"Why I did not report my rapist"

LightlyGo · 24-02-2017 12:31am #1

Has anyone read Rosemary McCabes blog post "Why I did not report my rapist?" ?
It's been widely shared on facebook today and other platforms so I'm assuming she's ok with it being discussed.
It feels to me like a widening of the definition of rape to include sex that she did not refuse for politeness sake as opposed to the more traditional notion of rape as sex she was too afraid or too intimidated to refuse.

As a woman I find it really troubling, not only the content but the comments in response on twitter and on the article where scores of women almost universally respond with tears and praise for her bravery in sharing the story and an "it happened to me too". There's no acknowledgement of nuance in the situation or even somewhat glaring issues with defining it as an assault. It's aim is to highlight sexual abuse and assault but it feels like it's actually devaluing it to something relatively banal and easily preventable. This new consensus would damage men, women but very much so victims of abuse too.

To me the story was a cautionary tale of the importance of taking responsibility for yourself and your decisions, we all make mistakes after all particularly when we are young, but it is important we learn the right lesson from them. I haven't had sex when I didn't want to but I've made mistakes when I was too immature to cope with a relationship, I've even gone out with someone I wasn't into lest I hurt his feelings by rejecting him. I look back now though and see that was my problem, I was the only one responsible for not taking care of me regardless of my motivation. I find that idea empowering, it means I can now change my behaviour and be safer even if I'd rather never have the awkwardness of a "sorry I don't feel that way about you" chat.

I was wondering if the responses on facebook and twitter etc are representative of the general opinion on this so I'm asking you all for your opinions.

This is the story she posted of her rape :

He and I had known each other a few weeks – we were in college together – and had kissed a handful of times. The weekend before, after a drunken night in a neighbouring apartment playing cards, we had ended up in bed together. Afterwards, he told me he’d been hoping this would happen – he really wanted to cuddle and I felt really uncomfortable.

I had recently broken up with my boyfriend and, I think, in that moment I realised that he was a rebound. I liked him a lot, but I didn’t really fancy him, and I most definitely didn’t want to go out with him. I was kind of disgusted with myself – I felt like the evil men I read about in women’s magazines, who slept with women and then, once they’d “got what they wanted”, realised they weren’t that into them anyway. I felt guilty.

The following week, we found ourselves socialising with a group of friends in the local. I spent the night avoiding him; I was afraid he’d try to kiss me again, and I was too much of a coward to be upfront and tell him I wasn’t into him.

Later, back in our apartment, he and a few of his friends came back for more drinks. We all sat on our couch, drinking from glass bottles (remember when it was cool to drink those tiny bottles of French beer?). When it came time to go to bed – I was always one of the first to fold, which may be part of why I don’t really drink anymore – he followed me into my room and asked if he could kiss me. I was in my pyjamas.

Once again, I was too ashamed – of my own meanness to say no. I remember thinking, he’ll get the message eventually. We kissed. He tried to undress me. I said no. He tried again – my top came off. I told him I didn’t want to have sex. We kissed some more. He tried to take off my bottoms. I said no.

He wasn’t pushy – at least not physically – but he was stubborn. After several “no”s, I remember thinking, ‘it would just be easier to let him do it.’ So I stopped saying no, and I lay there, and he had sex with me. At no point did I shove him away, or scream at him, or tell him to get out of my room. (I wish I had.) I didn’t behave like a rape victim should behave.

http://rosemarymaccabe.com/i-didnt-report-my-rapist/

Neyite · 24-02-2017 12:44am

I find it troubling that you feel that a woman who says no several times and is ignored has not been sexually assaulted.

She said no. At that point, there is NO excuse for continuing to have sex with your partner. None.

LightlyGo · 24-02-2017 1:00am

Neyite wrote: »

I find it troubling that you feel that a woman who says no several times and is ignored has not been sexually assaulted.

She said no. At that point, there is NO excuse for continuing to have sex with your partner. None.

