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01-05-2010, 04:28   #16
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
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MOLDERS is making a serious claim

Is your claim based on actual inspection of the badge?."I'd be just about certain that the Adams badge was constructed after 1924". If so post the proof in detail for us to see.
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01-05-2010, 09:41   #17
molders
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In reply to the previous thread I did examine the badge in question on one of the viewing days, but any serious collector of Irish Army insignia would know from the items photograph in the catalogue that the badge in question couldn't possibly be from early/mid 1922; its just too big. The bronze 1922 all ranks pattern cap badge is of a smaller diameter to the one sold in Adams. Also the badge in Adams was constructed from brass not bronze as stated in the catalogue. (Look at the rubbed high points of the badge in the photo) The pattern of badge in Adams first appeared in use in 1924 when the enamelled 1923 pattern officers cap badges were removed from service.
I've been wrong many times before on all sorts of things and I may well be wrong on this issue, but I am taking the item that sold in that auction on its own merits (without any story attached) and to me that particular item does not fit what one would expect from a Civil War era National Army officer's cap badge.
Relevant sources;
  • Various General Routine Orders November 1922 to January 1925
  • Order No.4 of September 30th 1924
  • Adjutant-General's memorandum no. 27 dated 8th November 1924
  • An Cosantoir May 1975
  • Badges, Medals, Insignia of the Irish Defence Forces Hogan 1987
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01-05-2010, 21:02   #18
molders
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I've just been looking at the Adams catalogue again and to further illustrate my point have a look at lot 533;
http://www.adams.ie/BidCat/detail.as...027&LotRef=533
It is a collection to a gentlemen who served in Fianna Eireann (i.e. a "boy" during the Independence period) to include his service medals (issued in 1941) and his Irish Army medals and badges. The cap badge in this lot is identical to the so called Collins cap badge despite being worn by its original owner at least 20 years after Collins had been killed.
As I've stated in my previous post I'm open to correction on this issue and I'll
apologize profusely if I'm wrong on this particular piece but it is my opinion as someone who has a long standing interest in Irish History that as a Nation we are continually being sold a pup by these auctions. There is no doubt that items of national importance are surfacing at these sales (having been attracted by the dollar/euro signs) but each item needs to be considered on its own merit. If we don't look at each item and ask the relevant questions about that particular item then how long will it be before Michael Collins's mobile phone comes up for sale?
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27-11-2019, 18:38   #19
Irlandese
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Can anyone tell me anything about a counterfeit Italian passport with michael collins photo that he is supposed to have used at least once for foreign travel possibly associated with arms buying ? It was said to have been exhibited among Collins memorabilia in the national museum many years ago.
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