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BB signal to garden cabin

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  • 30-05-2020 4:50pm
    #1
    helimachoptor
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,640 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Hi folks, due to Covid 19, myself & wife will be working from home for the foreseeable.
    We've got a garden cabin on the way and thats going down the bottom of the garden.

    Just reading some of the other threads here.

    We're going to be running an electrical cable to the shed from the house (electrician doing this)

    Which makes more sense

    1) to run an cat6 cable along in a protected run to the cabin and terminate with a router there?
    2) use a set of TP links?
    3) something else

    On FTTC, 80-100mb, both myself and wife on video calls a lot of the day.

    Thanks


«1

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    #2
    smuggler.ie
    Registered Users Posts: 4,083 ✭✭✭smuggler.ie


    Once running power cable, makes sense to get CAT along(even two), consider shielded, to prevent possible cross-talk.
    Once cable in, either separate "router" to act as AP(access point) or proper AP. Little switch would provide multiple Ethernet connections if needed.
    history of boards 2021




  • Options
    #3
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Definitely as above run cable, you will regret it otherwise.


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    #4
    Gooey Looey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭Gooey Looey


    smuggler.ie wrote: »
    Once running power cable, makes sense to get CAT along(even two), consider shielded, to prevent possible cross-talk.
    Once cable in, either separate "router" to act as AP(access point) or proper AP. Little switch would provide multiple Ethernet connections if needed.

    Don't forget if you run shielded cable they need special crimps that ground either end

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01EURRDXA/ref=cm_sw_r_apa_i_KXO0EbXPPCHRR

    You also could have problems running cat cable parallel to an electrical cable, it's not recommended


  • Options
    #5
    helimachoptor
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,640 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    smuggler.ie wrote: »
    Once running power cable, makes sense to get CAT along(even two), consider shielded, to prevent possible cross-talk.
    Once cable in, either separate "router" to act as AP(access point) or proper AP. Little switch would provide multiple Ethernet connections if needed.
    Gooey Looey wrote: »
    Don't forget if you run shielded cable they need special crimps that ground either end

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01EURRDXA/ref=cm_sw_r_apa_i_KXO0EbXPPCHRR


    Thanks guys, assume something like this would be fine?
    https://www.cablemonkey.ie/cat6-cable/13867-cat6-ftp-shielded-pvc-solid-core-cable.html


  • Options
    #6
    helimachoptor
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,640 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    just dont some measuring, with some added tail at the end, I'll need a 50m+ (probably <60M) shielded cable.

    Any recommendations?
    Most amazon suppliers are 50m, so assume it might need to be a custom request.


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    #7
    DublinDilbert
    Registered Users Posts: 5,366 ✭✭✭DublinDilbert


    Electrical wholesalers or the likes of woods communication if your near ballymount. Most wholesalers should have Shielded Twisted Pair, but not sure if you would need to purchase an entire roll. Are you putting it in a duct or burying directly?

    https://www.cablemonkey.ie/cat6-cable/22-excel-cat6-utp-external-cable-ldpe-outer-sheath.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI7aHhjKrg6QIViu3tCh2UHANZEAAYAiAAEgK7pfD_BwE

    https://www.cablemonkey.ie/cat6-bulk-cable/87182-armoured-external-cat6-ftp-solid-cable.html


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    #8
    Gooey Looey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭Gooey Looey


    helimachoptor wrote: »
    just dont some measuring, with some added tail at the end, I'll need a 50m+ (probably <60M) shielded cable.

    Any recommendations?
    Most amazon suppliers are 50m, so assume it might need to be a custom request.

    Just buy 100m and cut and recrimp


  • Options
    #9
    helimachoptor
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,640 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    DublinDilbert wrote: »
    Electrical wholesalers or the likes of woods communication if your near ballymount. Most wholesalers should have Shielded Twisted Pair, but not sure if you would need to purchase an entire roll. Are you putting it in a duct or burying directly?

    https://www.cablemonkey.ie/cat6-cable/22-excel-cat6-utp-external-cable-ldpe-outer-sheath.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI7aHhjKrg6QIViu3tCh2UHANZEAAYAiAAEgK7pfD_BwE

    https://www.cablemonkey.ie/cat6-bulk-cable/87182-armoured-external-cat6-ftp-solid-cable.html


    Would they put on the RJ45? Just waiting on a friend to see if he has a crimping tool. Will be going by ballymount a few times this week so could get it then.
    Most likely a duct.


