Boards.ie uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Click here to find out more x
Post Reply  
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
21-07-2020, 23:10   #1
spaceCreated
Registered User
 
spaceCreated's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 113
Economic implcactions of housing in Waterford

Starting this thread so posters can discuss the implications of housing, landlords and, renting, social housing to their hearts' content.
spaceCreated is offline  
Thanks from:
Advertisement
31-07-2020, 22:18   #2
Yellow_Fern
Registered User
 
Yellow_Fern's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 835
Social housing in Waterford discourages hardwork.
Yellow_Fern is offline  
31-07-2020, 22:26   #3
Wanderer78
Registered User
 
Wanderer78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 15,838
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow_Fern
Social housing in Waterford discourages hardwork.

Social housing is a critical need, as some are simply unable to gain access to the private market, is doesn't come down to hard work at all, with productivity levels at an all time high across most sectors, hard work has little or nothing to do with it. We now have a growing amount of younger generations, some well educated, also unable to get access to the private market, and this is ultimately down to high asset price inflation and low wage inflation, it's a common global problem with free market libertarianism or what's commonly called neoliberalism
Wanderer78 is offline  
Thanks from:
01-08-2020, 09:07   #4
Yellow_Fern
Registered User
 
Yellow_Fern's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 835
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderer78 View Post
Social housing is a critical need, as some are simply unable to gain access to the private market, is doesn't come down to hard work at all, with productivity levels at an all time high across most sectors, hard work has little or nothing to do with it. We now have a growing amount of younger generations, some well educated, also unable to get access to the private market, and this is ultimately down to high asset price inflation and low wage inflation, it's a common global problem with free market libertarianism or what's commonly called neoliberalism
Plenty of my generation have spent their 20s and many 30s gettings degrees, working 50 or 60 hour weeks, going abroad to get ahead to provide. Mostly we cant even buy and if we rent, we have to pay over a huge percent of our salaries, a far higher chunk than most social housing people who pay something like 40 euro a week and they are not even evicted if they don't pay.

The council is able to offer to social houses because they are bought from builders and actually the state is largest buyer of housing in the country which is pushing up prices for people like me who work. The state is the real cucoo fund.

Neoliberalism is about trade liberalism. Nothing to do with asset price inflation. You can blame the ECB and the Fed for that with their Keynesian bull. While wage stagnation is driven by automation and insane wates of immigration but we are forbidden from talking about that too. We dont have anything like a free market.
Yellow_Fern is offline  
(3) thanks from:
01-08-2020, 09:09   #5
listermint
Registered User
 
listermint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 24,628
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow_Fern View Post
Plenty of my generation have spent their 20s and many 30s gettings degrees, working 50 or 60 hour weeks, going abroad to get ahead to provide. Mostly we cant even buy and if we rent, we have to pay over a huge percent of our salaries, a far higher chunk than most social housing people who pay something like 40 euro a week and they even evicted if they dont pay.

The council is able to offer to social houses because they are bought from builders and actually the state is largest buyer of housing in the country which is pushing up prices for people like me who work. The state is the real cucoo fund.

Neoliberalism is about trade liberalism. Nothing to do with asset price inflation. You can blame the ECB and the Fed for that with their Keynesian bull. While wage stagnation is driven by automation and insane wates of immigration but we are forbidden from talking about that too. We dont have anything like a free market.
Your exactly the person social housing was designed for . Working not able to afford their own home yet and at a stage where a leg up would set them on the path to getting their own home.


The fact you don't understand that and went into isms demonstrates quite clearly you aren't nature enough to look after a home.
listermint is offline  
Advertisement
01-08-2020, 09:17   #6
McGaggs
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,112
Quote:
Originally Posted by listermint View Post
Your exactly the person social housing was designed for . Working not able to afford their own home yet and at a stage where a leg up would set them on the path to getting their own home.


The fact you don't understand that and went into isms demonstrates quite clearly you aren't nature enough to look after a home.
This person earns too much to get social housing. The people on the file for there entire lives and in social housing often have more disposable income them the hard working young people because it all goes in rent.
McGaggs is offline  
01-08-2020, 09:22   #7
listermint
Registered User
 
listermint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 24,628
Quote:
Originally Posted by McGaggs View Post
This person earns too much to get social housing. The people on the file for there entire lives and in social housing often have more disposable income them the hard working young people because it all goes in rent.
You their accountant ?


This argument gets trotted out alot. It's not true. Yes there are thresholds but the the supports to get people social or onto the housing ladder are good. People who are against social housing are morons. There I said it.