She said no to having her top taken off but continued kissing after that was done, presumably similar happened the rest of the way as she says he was in no way physically forceful. She mentions at no time that she was too afraid to ask him to leave, just that she was uncomfortable with rejecting him. To me that's different to feeling forced.
If she said she felt intimidated, felt afraid, felt it progressed too quickly beyond a point she was comfortable with I think it would change the complexion of the story completely. Instead she said decided it was easier to let him go ahead than to say a forceful "no!" and back it up with asking him to leave. That's a decision to go have sex.

I'm sure she felt upset and sorry it happened and that it's an awful feeling but there was a choice several steps through the matter to stop and she did not to chose to do so.

I don't think she should bare blame or shame for the incident, but it would be healthier in my opinion to acknowledge some responsibility. A word like rapist should not be bandied about. It's a life changing accusation. Using it in a situation where you decide to have sex, even very half heartedly is unfair and it's a dangerous development for our whole society if it becomes acceptable in my opinion.

One eyed Jack · 24-02-2017 1:07am

LightlyGo wrote: »

it's a dangerous development for our whole society if it becomes acceptable in my opinion.

It's a dangerous development for our society when people are suggesting that they should bear any responsibility for the behaviour of another person who, after being told "No" several times, still continued with their behaviour. "No", means no. It's something we instill in children, so there's no excuse for any misunderstanding when it comes to adults. They know what "No" means.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 · 24-02-2017 1:07am

She's an attention craving internet parasite.

mzungu · 24-02-2017 1:10am

LightlyGo wrote: »

She said no to having her top taken off but continued kissing after that was done, presumably similar happened the rest of the way as she says he was in no way physically forceful. She mentions at no time that she was too afraid to ask him to leave, just that she was uncomfortable with rejecting him. To me that's different to feeling forced.
If she said she felt intimidated, felt afraid, felt it progressed too quickly beyond a point she was comfortable with I think it would change the complexion of the story completely. Instead she said decided it was easier to let him go ahead than to say a forceful "no!" and back it up with asking him to leave. That's a decision to go have sex.

I'm sure she felt upset and sorry it happened and that it's an awful feeling but there was a choice several steps through the matter to stop and she did not to chose to do so.

I don't think she should bare blame or shame for the incident, but it would be healthier in my opinion to acknowledge some responsibility. A word like rapist should not be bandied about. It's a life changing accusation. Using it in a situation where you decide to have sex, even very half heartedly is unfair and it's a dangerous development for our whole society if it becomes acceptable in my opinion.

In the part you quoted from the article it says that he was "stubborn" and that he did not respond to repeated requests to stop. This to me would signify he knew exactly what he was doing. Once a "no" is requested, then things should stop. It doesn't matter if it is said quietly or screamed, once you hear it, then it's time to cease all activity. No ifs or buts about it.

milehip · 24-02-2017 1:14am

Oh this is gonna be interesting.

GritBiscuit · 24-02-2017 1:15am

...After several “no”s, I remember thinking, ‘it would just be easier to let him do it.’ So I stopped saying no, and I lay there, and he had sex with me.

Definition of common law rape:

A man commits rape if:

1 - He had sexual intercourse with a woman who at that time does not consent and

2 - He knows she is not consenting or he is reckless as to whether or not she is consenting

Repeatedly saying no is by definition an absence of consent....so this scenario is not so much "bandying around a word like rape" as perfectly describing it...

dotsman · 24-02-2017 1:23am

As politically incorrect as it is to say in today's "Rape Culture", there are actually different kind of "no's". There is a playful "no", a quiet "no", a token "no" and an actual "no". And quite often, however the speaker intends it to mean, it is not always interpreted the same unless spoken very seriously/sternly etc.

She was in college at the time so I am assuming both were teenagers, maybe 20. As she states, "I don’t think that he would look back on what happened that night and think that he had raped me." And that is the crucial issue. By the sounds of things, neither of them comprehended exactly what was happening at the time.