  • Options
    #10
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,260 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Better off running two cables. Just in case one gets damage. Won’t add much to the cost. Also terminate into a wall plate instead off putting a rj45 on the end


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    #11
    helimachoptor
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,640 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    ted1 wrote: »
    Better off running two cables. Just in case one gets damage. Won’t add much to the cost. Also terminate into a wall plate instead off putting a rj45 on the end

    thanks, didnt even think of either of those


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    #12
    helimachoptor
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,640 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    If i can ask another question.
    My router is at the front of the house and running a cable entirely from there to the garden isnt an option.

    I have a wifi booster, so my plan would be:

    Router > to Booster (wifi) - Cable from Booster to RJ45 Socket (internal wall) - Shielded cable run from there to garden cabin and terminated in socket for an AP.

    I've done some tests cabled into the booster while its connected to the router over wifi, ping is about 110Ms, so would expect that to go up to 150? when all legs are in play.

    Is there a better solution?


  • Options
    #13
    Nelbert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭Nelbert


    helimachoptor wrote: »
    If i can ask another question.
    My router is at the front of the house and running a cable entirely from there to the garden isnt an option.

    I have a wifi booster, so my plan would be:

    Router > to Booster (wifi) - Cable from Booster to RJ45 Socket (internal wall) - Shielded cable run from there to garden cabin and terminated in socket for an AP.

    I've done some tests cabled into the booster while its connected to the router over wifi, ping is about 110Ms, so would expect that to go up to 150? when all legs are in play.

    Is there a better solution?

    The best solution is cable end to end but in the scenario above there should be little difference between plugging a 1m and a 50m cable in to the booster.

    If you can at all run a cable (2 ideally) end to end. Failing that this may be the best.

    Could you not neatly tack to wall (good cable could be painted over or the duct if you can duct right up to entering house). Should minimise aesthetic issues?

    Edit: Other option is powerline adapters if you'll have a socket on same circuit (not sure if this is still required on newer powerline adapters) as cabin? Perhaps others could advise on powerline.


  • Options
    #14
    helimachoptor
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,640 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    Nelbert wrote: »
    The best solution is cable end to end but in the scenario above there should be little difference between plugging a 1m and a 50m cable in to the booster.

    If you can at all run a cable (2 ideally) end to end. Failing that this may be the best.

    Could you not neatly tack to wall (good cable could be painted over or the duct if you can duct right up to entering house). Should minimise aesthetic issues?

    Edit: Other option is powerline adapters if you'll have a socket on same circuit (not sure if this is still required on newer powerline adapters) as cabin? Perhaps others could advise on powerline.

    Tbh need the wife to agree and just the way our house is laid out just makes it awkward to run the cable. Can go with what I proposed and if its causing issues that will make cabling in the house more palatable


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    #15
    diggerdigger
    Registered Users Posts: 129 ✭✭diggerdigger


    helimachoptor wrote: »
    If i can ask another question.
    My router is at the front of the house and running a cable entirely from there to the garden isnt an option.

    I have a wifi booster, so my plan would be:

    Router > to Booster (wifi) - Cable from Booster to RJ45 Socket (internal wall) - Shielded cable run from there to garden cabin and terminated in socket for an AP.

    I've done some tests cabled into the booster while its connected to the router over wifi, ping is about 110Ms, so would expect that to go up to 150? when all legs are in play.

    Is there a better solution?

    I think a mesh setup with powerlink backhaul would be better IMO. Maybe tplink Deco p9 if you want it all in one kit. Alternatively achieve it yourself with a powerlink wap type plug or similar. Using WiFi to get to a cat6 to go out to office is a bit fiddley for multiple video streams. What WiFi bridge you using to get to the back of the hoise.?