I grew up in my younger days in a social house. My parents were not get earning enough both working but went on to get better paying jobs. Got together a deposit and bought their own home. This is exactly what social housing is designed for.

I'm firmly against selling off social housing and firmly for yearly means testing , guidance and financial advise for people in social housing.
listermint is offline  
(2) thanks from:
01-08-2020, 09:24   #8
McGaggs
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,112
Quote:
Originally Posted by listermint View Post
You their accountant ?


This argument gets trotted out alot. It's not true. Yes there are thresholds but the the supports to get people social or onto the housing ladder are good. People who are against social housing are morons. There I said it.


I grew up in my younger days in a social house. My parents were not get earning enough both working but went on to get better paying jobs. Got together a deposit and bought their own home. This is exactly what social housing is designed for.

I'm firmly against selling off social housing and firmly for yearly means testing , guidance and financial advise for people in social housing.
I'm not against social.housing, and how you describe it is exactly how it works, but the thresholds are often too low when compared to open market rents for a lot of people.
McGaggs is offline  
01-08-2020, 09:32   #9
Yellow_Fern
Registered User
 
Yellow_Fern's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 835
Quote:
Originally Posted by listermint View Post
Your exactly the person social housing was designed for . Working not able to afford their own home yet and at a stage where a leg up would set them on the path to getting their own home.


The fact you don't understand that and went into isms demonstrates quite clearly you aren't nature enough to look after a home.
Assuming I met the income rates, Id have to have kids to one. They dont house single working people. Dont insult me. I didnt insult you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by listermint View Post
I grew up in my younger days in a social house. My parents were not get earning enough both working but went on to get better paying jobs. Got together a deposit and bought their own home. This is exactly what social housing is designed for.

I'm firmly against selling off social housing and firmly for yearly means testing , guidance and financial advise for people in social housing.
Just because you grew up in social housing dosn't mean its the best system. Very few people see social housing as a transitional stage in their lives now. The situation is not as bad in Waterford as in Dublin where you have 600,000 luxury flats handed out as social housing. Imagine how unfair it is on the neighbours who made enormous sacrifices to live in those flats.
Yellow_Fern is offline  
Advertisement
01-08-2020, 09:41   #10
azimuth17
Registered User
 
azimuth17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 374
I am sure that you have all seen this.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-...tion-1.3852436
azimuth17 is offline  
Thanks from:
01-08-2020, 09:55   #11
Wanderer78
Registered User
 
Wanderer78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 15,838
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow_Fern
Plenty of my generation have spent their 20s and many 30s gettings degrees, working 50 or 60 hour weeks, going abroad to get ahead to provide. Mostly we cant even buy and if we rent, we have to pay over a huge percent of our salaries, a far higher chunk than most social housing people who pay something like 40 euro a week and they are not even evicted if they don't pay.
Funnily enough, if you're heavily indebted, or living in rented accommodation, you ll actually find more of your income actually goes towards the so called 'rentier class ' than alternative classes such as the 'welfare class', the main offenders here would be the fire sectors (finance, insurance, and real estate), who's main aim is to cause continual asset price inflation, because we all know, the wealth trickles down, particularly when the tide comes in!

Comparing generations doesn't work here, as we now live in a much different world compared to previous generations, it is why younger generations in particular are voting radically, hence election outcomes such as trump, brexit, rise of the right and even our own recent election outcome.

Younger generations are getting stuck in the rental sector, some are even getting stuck in the family home longer than they want to be, and some are finding themselves having to move back into the family home, particularly when they run out of options, and some of these aren't going home alone! This is occurring because of factors out of their control, as mentioned previously, you ll find the influx of foreigners and the welfare class have very little to do with these outcomes, even though they do influence them. There's plenty of evidence to support, younger generations are potentially working harder now than ever before, trying to increase their housing and accommodation securities

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow_Fern
The council is able to offer to social houses because they are bought from builders and actually the state is largest buyer of housing in the country which is pushing up prices for people like me who work. The state is the real cucoo fund.
You ll actually find the biggest cause of house price inflation is mostly to do with the availability of credit, the more credit that is available, the higher the price of houses will be. this credit is in fact created by private sector financial institutions, to use your language, private sector financial institutions are the ultimate 'cucoo fund', as they can more or less create as much credit as they want.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow_Fern
Neoliberalism is about trade liberalism. Nothing to do with asset price inflation. You can blame the ECB and the Fed for that with their Keynesian bull. While wage stagnation is driven by automation and insane wates of immigration but we are forbidden from talking about that too. We dont have anything like a free market.
Neoliberalism is a complex beast, I personally think it could be the single most dangerous thing mankind has ever created, not only have critical financial institutions mentioned above played their part in this mess, we ve decided it's best to leave the potential bigger part of the problem, private sector financial institutions, almost completely off the hook, this probably won't end well for us all, including for the wealthy.