When we look at teenagers, we see that we don't teach either gender how to communicate effectively regarding sex and sexual play. Teenage girls will often even confuse what they want/enjoy with how they "should" behave, fearing that they will cross the very fine lines between "normal", "frigid" and "slut". For the average person's first (and numerous subsequent) forays into playing with the other gender, it so often goes like this:

Boy and girl start kissing.
Boy moves hands down to ass.
Girl moves his hand back to her hips, perhaps saying "no".
Boy waits a few minutes and tries again.
Girl accepts this time and doesn't move his hands.
Boy moves hands up to her breasts.
Girl moves his hand back to her hips, perhaps saying "no".
Boy waits a few minutes and tries again.
Girl accepts this time and doesn't move his hands.
Boy moves hands under her top to breasts.
Girl moves his hand back to her hips, perhaps saying "no".
Boy waits a few minutes and tries again.
Girl accepts this time and doesn't move his hands.
Boy moves hands under her skirt/pants to groin.
Girl moves his hand back to her hips, perhaps saying "no".
Boy waits a few minutes and tries again.
Girl accepts this time and doesn't move his hands.

This basically continues until the girl stops the proceedings saying she "wants to go back to her friends". If the boy is getting bored, or feels like the girl may be a bit "frigid", he too might use this line.

Both of them got "the shift/score" (whatever slang applicable) and are happy with the evening's proceedings. However, the boy heard "no" several times, yet everything actually turned out OK. What does that teach him? The girl is expected to always put up a token resistance (or else she is "too easy"), but allow on the second (or third) attempt (otherwise she is frigid), with a bailout of returning to her friends if she is not comfortable. What does that teach either the boy or the girl in relation to communication and consent. Under no circumstances is the girl allowed initiate proceedings or take control (or else she is a "slut"). What does that teach the girl in relation to controlling or (god forbid!) exploring her own sexual gratification.

And it is the hangover of this childhood teaching that I see going on in the blog post. That both were simply too immature and inexperienced to deal with the situation. There was no maliciousness or intent on his part, he simply innocently misread the situation.

As for her feelings afterwards, it is wrong to blame him. I would argue that her lack of maturity/experience and the social BS that accompanies women's sexuality were the cause of whatever humiliation and shame she felt. She had no reason to feel these things, but they came from a lack of awareness mixed with social oppression ( ie the "she should be ashamed of herself for having sex so freely").

Outlaw Pete · 24-02-2017 1:26am

Neyite wrote: »

I find it troubling that you feel that a woman who says no several times and is ignored has not been sexually assaulted.

She said no. At that point, there is NO excuse for continuing to have sex with your partner. None.

I've said 'No' to sex many times in relationships and then gave in, either because I wanted that person to be happy or they ended up turning me on. That kinda thing happens with adults.

Does the fact that I initially said 'No' many times mean I was raped? Of course not. There's a degree of responsibility in what happens to us when we allow someone to do whatever it is that they want to to us.

The only exception for me is if a person is being physically aggressive or emotionally abusive and the person 'giving in' is doing so merely for their own physical safety and I don't see any evidence of that being the case here:

"He wasn’t pushy – at least not physically"

She implies with the above I suppose that he may have been emotionally manipulative but she isn't all that clear about it and then adds that he asked should he leave afterwards, but that in and of itself doesn't tell us much and could merely have been because he seen from her body language that she wanted to be alone.

Hell, I remember being 19 and a girl giving me evil looks after sex and I left soon after as a result too. Was only three weeks later she told me she was annoyed cause I came too fast and she thought sex would be much different than it was (well, not with me it isn't). She was a virgin at the time and I hadn't known.

So, on the face of it I don't see anything to suggest this guy raped her. If she didn't want him having sex with her then she should have told him to get off her. I get that sometimes people can be paralyzed with fear, want to scream, but can't etc, but nothing of that nature seems to have gone on here. She knew him and other people were in the house. If ever she was in a position where she should have felt safe enough to express her wishes not to have sex then that was it.

The retelling of this story reminds me of the whole Ulrika Johnson / John Leslie debacle. Someone somewhere is going know who she is referring to. Lucky for him though that we live in a rape culture and so nobody will care.