    But be assured, cat6 direct from switch/router, properly terminated in a wall plate (as many points as you can manage) is a much better solution long term.


  • Options
    #16
    krissovo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,645 ✭✭✭krissovo


    I have a similar situation at home, used power link initially but its a little unstable and drove me mad at times. Then went for a mesh network and power line so I had a backup option this was 98% reliable but still 2 or 3 times a month I had issues and normally during a really important meeting. Now have CAT 6 which is completely reliable.

    Do it right, the situation is not changing anytime soon for most of us.


  • Options
    #17
    niallb
    Registered Users Posts: 2,715 ✭✭✭niallb


    You have an opportunity to run cable to the shed now at little extra cost since you're digging and running the duct for electrical cable anyway. Do that bit.

    Cat6 is good at dealing with electrical interference. As several people have said, put two of them in and have them terminated to wall boxes. If you just out plugs on the end they'll have far more wear and tear and will fail eventually.

    Even if the full setup with the WiFi 'booster' isn't ideal, this is still the best solution for that 50m part of the picture.

    Mesh products are likely to be better than any booster you have at the moment, but just to get the signal to the next room and cable the rest of the way. Even a pair of powerline adapters may get a connection from your router to the 50m cable faster than WiFi, but performance is very dependent on your home.


  • Options
    #18
    diggerdigger
    Registered Users Posts: 129 ✭✭diggerdigger


    Don't know your layout, but maybe you could look at running the cat6 straight out to garden near you router in the front, then around to cabin. Often the can be easier routes outside the house to bury/conceal cables? Maybe just a bit more trenching and some trunking (which you have to do for power anyway)?


  • Options
    #19
    helimachoptor
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,640 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    diggerdigger wrote: »
    I think a mesh setup with powerlink backhaul would be better IMO. Maybe tplink Deco p9 if you want it all in one kit. Alternatively achieve it yourself with a powerlink wap type plug or similar. Using WiFi to get to a cat6 to go out to office is a bit fiddley for multiple video streams. What WiFi bridge you using to get to the back of the hoise.?


    But be assured, cat6 direct from switch/router, properly terminated in a wall plate (as many points as you can manage) is a much better solution long term.

    I've for a Sky wifi booster thing, but i know I'll need something better.
    Tbh, I could probably go powerline from the router to the socket that will go out to the garden cabin, that might be an easer way

    Router -> TP Link to Internal Socket -> and this will probably be wrong, but if i change that socket faceplate to one with a RJ45 connection, I assume i can take the ethernet cable from the TP link and plug into the rj45 connection on the faceplate? - > run that out to cabin and terminate.

    In the cabin, I was just planning on using an old router as an AP, it has 4 ports rather than a specific switch.

    And sorry what is probably a dumb question, but I'm assuming faceplates arent pre-wired?


  • Options
    #20
    helimachoptor
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,640 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    krissovo wrote: »
    I have a similar situation at home, used power link initially but its a little unstable and drove me mad at times. Then went for a mesh network and power line so I had a backup option this was 98% reliable but still 2 or 3 times a month I had issues and normally during a really important meeting. Now have CAT 6 which is completely reliable.

    Do it right, the situation is not changing anytime soon for most of us.
    niallb wrote: »
    You have an opportunity to run cable to the shed now at little extra cost since you're digging and running the duct for electrical cable anyway. Do that bit.

    Cat6 is good at dealing with electrical interference. As several people have said, put two of them in and have them terminated to wall boxes. If you just out plugs on the end they'll have far more wear and tear and will fail eventually.

    Even if the full setup with the WiFi 'booster' isn't ideal, this is still the best solution for that 50m part of the picture.

    Mesh products are likely to be better than any booster you have at the moment, but just to get the signal to the next room and cable the rest of the way. Even a pair of powerline adapters may get a connection from your router to the 50m cable faster than WiFi, but performance is very dependent on your home.
    diggerdigger wrote: »
    Don't know your layout, but maybe you could look at running the cat6 straight out to garden near you router in the front, then around to cabin. Often the can be easier routes outside the house to bury/conceal cables? Maybe just a bit more trenching and some trunking (which you have to do for power anyway)?


