Heart Rate Training - beginners guide

eyrie wrote: »

Strange! I'm doing exclusively heart-rate based base building at the moment, all aerobic and well below tempo pace, and the vast majority of it very slow and easy. My number dropped a bit at the very start (for unrelated reasons, I think) and has since come back up. I'd expect if I continue and my heartrate starts to drop for the same pace that the number would go up, as that's what usually happens. I've never tried entering VO2 manually on Garmin though, I wonder if that's affected it for you?

I don't really know TBH. Up to February I used to run at tempo all the time, Parkruns and speedwork with hill sessions which had me consistently in the mid 50s.

When you say the 'vast majority' are you still getting some threshold/tempo runs in?

I am under a blanket ban on anything above aerobic which is bloody hard in this heat. In England and last night was 23 degrees and 45% humidity- reduced to walking in places to keep HR down.

I just figured (rightly or wrongly) that because I am running exclusively aerobic below threshold x 5 per week that was causing it to drop. My mileage has increased significantly since February but VO2 dropped. As it was pointed out to me Vo2 measurment in the context of slow aerobic training should not be taken notice of simple because you are not getting anywhere close to mimicing a VO2 test.

I am going back in a few weeks to the same lab for a new test which should be interesting.

partyguinness wrote: »

I don't really know TBH. Up to February I used to run at tempo all the time, Parkruns and speedwork with hill sessions which had me consistently in the mid 50s.

When you say the 'vast majority' are you still getting some threshold/tempo runs in?

I am under a blanket ban on anything above aerobic which is bloody hard in this heat. In England and last night was 23 degrees and 45% humidity- reduced to walking in places to keep HR down.

I just figured (rightly or wrongly) that because I am running exclusively aerobic below threshold x 5 per week that was causing it to drop. My mileage has increased significantly since February but VO2 dropped. As it was pointed out to me Vo2 measurment in the context of slow aerobic training should not be taken notice of simple because you are not getting anywhere close to mimicing a VO2 test.

I am going back in a few weeks to the same lab for a new test which should be interesting.

My training at the moment sounds pretty similar to yours to be honest! And I hear you on how hard it is to keep the heart rate down enough in this weather - not fun.
No, I'm not doing any tempo or threshold runs - I'm doing all easy runs (well one is the long run, but easy effort) aside from two steady runs which would be well below tempo pace and effort. That's it, not a whole lot of variety! I'm hoping it leads to some improvements though, and sure at the moment there's not much else to be doing anyway

Casey78 wrote: »

The heat has been a killer lately alright. I went out at 6am this morning to try an avoid some of the heat and it was still 13c when I started and 16c by the time I finished.
Glad to hear I'm not the only one struggling to keep the HR down. I'm also doing only Zone 2 runs and I seem to be walking more than running atm, really frustrating.
I'm hoping come the Autumn/Winter it will pay off.

Do you mind me asking what your HR zones are and what you're basing them on?

Casey78 wrote: »

Using the Karvonen Method formula,MAX HR is 200 which I have tested multiple times,resting is about 60. So Zone 2 is 144-158.

Ah right...I'm having the opposite problem. I'm also using the Karvonen Method and have recently found my easy runs aren't getting out of Zone 1. Zone 2 feels like a steady run...

skyblue46 wrote: »

Ah right...I'm having the opposite problem. I'm also using the Karvonen Method and have recently found my easy runs aren't getting out of Zone 1. Zone 2 feels like a steady run...

How are you calculating the max? The karvonen formula is very hit and miss.

Why do you feel the pace needs to increase? Could be right, but at the same time you seem to be getting results, based on recent TT times anyway.

Having said that, I can't do the faster end of easy (according to calculators like McMillan or JD) within zone 2 either, but I'm not sure that's a problem. What IS a problem is that rules of thumb like max-30 beats (as a MP indicator) tells me that my M goals are unrealistic!

How do you focus on form exactly? Something I’d like to pay more attention to. Sometime try to be more aware of posture, arms, tilt, etc. but it’s very hit and miss (in terms of remembering to think of it at all).

Any particular drills/thoughts you use to help focus?

skyblue46 wrote: »

Thanks M. Yes I get your point about differing paces at similar HR. My 'issue' recently is feeling that I am working harder on the faster days even if the HR indicates I'm not. That would be at a HR less than 75% of max HR...