Grayson · 24-02-2017 1:29am

LightlyGo wrote: »

She said no .

I thought I'd simplify your post by editing out the unnecessary stuff.

LightlyGo · 24-02-2017 1:30am

mzungu wrote: »

In the part you quoted from the article it says that he was "stubborn" and that he did not respond to repeated requests to stop. This to me would signify he knew exactly what he was doing. Once a "no" is requested, then things should stop. It doesn't matter if it is said quietly or screamed, once you hear it, then it's time to cease all activity. No ifs or buts about it.

I agree. However I think it's not as clear cut as that in all situations. In this instance I can see how he read mixed signals, she recognised she was giving mixed signals and the situation was certainly unfortunate and I'm sure upsetting. I guess for me if someone went to take my top off and I said no but it came off anyway a few minutes later I would not be continuing on kissing them for a while. I fully think he should have stopped but I think for her in her future relationships and for young women it's wise to also have in mind that if you mean no it has to be more than a word. If you're with someone you don't want to be with and they're not hearing no very early in the encounter you stop it. You protect yourself, you can't continue and say "no, but opps you did that and it's ok, I'll continue" etc .

Crucially though when it came to the sex she decided it was easier to let it happen than say look "no, please leave". She didn't say she was afraid to say no, or her head was spinning too much to gather herself or that he was forceful.

I just don't think the man deserves to be branded rapist over it.

Outlaw Pete · 24-02-2017 1:31am

Grayson wrote: »

I thought I'd simplify your post by editing out the unnecessary stuff.

Perhaps you missed this part:

I remember being disgusted at how I had just let him do that. What kind of person was I, who thought it was easier to just let someone have sex with me than to have the awkward “I don’t fancy you” conversation?

B.A._Baracus · 24-02-2017 1:33am

From her blog:

"I'm a blogger and social influencer (I know, I know...) based in Dublin, Ireland. I write about feminism, fashion, food, trends and style. Have an idea you think I'd be interested in? Get in touch!"

Social influencer huh? The bullsh*t is strong with this one :pac:

But I will stand up out of my chair, clap and say bravo and I actually mean that. You posted some sh*t to the internet that will divide opinion, get trending, put your name out there and advertise things through your website to make money. Truly bravo. It's easier than it looks to do such a feat. So well done Ms MacCabe.

ChikiChiki · 24-02-2017 1:42am

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

From her blog:

"I'm a blogger and social influencer (I know, I know...) based in Dublin, Ireland. I write about feminism, fashion, food, trends and style. Have an idea you think I'd be interested in? Get in touch!"

Social influencer huh? The bullsh*t is strong with this one :pac:

But I will stand up out of my chair, clap and say bravo and I actually mean that. You posted some sh*t to the internet that will divide opinion, get trending, put your name out there and advertise things through your website to make money. Truly bravo. It's easier than it looks to do such a feat. So well done Ms MacCabe.

Very clever in fairness to her. I wonder is she going to head to the Guards now and report the rape. If she's a beacon for all rape victims and a social influencer that must be her next step.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 · 24-02-2017 1:44am

Let me be the first to call bullshït on this. I await the internet backlash. If she does indeed feel she was raped then bloody report it. She says in the article she doesn't want to report him because it might "ruin his life" yeah sorry I'm not buying that story.

Two people drunk as fück at home after a heavy night go up to bed together and end up having sex even though one was reluctant happens ALL the time and guess what ITS NOT RAPE. It's called making a mistake. Jesus if it's rape I'd be serving back to back life sentences.

Absolute lol at her being a total whore for years after and it all being the man's fault. Of course it is luv. It's always the man's fault.

This is another example of the bad side of feminism.

davidwalsh12 · 24-02-2017 1:49am

B.A._Baracus · 24-02-2017 2:04am

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Very clever in fairness to her. I wonder is she going to head to the Guards now and report the rape. If she's a beacon for all rape victims that should be her next step.

