those 55+ years of age not already vaccinated (<125K)
    9. All those 50+ years of age not already vaccinated (<132K)
    NI Phase 4
    10. All those 40+ years of age not already vaccinated (<242k) 11. All those 30+ years of age not already vaccinated (<251k) 12. All those 18+ years of age not already vaccinated (<282k)
    NI Phase 5
    Autumn/ Winter booster programme 2021
    1. Older adults resident in a care home and care home workers (12k residents and 16K staff)
    2. All those 80 years of age and over (<72K) and health & social care (70K) and domiciliary care workers (<25K)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭Finty Lemon


    School bus drivers have less than city bus drivers, but more than regional bus drivers, who themselves have fewer interactions than train drivers, who have morevthan teachers in small schools but less than teachers in large schools. Put them 7th on the list. Or is it 5th?


  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    School bus drivers have less than city bus drivers, but more than regional bus drivers, who themselves have fewer interactions than train drivers, who have morevthan teachers in small schools but less than teachers in large schools. Put them 7th on the list. Or is it 5th?

    Lol.....rattled as fcuk


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭Finty Lemon



    i have no problem with this anyway


    Has the state promised their union this and rolled back without consultating.....and now is accusing said union of being anti-science

    Looks to me,the governemnt have qs to answer here and need apoligise to the unions....they were happy to critise british government for unilaterially tearing up brexit agreements ,while happy to do so here,deosnt seem.fair to.me.anyway

    Would that be all supermarket workers or just full-time?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,586 ✭✭✭joebloggs32


    Supermarket workers 'deserve' the vaccine more than teachers. There for 8 hours a day taking s**te from those who won't wear a mask, or from those too lazy to move away to pack their own shopping in a designated area. No clue what the Covid status of the next spluttering customer is either.
    Weekends, Christmas late, Bank Holidays, the lot.

    The ASTI are showing us who they believe are the true 'privileged' people of the country.

    And the supermarket workers were due to be vaccinated well ahead of teachers in the plan that just got ditched.

    Their unions need to highlight how the change of the roll out impacts them just as the teachers unions are doing for their members.

    As a teacher have to spend 1 hour at a time in a room that is 50 m² with up to 24 students, up to 6 times a day. My SNA colleagues have to often provide intimate care to some of our students. To overlook them is particularly galling.

    I love how the plan was only altered after all the pen pushers in the HSE were looked after whike still working from home.


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Supermarket workers 'deserve' the vaccine more than teachers. There for 8 hours a day taking s**te from those who won't wear a mask, or from those too lazy to move away to pack their own shopping in a designated area. No clue what the Covid status of the next spluttering customer is either.
    Weekends, Christmas late, Bank Holidays, the lot.

    The ASTI are showing us who they believe are the true 'privileged' people of the country.

    Your takeaway from this is that no occupation at greater risk deserves consideration.


    Mine would be that all occupations at greater risk deserve consideration

    Your takeaway from this is that the occupation with a strong union should get nothing while those in power can point to the occupation without a strong union

    My takeaway is that all occupations without a strong union should be pointing at the occupation with a strong union and demanding what they get

    No war but a class war, brothers


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