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General sheep thread

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    #6302
    Young95
    Registered Users Posts: 545 ✭✭✭Young95


    Thinking of buying a vendeen ram as a terminal sire . Have any of youz used them before for breeding factory lambs ?


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    #6303
    Jjameson
    Registered Users Posts: 2,745 ✭✭✭Jjameson


    Young95 wrote: »
    Thinking of buying a vendeen ram as a terminal sire . Have any of youz used them before for breeding factory lambs ?

    Yes for 10 years and rate them very well. Woolly warm newborns with a good get up and go.


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    #6304
    wrangler
    Registered Users Posts: 11,057 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    Young95 wrote: »
    Thinking of buying a vendeen ram as a terminal sire . Have any of youz used them before for breeding factory lambs ?


    We had a 50 ewe pedigree vendeen flock here for years, and vendeen were the main sires on our 500 ewe flock including using them on 120 ewe lambs every year.
    They're born with wool and they're easy lambed.


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    #6305
    charolais0153
    Registered Users Posts: 6,225 ✭✭✭charolais0153


    Bought one last year no loss in them but cgarollais thrive that but better when they get going


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    #6306
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    Young95 wrote: »
    Thinking of buying a vendeen ram as a terminal sire . Have any of youz used them before for breeding factory lambs ?

    Have them for years, as said before hardy and warm lambs, good to rise and suck early. Two butchers locally used love buying them as they got great feedback on flavour from customers.


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    #6307
    Dickie10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,862 ✭✭✭Dickie10


    what lambs do you guys think have the best get up and suck? all things being equal, re. nutrition pre lambing . i never seen anything like Llyenns. puck u out of the way if your milking colostrum for them.


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    #6308
    charolais0153
    Registered Users Posts: 6,225 ✭✭✭charolais0153


    Dickie10 wrote: »
    what lambs do you guys think have the best get up and suck? all things being equal, re. nutrition pre lambing . i never seen anything like Llyenns. puck u out of the way if your milking colostrum for them.

    Anything with mountainy in them


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    #6309
    joe35
    Registered Users Posts: 446 ✭✭joe35


    What vaccination plan would people advise to a farmer who doesn't vaccinate. I was asked this the other day and looking into it a bit.

    I said inject everything straight away and any breeding stock again in 4 weeks. But then in-lamb ewes would need another shot pre lambing. Stock away on hill so not fees able for him to inject breeding ewes straight away. Maybe hold off till 8 weeks pre lambing and again 4 weeks pre lambing. Again ewes would be on hill. Wouldn't be coming down till 6 weeks pre lambing so would only have time for 1 vaccination.

    Vet said to him if all mature ewes where done with just 1 shot, 4 weeks pre lambing you would still get over 80% coverage. Hoggets and ewe lambs could get 2 shots pre lambing.

    What's peoples taughts on vaccinating. I see over 20% of farmers don't vaccinate


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    #6310
    wrangler
    Registered Users Posts: 11,057 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    joe35 wrote: »
    What vaccination plan would people advise to a farmer who doesn't vaccinate. I was asked this the other day and looking into it a bit.

    I said inject everything straight away and any breeding stock again in 4 weeks. But then in-lamb ewes would need another shot pre lambing. Stock away on hill so not fees able for him to inject breeding ewes straight away. Maybe hold off till 8 weeks pre lambing and again 4 weeks pre lambing. Again ewes would be on hill. Wouldn't be coming down till 6 weeks pre lambing so would only have time for 1 vaccination.

    Vet said to him if all mature ewes where done with just 1 shot, 4 weeks pre lambing you would still get over 80% coverage. Hoggets and ewe lambs could get 2 shots pre lambing.

    What's peoples taughts on vaccinating. I see over 20% of farmers don't vaccinate


    It depends on what level of losses you'll accept I suppose.
    I wouldn't agree with the vet, the first injection only primes the immunity, they only get about 10% cover, the second then boosts it to 100%.

    https://www.zoetis.com.au/livestock-solutions/sheep/maximise-lamb-productivity/best-practice-vaccination-for-lambs.aspx

    The graph on this demonstrates it well


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    #6311
    J.O. Farmer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,427 ✭✭✭J.O. Farmer


    wrangler wrote: »
    [/B]

    I wouldn't agree with the vet, the first injection only primes the immunity, they only get about 10% cover, the second then boosts it to 100%.

    https://www.zoetis.com.au/livestock-solutions/sheep/maximise-lamb-productivity/best-practice-vaccination-for-lambs.aspx

    The graph on this demonstrates it well

    Most losses are in younger sheep Older ewes may be more likely to have been exposed naturally and therefore the immune system is primed.

    Even the single dose will dramatically reduce losses in younger sheep versus no vaccination.


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    #6312
    kk.man
    Registered Users Posts: 3,425 ✭✭✭kk.man


    J.O. Farmer wrote: »
    Most losses are in younger sheep Older ewes may be more likely to have been exposed naturally and therefore the immune system is primed.