Excellent point and that's the beauty of that blog post. It ends with saying she didn't report questioning would it have even got a conviction (another masterclass to spark debate) and that she could have ruined his life (the i'm a nice person angle) But by stating this it shuts down the obvious "report him now!" responses.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 · 24-02-2017 2:04am

I re-read the article and I'm even more triggered. All the comments from people down below saying how "brave" she is. Brave would have been reporting your rapist. You know if it was Infact rape... Jesus this must be infuriating for actual victims of rape.

21 year old student has drunken sex.
15 years later feminism is taking over the world.
"I was raped"

DEFTLEFTHAND · 24-02-2017 2:04am

I think this whole victim olympics phenomenon is just evil. Imagine trying to gain social value through the adoption of a false 'victim status'. I believe there is a correlation of such behaviour with narcissistic personality disorder.

Think of how insulting it is to actual victims of horrific crimes such as rape.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 · 24-02-2017 2:06am

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Excellent point and that's the beauty of that blog post. It ends with saying she didn't report questioning would it have even got a conviction (another masterclass to spark debate) and that she could have ruined his life (the i'm a nice person angle) But by stating this it shuts down the obvious "report him now!" responses.

Since when does there have to be any sort of conclusive proof to convict a man of rape. All women have to do these days is accuse a man of rape rightly or wrongly and his life is over.

Bambi985 · 24-02-2017 2:13am

with all this talk of 'rape culture' and #notallmen at the moment i think most of us could look back on our formative years and decide that yeah, we were raped because of that time we weren't really up for it but went along with it anyway or signalled an initial ambiguous discomfort that may or may not have been registered and ended up sleeping with someone anyway.

it's the most socially unacceptable thing to say these days, and there's certainly a double standard at play that affects male and female sexual behaviour and especially when you're young and inexperienced, can blur the lines between a playful "no" and a meaningful "no" as the poster above described.

in that moment she decided that having sex with him was easier than kicking him out of her room. i've made similar decisions and i'd constitute them as bad decisions and moments to cringe/laugh about rather than slandering somebody else with rape accusations.

LightlyGo · 24-02-2017 2:27am

The comments sections on both the post itself and on the facebook pages and twitter are concerning. There is almost universal praise and sympathy, I saw 2 replies that were not on message with everyone else. There were posts from several women and girls saying they'd had similar encounters that they'd never considered rape but now in light of reading the article have reevaluated them as rape.

If every situation where someone initially said no but then gave in after some kissing because they were aroused or wanted to please the other person was actually rape then there are a LOT of rape victims out there. People have consentual half hearted sex all the time. I think it does devalue the experience of people who undergo the awful and traumatic experience where their no to the act of sex was ignored or they were too frightened to say no or it happened without them being fully capable of deciding what they wanted. I fully recognise rape is often quiet, not ostensibly violent but I don't think it's a situation where you can recall actually deciding after a period of time kissing and undressing that you will have sex rather than ask someone to leave if there's no fear at all involved. If you do I'm sure you feel like something bad has happened afterwards but 50% of the responsibility is on you then.

LightlyGo · 24-02-2017 2:30am

Bambi985 wrote: »

with all this talk of 'rape culture' and #notallmen at the moment i think most of us could look back on our formative years and decide that yeah, we were raped because of that time we weren't really up for it but went along with it anyway or signalled an initial ambiguous discomfort that may or may not have been registered and ended up sleeping with someone anyway.

it's the most socially unacceptable thing to say these days, and there's certainly a double standard at play that affects male and female sexual behaviour and especially when you're young and inexperienced, can blur the lines between a playful "no" and a meaningful "no" as the poster above described.

in that moment she decided that having sex with him was easier than kicking him out of her room. i've made similar decisions and i'd constitute them as bad decisions and moments to cringe/laugh about rather than slandering somebody else with rape accusations.

I agree completely, that's what I wanted to say really. I think it's definitely more empowering to look back at those decisions in my own life as my bad than to reframe them as a violence perpetrated against me. It's a bit shocking to see so many women in comments sections elsewhere completely overlook that when responding to her.