I think Mr. Greenspan summed it up well, 'increasing worker insecurities is good for the economy', I ll let that sink in for a moment!


There's no such thing as a free market anywhere on this planet, all markets have some sort of rules and regulations attached to them, and some sort of political governance, I do sometimes wonder, do humans actually want democracy or not, by reducing political integration into these markets, ultimately means de-democratising your society
Wanderer78 is offline  
(3) thanks from:
01-08-2020, 09:57   #12
Wanderer78
Registered User
 
Wanderer78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 15,838
Quote:
Originally Posted by azimuth17
I am sure that you have all seen this.

I'm hearing great things about public housing and coop housing, I'm currently living in a coop built house
Wanderer78 is offline  
01-08-2020, 23:11   #13
Yellow_Fern
Registered User
 
Yellow_Fern's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 835
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderer78 View Post
Funnily enough, if you're heavily indebted, or living in rented accommodation, you ll actually find more of your income actually goes towards the so called 'rentier class ' than alternative classes such as the 'welfare class', the main offenders here would be the fire sectors (finance, insurance, and real estate), who's main aim is to cause continual asset price inflation, because we all know, the wealth trickles down, particularly when the tide comes in!
I am not arguing that people in social housing receive most of the what is taken from middle but I would argue an unfair amount is given to them.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderer78 View Post
You ll actually find the biggest cause of house price inflation is mostly to do with the availability of credit, the more credit that is available, the higher the price of houses will be. this credit is in fact created by private sector financial institutions, to use your language, private sector financial institutions are the ultimate 'cucoo fund', as they can more or less create as much credit as they want.
I dont know why you say this. The Irish banks are stagnating. Dying hulks really.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderer78 View Post
Younger generations are getting stuck in the rental sector, some are even getting stuck in the family home longer than they want to be, and some are finding themselves having to move back into the family home, particularly when they run out of options, and some of these aren't going home alone! This is occurring because of factors out of their control, as mentioned previously, you ll find the influx of foreigners and the welfare class have very little to do with these outcomes, even though they do influence them. There's plenty of evidence to support, younger generations are potentially working harder now than ever before, trying to increase their housing and accommodation securities
There is a lot of social factors. Far more under 24s once lived with their parents and we now have far more single parents and divorcees and this all impacts the crisis further.

Neoliberalism is great. It is the reason we have a booming and efficient freight into Ireland, cheap flights and Ryanair, and top notch private hospitals like the Whitfield that were able to bail us all out during Covid. Also cheap buses. Neoliberalism is a wonderful thing.
Yellow_Fern is offline  
02-08-2020, 11:05   #14
Stopitwillya
Registered User
 
Stopitwillya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 486
We have far too many council housing in Waterford city. Ghettos like larchville, lisduggan, ballybeg, carrickpherish and many others have been allowed to develop and a culture of not having to better yourself as it might prevent you from getting a council house has been created. This is far better things our council could be doing with taxpayers money than waisting it on council houses.
Some of us have had to work bloody hard, save like mad and make huge sacrifices to get to buy our houses. Should be the same for everyone.
Stopitwillya is offline  
Yesterday, 17:55   #15
Dum_Dum
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stopitwillya View Post
We have far too many council housing in Waterford city. Ghettos like larchville, lisduggan, ballybeg, carrickpherish and many others have been allowed to develop and a culture of not having to better yourself as it might prevent you from getting a council house has been created. This is far better things our council could be doing with taxpayers money than waisting it on council houses.
Some of us have had to work bloody hard, save like mad and make huge sacrifices to get to buy our houses. Should be the same for everyone.

Plenty of people work hard but are poorly paid.


Just because some people have overpaid shouldn't mean you wish it upon others. Cheap housing is the foundation of prosperity e.g. Singapore.



I'd favour a behaviour based system for public housing. For bad neighbours and those with criminal records automatic eviction and lifetime bans.
Dum_Dum is offline  
Post Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Remove Text Formatting
Bold
Italic
Underline

Insert Image
Wrap [QUOTE] tags around selected text
 
Decrease Size
Increase Size
Please sign up or log in to join the discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Share Tweet