    Even the single dose will dramatically reduce losses in younger sheep versus no vaccination.
    I agree totally. I give lambs one shot of hep p plus while older sheep get zero. If I didn't do the one dose I would have losses.


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    #6313
    MayoAreMagic
    Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    kk.man wrote: »
    I agree totally. I give lambs one shot of hep p plus while older sheep get zero. If I didn't do the one dose I would have losses.

    Same as myself. Personally Id like to see the results of an independent study on the effectiveness of one shot vs two. Ive been giving 1 shot for donkeys years and my results dont mirror that study at all. Ive never lost a single one with it. Prior to doing 1 shot id lose at least 3 year. Doesnt add up.


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    #6314
    wrangler
    Registered Users Posts: 11,057 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    MayoAreMagic wrote: »
    Same as myself. Personally Id like to see the results of an independent study on the effectiveness of one shot vs two. Ive been giving 1 shot for donkeys years and my results dont mirror that study at all. Ive never lost a single one with it. Prior to doing 1 shot id lose at least 3 year. Doesnt add up.

    What's your stocking rate, risk would be higher in intensive situations, there is a scientific method of testing antibodies if you could find an independent research
    It's not an expensive vaccine, Older ewes are usually vaccinated to protect the lambs not the ewes. injecting lambs under three weeks of age is useless as they're not able to use it


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    #6315
    ganmo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,748 ✭✭✭ganmo


    MayoAreMagic wrote: »
    Same as myself. Personally Id like to see the results of an independent study on the effectiveness of one shot vs two. Ive been giving 1 shot for donkeys years and my results dont mirror that study at all. Ive never lost a single one with it. Prior to doing 1 shot id lose at least 3 year. Doesnt add up.

    That's never going to happen, the money needed to run a trial like that would be massive so teagasc or ucd are never gonna dig into their own pockets to do it and the vaccine companies wont release their own figures so why would they fund anything that would contradict what they've been preaching.

    If we're running low on vaccine doses the priority is ewes going in lamb, then dry ewes, then rams then hoggets.


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    #6316
    J.O. Farmer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,427 ✭✭✭J.O. Farmer


    wrangler wrote: »
    What's your stocking rate, risk would be higher in intensive situations, there is a scientific method of testing antibodies if you could find an independent research

    A study testing antibodies might be of some interest from a purely scientific point of view as to why older sheep appear less susceptible. I suspect any trials done will have been done with lambs. These will inevitably show more antibodies after the second shot.

    A study for the benefit of the second shot reducing mortality would need large studies with groups getting 2 shots, 1 shot and no shot and tracking their mortality. It's not a study I think has ever been or will be done.

    A study tracking mortality would need to be similar to the phase 3 covid trials in scale.


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    #6317
    wrangler
    Registered Users Posts: 11,057 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    J.O. Farmer wrote: »
    A study testing antibodies might be of some interest from a purely scientific point of view as to why older sheep appear less susceptible. I suspect any trials done will have been done with lambs. These will inevitably show more antibodies after the second shot.

    A study for the benefit of the second shot reducing mortality would need large studies with groups getting 2 shots, 1 shot and no shot and tracking their mortality. It's not a study I think has ever been or will be done.

    A study tracking mortality would need to be similar to the phase 3 covid trials in scale.

    I always try to reduce risk,
    With something as cheap as heptavac, it's a no brainer not to be doing it, when there was 8 or 900 lambs here we'd wait for the first or second case before vaccinating and while one shot would cover them for a while we would be losing them after two or thee months, I'd agree with the graph in that the first shot would lose effect. it was depending on when they got the first injection as to whether we'd give the second one.
    With only 120 lambs now we just do them now at ten weeks and then at fourteen, can't be bothered messing


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    #6318
    Westernrock
    Registered Users Posts: 283 ✭✭Westernrock


    I have data somewhere from a lab in the UK that was doing post mortem in a knackery. All retrospective so may not be 100% reliable but it supported the idea that the single shot would wear off. So basically anything that they confirmed died from clostridial diseases had got either no shots or only one shot More than 6 weeks previous. Pasturella cover is harder to pin down in that they were getting some even in lambs that farmers claimed had received 2shots, I think again it was most likely to have losses if only had no shot or one shot though.


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    #6319
    Siamsa Sessions
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,627 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    Lots of variables so I’d be inclined to go with whatever works for you, on your ground, with your animals, and the time you have available

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



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    #6320
    joe35
    Registered Users Posts: 446 ✭✭joe35


    Very impressed with the different points brought up, with all relative in there own way.

    Like most things with farming its not one size fits all. With the extra grass available this year it would probably be advisable to take stock down early and give them 2 shots.

    But if he wants to go with 1 shot it's still more cover than he has. Thanks


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    #6321
    Ard_MC
    Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭Ard_MC


    Anyone at the texel sale today? Looking at fb they looked a good trade.