Bambi985 · 24-02-2017 2:44am

LightlyGo wrote: »

I agree completely, that's what I wanted to say really. I think it's definitely more empowering to look back at those decisions in my own life as my bad than to reframe them as a violence perpetrated against me. It's a bit shocking to see so many women in comments sections elsewhere completely overlook that when responding to her.

Not just empowering but also a factual and accurate way of looking at things.

The worrying factor to me in this "rape culture" wave of feminism is that it's encouraging women to eschew their sense of personal responsibility to promote this rhetoric of victimhood.

Guy you've been avoiding knocks on the bedroom door looking for sex? Tell him you're going to bed and shut the door. You willingly get into the uncomfortable situation of kissing and he's still trying for sex? Stop kissing him and don't engage in intimate activity. Tell him to get out.

In this case the guy is responsible for misreading the signals and the woman is responsible for making a poor choice that she would come to regret. Regretting a sexual experience does not allow you to absolve yourself of the part you played in that experience happening in the first place. No matter how badly it affects your self esteem and influences your sexual behaviour in the years ahead.

RockSalto · 24-02-2017 2:57am

You didn't report it, because you weren't raped.

Now you want to feel better for having been a bit of tart (obviously in your own eyes I mean) in college.

Next.

Also, 'social influencer'? What an absolute fool.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 · 24-02-2017 3:07am

johnnythunders wrote: »

You didn't report it, because you weren't raped.

Now you want to feel better for having been a bit of tart (obviously in your own eyes I mean) in college.

Next.

Also, 'social influencer'? What an absolute fool.

I've never been so triggered in my whole life.

twowheelsonly · 24-02-2017 3:31am

Terrible analogy but.....

Once upon a time I had only two teabags left.

My friend John had none and I didn't want to give him one so I said no.

He asked me twice more so I gave it to him just to shut him up as I didn't want to listen to him.

John is a thief.

IMO Miss McCabe hasn't done anybody any favours with this.

Almost everybody, of both sexes, has at some stage found themselves in a similar situation at some stage in their lives. For a lot of people it's only in hindsight you might recognise that it wasn't the greatest idea ever but at the time you didn't feel abused, threatened or violated. I'd liken it more to an awkward or tricky situation that wasn't handled very well. Deciding years later that her friend is actually a rapist does a great dis-service to those genuine victims of rape, violent or otherwise.
I can only imagine that 'real' rape victims are reading this and asking if this one is for real and does she have any idea what it's really like to be raped or abused by force, either mental or physical.
BTW, I'd say the fella probably felt just as awkward as she did at the time. Fellas do actually feel that as well and, as someone mentioned earlier, the tone of the 'No' is vitally important - to both parties.

24-02-2017 4:45am

She's a pain in the hoop. Absolutely everything about her screams attention seeker, from causing trouble with other bloggers, putting photos of herself up crying, and throwing around "being bullied" when her stunts backfire on her, then trying to shout down anyone who isn't agreeing with them, and if that doesn't work then trashing them on her social media. She comes across really nastyvto be honest. She's perpetually the victim.

I mean, no means no, but if you don't want to have sex with someone then you don't give in for easiness sake. I've had sex when I really should have listened to my head telling me no, and I've had sex with people when they've been saying no it's a bad idea - but it ends up happening anyway

I mean having non consensual sex isn't something that people do just because it might be weird saying no. If you're that shy, you're probably not old enough to be having sex.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 · 24-02-2017 4:55am

I'm reading down through her facebook and I get triggered.

"One in four women you know have been raped" - her words.

Shes an absolute tool.

Calhoun · 24-02-2017 4:57am

Just waiting for this to be picked up by the liberal media and turned into another crusade, sexual consent classes for all!!!.

I wouldnt be so concerned about the comments on her blog or facebook, like most SJW's she has cultivated an echo chamber around her and those that are on it are persuaded by her rhetoric already.

Lets be clear i don't condone rape in any form but if you feel you have been raped then go and report it. Crap like this keeps going on i see allot of cat ladies going into the future.

"Why I did not report my rapist"

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