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Vaccines: Pro or Anti?

  • 20-05-2020 3:32pm
    #1
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭


    What ever side of the fence you are on, it is beneficial for us to that vaccine companies are held accountable for their products.
    If people will be taking the vaccines, making them accountable is a way to ensure that due care is taken in the process so ensure safety of all.
    Please if you know anyone in the USA, ask them to sign this petition.

    https://sign.moveon.org/petitions/repeal-immunity-for-drug

    Whether you choose not to take the vaccine, there are others who you know that might not have a choice.


Comments

  • #2
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    What exactly is the question you're asking. Am I in favour of vaccines? Yes, they do not cause autism and they interrupt outbreaks of measles and other common viruses that are dangerous to vulnerable age groups. And when a vaccine is found for Covid-19, I'll be in favour of that too. Prevention is better than the cure.

    And now the latter "question" you've shoehorned in, which is your real agenda: is anyone being forced to take a vaccine? Of course not, we don't happen to live in a fictional dystopia a la Clockwork Orange. Is this still Ireland by the way, or was it quietly annexed by the USA? We're not as prone to hysterical fearmongering over here.


  • #3
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    I will have absolutely zero sympathy for any adult that dies if they refuse a vaccine for 5Gorona, less morons in the world. Unfortunately there will be children who will suffer.


  • #4
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    What exactly is the question you're asking. Am I in favour of vaccines? Yes, they do not cause autism and they interrupt outbreaks of measles and other common viruses that are dangerous to vulnerable age groups. And when a vaccine is found for Covid-19, I'll be in favour of that too. Prevention is better than the cure.

    And now the latter "question" you've shoehorned in, which is your real agenda: is anyone being forced to take a vaccine? Of course not, we don't happen to live in a fictional dystopia a la Clockwork Orange. Is this still Ireland by the way, or was it quietly annexed by the USA? We're not as prone to hysterical fearmongering over here.

    Lol, not sure what you mean here?
    I don’t care for the argument of whether one is pro or against. I don’t see the point for the divide.

    I however thing that accountability of these companies will make the choice for it safer for those who choose to use it.

    I was vaccinated at birth so I am not against it. I however found out that these companies who make vaccines don’t have any responsibility if something goes wrong.

    I think if this is crucial to ensuring that companies take due care in the process and not rushing out the door to announce a success which can cause problems to their customers.

    Re Ireland being a US annex, well, that’s not the way I look at it. These corporations are global and their products will easily find its way into our borders one way or the other.

    Take an example of Sanofi and how they had an issue with one of their vaccines in the Philippines. 10 kids lost their lives.
    The company later acknowledged that in some cases, their product can increase the risk of severe dengue in people who had not been previously exposed to the disease, limiting access to vaccine after deaths of children were reported in the Philippines.

    This vaccine is cleared by the European Medicine Agency for use in some conditions but those kids didn’t have to loose their lives especially when their encounter with the vaccine was not a trial phase.

    So for me it’s not really a pro or anti debate because that’s a personal choice.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-sanofi-fr-philippines/philippines-to-charge-officials-of-sanofi-government-over-dengue-vaccine-idUSKCN1QI41L


  • #5
    ThewhiteJesus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,714 ✭✭✭ThewhiteJesus


    I took the swine flu jab and I’ll take the covid jab


  • #6
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    emulsifier wrote: »
    So for me it’s not really a pro or anti debate because that’s a personal choice.
    But you named the thread: "Vaccines: Pro or Anti"...:confused:


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  • #7
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,679 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    emulsifier wrote: »
    Lol, not sure what you mean here?
    I don’t care for the argument of whether one is pro or against. I don’t see the point for the divide.

    I however thing that accountability of these companies will make the choice for it safer for those who choose to use it.

    I was vaccinated at birth so I am not against it. I however found out that these companies who make vaccines don’t have any responsibility if something goes wrong.

    I think if this is crucial to ensuring that companies take due care in the process and not rushing out the door to announce a success which can cause problems to their customers.

    Re Ireland being a US annex, well, that’s not the way I look at it. These corporations are global and their products will easily find its way into our borders one way or the other.

    Take an example of Sanofi and how they had an issue with one of their vaccines in the Philippines. 10 kids lost their lives.
    The company later acknowledged that in some cases, their product can increase the risk of severe dengue in people who had not been previously exposed to the disease, limiting access to vaccine after deaths of children were reported in the Philippines.

    This vaccine is cleared by the European Medicine Agency for use in some conditions but those kids didn’t have to loose their lives especially when their encounter with the vaccine was not a trial phase.

    So for me it’s not really a pro or anti debate because that’s a personal choice.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-sanofi-fr-philippines/philippines-to-charge-officials-of-sanofi-government-over-dengue-vaccine-idUSKCN1QI41L

    Well I have 2 question.

    1. I presume you know that vaccine like all drugs can have side effects so I am guessing you are not talking about them?

    2. How are we to verify what ever happens to someone is due to a vaccine or something the company knew of?


  • #8
    Rubberchikken
    Registered Users Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭Rubberchikken


    I used to be for them. But have changed my mind over time. Probably with age I've grown more cynical and disbelieving.