Did you change your clothing to account for the weather recently?

skyblue46 wrote: »

Thanks M. Yes I get your point about differing paces at similar HR. My 'issue' recently is feeling that I am working harder on the faster days even if the HR indicates I'm not. That would be at a HR less than 75% of max HR...

Are you carrying fatigue across the easy days? Your TT was some speed. What was your avg/max% hr for it?

Murph_D wrote: »

How do you focus on form exactly? Something I’d like to pay more attention to. Sometime try to be more aware of posture, arms, tilt, etc. but it’s very hit and miss (in terms of remembering to think of it at all).

Any particular drills/thoughts you use to help focus?

It's something I took from swimming funnily enough. I learned to swim age 30-31. First 1500m was 29mins. Within 2 years I was holding that pace for a 3800m IM swim. Also the 1500m down to 22mins and did a 2hrs50 marathon swim (10k). Now if I could only progress as much running!

I swam thousands of lengths of a pool but almost always had 1 point of technique/form to concentrate on. Aware of the body and what it is doing stroke after stroke.

Ok to running. Lately I've been reminding myself to run taller. Imagine you straighten up to have a photo taken. You instantly engage your core and square your shoulders. I sit at a desk all day for work so my core (source of power) is weak and my shoulder tend to hunch forward. This is exacerbated when I'm running tired. By thinking "run taller" I consciously lengthen my spine, engage my core, squeeze my shoulder blades closer together. The outcome of this is my elbows feel lower and dont cross as much. The sideways motion sinks my hips and I quit engaging my glutes.

When the glutes and core are engaged, running feels easy. It's just not easy to do!

Sorry long answer to a simple question.

I do exactly the same as above. Always reminding myself to run tall and stay up on my feet. When I fatigue or get lazy I sink into my hips a bit and run flat footed. It's always the last thought in all of my sessions before the watch beeps for the next rep. Get up on my toes and run tall. I make a point of getting a high knee lift for the first few seconds and then settle.

I have a tonne of links to drills which I'll post when not on the phone. Can't post links with the mobile app for some reason. I don't do enough drills to be honest. I should make more time.

I notice on my easy runs if the pace is slower than my normal pace I find that my stride is a few cm's shorter also. Cadence be on par but I'm adding extra strides. If it is 5 cm's a stride for 1m that is 1 extra stride in every 20. All adds up.

Also I find I need to get the control of the hr early if I don't it is hard to get it under control.

Swashbuckler wrote: »

I do exactly the same as above. Always reminding myself to run tall and stay up on my feet. When I fatigue or get lazy I sink into my hips a bit and run flat footed. It's always the last thought in all of my sessions before the watch beeps for the next rep. Get up on my toes and run tall. I make a point of getting a high knee lift for the first few seconds and then settle.

I have a tonne of links to drills which I'll post when not on the phone. Can't post links with the mobile app for some reason. I don't do enough drills to be honest. I should make more time.

Up to 2016 I was very heavy and flat footed which was particularly noticible during my speedwork sessions on the track. In fact when I was passing out the slower groups one lady commented that she always knew it was me coming from behind a mile away with the heavy stomping. That was a little sobering- I think I heard the word 'elephant'.

So I bought spikes and started running on the ballls of my feet- was in agony after the first few sessions as my calves got used to it.

Now, I am constantly up on my toes and it is second nature. Lapping with little or no noise. Very very rarely toward the end of a hard long track session I might feel my heel on the track from tiredness but that immediately jolts me back into proper form. I have taken this into road running also. I have no injuries or niggles since I changed.


Maintaining the high knees is bloody hard and can't really do it but track running with spikes really improved my form.

FinnC wrote: »

I'm curious as to why you think the Karvonen formula is hit and miss?

I may have misrepresented the method - I was of the impression that it used an age-related formula to calculate an individual's max. I may have been wrong about that, in which case my criticisms are half-baked and best ignored.

Sounds OK so. I've always used the HRR method, just never associated it with Karvonen. I think I was mixing it up with the Maffetone method, which I'd glanced at recently. Happy to admit my error.