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    #6322
    stantheman1979
    Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭stantheman1979


    As wrangler says it’s a no brainier for the price of it imo. I’ve had experience with all scenarios in the past as we have large numbers of sheep in different locations and haven’t got around to doing a certain batch or said we’ll take a chance with them. I’ve found that one shot only will wear off in lambs at 10-12 weeks. I’ve lost count of the amount of times I’ve found a nice 30 kg+ lamb dead in the morning for no apparent reason. Is frustrating let me tell you!!!! So all ewes get a shot 4weeks before lambing. Lambs get a shot at 7-8 weeks another at 12 weeks and inlamb ewe hoggs get a 3rd before lambing. Why take the chance a dead sheep will buy a lot of vaccine


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    #6323
    MayoAreMagic
    Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    wrangler wrote: »
    What's your stocking rate, risk would be higher in intensive situations, there is a scientific method of testing antibodies if you could find an independent research
    It's not an expensive vaccine, Older ewes are usually vaccinated to protect the lambs not the ewes. injecting lambs under three weeks of age is useless as they're not able to use it

    I farm commonages so the stocking rate isnt intensive. However, i still lost 3 in 100 consistently before the 1 shot, and lost 0 consistently after giving 1 shot. There is something to it.
    I have also finish 100 odd lambs in an intensive system. This is outside in winter. I give 1 shot and am yet to have losses. Maybe it is something to do with breeds or the timing of the injection.


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    #6324
    MayoAreMagic
    Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    wrangler wrote: »
    I always try to reduce risk,
    With something as cheap as heptavac, it's a no brainer not to be doing it, when there was 8 or 900 lambs here we'd wait for the first or second case before vaccinating and while one shot would cover them for a while we would be losing them after two or thee months, I'd agree with the graph in that the first shot would lose effect. it was depending on when they got the first injection as to whether we'd give the second one.
    With only 120 lambs now we just do them now at ten weeks and then at fourteen, can't be bothered messing

    That is kinda the marketing ploy at play though, isnt it? Is it reducing risk or doubling cost and labour unnecessarily? Depends on what you believe, right? Their graph gets people to believe - which is basically them writing their own reviews.

    I accept that the booster does in fact boost the shot. I dont believe the graph is accurate. In a pure numbers sense, it simply doesnt match the figures they are peddling.


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    #6325
    wrangler
    Registered Users Posts: 11,057 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    MayoAreMagic wrote: »
    That is kinda the marketing ploy at play though, isnt it? Is it reducing risk or doubling cost and labour unnecessarily? Depends on what you believe, right? Their graph gets people to believe - which is basically them writing their own reviews.

    I accept that the booster does in fact boost the shot. I dont believe the graph is accurate. In a pure numbers sense, it simply doesnt match the figures they are peddling.

    That graph was just convenient, there's similar posted by independent research if you look for it.
    I'm at the stage now where the loss of money doesn't worry me, but the thought that I'd neglected them does bother me when I find one dead, especially as they're usually 35kg +
    Even when we had 500+ ewes we'd never let lameness get chronic so they'd be in the yard regularily so extra work of vaccinating wouldn't be a problem


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    #6326
    Jd310
    Registered Users Posts: 59 ✭✭Jd310


    Any breeding sales on a Friday in the midlands to south east direction?


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    #6327
    DJ98
    Registered Users Posts: 1,315 ✭✭✭DJ98


    Couple of question's relating to farming commonage.
    1. When starting out how do you know what area to put your sheep?
    2. How do you keep your sheep in that area once you stop feeding meal?


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    #6328
    razor8
    Registered Users Posts: 2,317 ✭✭✭razor8


    Jd310 wrote: »
    Any breeding sales on a Friday in the midlands to south east direction?

    Here’s on for you this Friday evening

    https://m.facebook.com/carrickprolificewelambbreeders/


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    #6329
    ganmo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,748 ✭✭✭ganmo


    DJ98 wrote: »
    Couple of question's relating to farming commonage.
    1. When starting out how do you know what area to put your sheep?
    2. How do you keep your sheep in that area once you stop feeding meal?

    from what Ive garnered about commonages, no 2 are the same so the best people to answer your questions are other people on the commonage


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    #6330
    Mac Taylor
    Registered Users Posts: 1,747 ✭✭✭Mac Taylor


    Mac Taylor wrote: »
    Hi all, what ram would lads put in Suffolk x ewe hoggets? I was thinking a Charolais or Texel? There black faced so don’t fancy putting a Suffolk ram on them. All lambs are sold so don’t keep any replacements. Thanks, Mac

    Bought a Charolais hoggett ram. Good big strong sheep. We’ll see how we got on:D


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    #6331
    DJ98
    Registered Users Posts: 1,315 ✭✭✭DJ98


    What's the best bolus available to give to ewes? (texel X and other breeds)


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