  • #9
    MadYaker
    Registered Users Posts: 12,138 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    Whats the anti vaccine stuff based on? Has a vaccine that cleared all the necessary trials ever been genuinely shown to be dangerous?


  • #10
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    MadYaker wrote: »
    Whats the anti vaccine stuff based on? Has a vaccine that cleared all the necessary trials ever been genuinely shown to be dangerous?
    It would depend on how you define dangerous. Vaccines like all medicines can have side effects and adverse reactions.
    On the whole, vaccines are effective in preventing the spread of illnesses and the tiny portion of side effects are still preferable to the effects of the illness.

    Most anti-vaccine stuff gained traction based on one study by one guy:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Wakefield
    He claimed that there was a link between the MMR vaccine (which most children receive) and autism.

    His paper was produced in very shady circumstances and was subsequently torn apart, retracted and refuted by stacks of other better studies, while he was stricken from the medical register.

    Since then, Wakefield has been making a pretty penny by playing the victim and appealing to the conspiracy crowd.

    Here's a good video that gives a general summary:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0ZZTjChW4o


  • #11
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    emulsifier wrote: »

    I however thing that accountability of these companies will make the choice for it safer for those who choose to use it.

    I was vaccinated at birth so I am not against it. I however found out that these companies who make vaccines don’t have any responsibility if something goes wrong.

    I think if this is crucial to ensuring that companies take due care in the process and not rushing out the door to announce a success which can cause problems to their customers.
    [/url]

    Rational position. Some users on here will rush to judgement and just assume you're an anti- vaccine person.


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  • #12
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    MadYaker wrote: »
    Whats the anti vaccine stuff based on? Has a vaccine that cleared all the necessary trials ever been genuinely shown to be dangerous?
    If you take Gates own (the self-appointed vaccine man) view on this (from his blog), there is indication that this particular COVID19 vaccine, would 'have' to bypass the normal rigours of multi-phase standard trials and testing, and go straight to 'massive scale' manufacturing.

    It could acheive this bypass using 'emergency licensing'.

    Essential, if you want to push out 7bn doses (for entire planet), of something within 12-18mths, instead of the previous fastest record of 5yrs. Surely this rush to push, would have a slight increased risk factor attached to it.


  • #13
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,747 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Helen Cuddly Tourniquet wrote: »
    If you take Gates own (the self-appointed vaccine man) view on this (from his blog), there is indication that this particular COVID19 vaccine, would 'have' to bypass the normal rigours of multi-phase standard trials and testing, and go straight to 'massive scale' manufacturing.

    It could acheive this bypass using 'emergency licensing'.

    Essential, if you want to push out 7bn doses (for entire planet), of something within 12-18mths, instead of the previous fastest record of 5yrs. Surely this rush to push, would have a slight increased risk factor attached to it.

    Again, your bizarre fixation with Bill Gates.

    Vaccine producers all around the world (120+ of them) are fast-tracking the process for obvious reasons. There will be a (relative) risk to that, they acknowledge that.

    They obviously aren't going to release something that isn't as safe as it can be, then again they aren't going to go the usual route of taking 5 years, because there simply isn't enough time.


  • #14
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    They obviously aren't going to release something that isn't as safe as it can be, then again they aren't going to go the usual route of taking 5 years, because there simply isn't enough time.

    Will be released in 12-18mths time, regardless. Time is the primary factor.
    5yrs isn't even the 'normal' time, it's the previous fastest ever record.

    NTlGqUA.png
    Point is there will likely be an enhanced 'element of risk' when bypassing the normal stages or procedures and using emergency licensing to expedite the usual approval process.

    It will also be risk multiplied by the sheer volume, scope and size of delivery (7bn people) entire population of planet within 18mths.


  • #15
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,747 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Helen Cuddly Tourniquet wrote: »
    Will be released in 12-18mths time, regardless.

    No it won't be released regardless. It will be released when it is considered relatively safe enough to be released. Their "aim" is 1 to 1 and a half years approx.

    The people who are developing these vaccines - their colleagues, friends, families will also be likely taking these vaccines. A point often forgotten by those quick to peddle their silly narrative into these things.


  • #16
    CFC1969
    Registered Users Posts: 296 ✭✭CFC1969


    martingriff wrote: »
    Well I have 2 question.

    1. I presume you know that vaccine like all drugs can have side effects so I am guessing you are not talking about them?

    2. How are we to verify what ever happens to someone is due to a vaccine or something the company knew of?

    I noticed you have received no answers to two very reasonable questions.

    People who do not question vaccines use anecdotal evidence to state their case, rather than analysis covering numbers tested, and full disclosure of results

    If anyone can answer the above questions I would also be interested

    On the second question, maybe " The antigens from the vaccine produced antibodies of the virus and this can be proved in a cause effect manner


  • #17
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,102 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    CFC1969 wrote: »
    I noticed you have received no answers to two very reasonable questions.

    People who do not question vaccines use anecdotal evidence to state their case, rather than analysis covering numbers tested, and full disclosure of results

    If anyone can answer the above questions I would also be interested

    On the second question, maybe " The antigens from the vaccine produced antibodies of the virus and this can be proved in a cause effect manner

    Huh??


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