    Thanks all, Digger you've solved it.
    so where the router is there is a socket internally, on the outside wall there another socket, so can just run the cable out there and tack externally onto and along the garage over the back of the house and then down to meet where the electrical wire will come out.

    Can i run the cat 6 exposed around the house?


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    #21
    diggerdigger
    Registered Users Posts: 129 ✭✭diggerdigger


    helimachoptor wrote: »
    Thanks all, Digger you've solved it.
    so where the router is there is a socket internally, on the outside wall there another socket, so can just run the cable out there and tack externally onto and along the garage over the back of the house and then down to meet where the electrical wire will come out.

    Can i run the cat 6 exposed around the house?

    Yep, up to 100m, but you'll want to keep it tidy. Keep it protected though with trunking, even if shielded. You can put a socket plate on the inside wall, and terminate there, and a corresponding in the cabin. Make sure you get shielded faceplates. I've also seem quad singles for 4 cables ,but don't know if you can get quad shielded.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/deleyCON-CAT-Universal-Network-Socket/dp/B012G6MKKI

    A well terminated setup should have no problem supporting 10Gbit. You have headroom for many years I'd wager.


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    #22
    diggerdigger
    Registered Users Posts: 129 ✭✭diggerdigger


    Also check out armoured cat 6 for the outside run if you think trunking not suitable, or not visually desirable.


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    #23
    helimachoptor
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,640 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    diggerdigger wrote: »
    Also check out armoured cat 6 for the outside run if you think trunking not suitable, or not visually desirable.

    should have done this, installed and all working fine, but snagged the cable when i trimming back some of the bushes around it and cut it.
    Getting fixed today


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    #24
    helimachoptor
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,640 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    Will an electrical wholesaler sell a cat6 junction box?


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    #25
    Gooey Looey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭Gooey Looey


    helimachoptor wrote: »
    Will an electrical wholesaler sell a cat6 junction box?

    Junction box? You cannot split Ethernet. Are you talking about a patch panel?


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    #26
    helimachoptor
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,640 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    Gooey Looey wrote: »
    Junction box? You cannot split Ethernet. Are you talking about a patch panel?

    https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Leader-Junction-Punch-Style/dp/B01M992GMZ
    Something like this.

    The cable already had an accident with the garden tool, so that was put in a normal electrical junction box and has worked fine.
    I can do this again but though a traditional connector might be easier.


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    #27
    Gooey Looey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭Gooey Looey


    helimachoptor wrote: »
    https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Leader-Junction-Punch-Style/dp/B01M992GMZ
    Something like this.

    The cable already had an accident with the garden tool, so that was put in a normal electrical junction box and has worked fine.
    I can do this again but though a traditional connector might be easier.

    Ah yeah, I forgot you damaged the cable. I doubt you'll find one of those in an electrical wholesalers, just order on Amazon and put it in a plastic enclosure with a waterproof gland, you'll get this in a wholesalers


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    #28
    helimachoptor
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,640 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    Hi folks could do with some help.

    Fixed the bb cable earlier.
    But I've no Internet.

    Im pinging my vf router from the access point but getting a destination unreachable error.

    Any ideas?


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    #29
    smuggler.ie
    Registered Users Posts: 4,083 ✭✭✭smuggler.ie


    helimachoptor wrote: »
    Hi folks could do with some help.

    Fixed the bb cable earlier.
    But I've no Internet.

    Im pinging my vf router from the access point but getting a destination unreachable error.

    Any ideas?
    If you used that junction box, you got wires correctly? you got wires punched properly?
    history of boards 2021




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    #30
    helimachoptor
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,640 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    smuggler.ie wrote: »
    If you used that junction box, you got wires correctly? you got wires punched properly?

    Sparks was over (he's a friend) so he did an electrical junction box.

    My default gateway when I connect to the AP ie the IP accessing the router management page rather than the ip of my vf router. Is that the problem


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    #31
    helimachoptor
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,640 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    The port on my router that I have a cable connected to an ethernet wall port is flashing as if there's an active connection


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