~ Building a House in 2020 ~

rqc1i3ovl5uxt6 · 06-04-2020 10:28am #1

Hi All,

I've created a thread in order to determine the cost of building a house in Ireland in 2020.

I'm looking for individual case studies, with the hope of boards.ie users posting their location (east, west, south, midlands of Ireland), type of construction (block, ICF, SIP, Timber Frame etc), type of house (bungalow, dormer, one and half storey, two storey, two storey + attic), and most importantly, tender cost from contractors.

Personally, I have just received a mortgage offer of €195,000 and have savings of €70,000 (Total €265,000). I am hoping to buy a site in the west for €40,000, giving me a budget of €225,000 for a 175sqm house; is this realistic?

Any information would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

Gumbo · 06-04-2020 5:40pm

You will be hopping to build a new dwelling to current regs for €1275 per square meter. My opinion is no, it can’t be done unless a very very significant % of the labour is done by you free of charge.

What about planning costs, contributions, connections, professional fees etc?
Are they separate to the €225k?

ECO_Mental · 07-04-2020 3:16pm

Just tendered for my house outside Cork City, 250 sqrm inc PC sums for kitchen flooring etc Block built 200mm cavity A2 rated (high enough spec) €540,000.....add another €35,000 for Engineers Architects, planning fees service connection charges etc etc and you get a move into house with my bags, fully finished cost of around €575,000 :eek::eek: eek! that's even scaring me :P €2300/sqrm

Building a house these days is not cheap, there are so many regs you have to comply with, even getting a mortgage these days is geared towards main builder with them signing off on stages etc. Could I buy a house for cheaper (possibly... probably)but I am lucky I didnt have to pay for the site and the site is 8 minutes to the Wilton Road Roundabout in an A2 zoned area so I wont be losing money in doing it. (famous last words..thank you COVID)

If I was looking for a home way out west where house prices are significantly cheaper I would say you will buy a house now for a lot less than you will build it, but then you wont have the house of your dreams.

CorkRed93 · 07-04-2020 3:51pm

ECO_Mental wrote: »

Just tendered for my house outside Cork City, 250 sqrm inc PC sums for kitchen flooring etc Block built 200mm cavity A2 rated (high enough spec) €540,000.....add another €35,000 for Engineers Architects, planning fees service connection charges etc etc and you get a move into house with my bags, fully finished cost of around €575,000 :eek::eek: eek! that's even scaring me :P €2300/sqrm

Building a house these days is not cheap, there are so many regs you have to comply with, even getting a mortgage these days is geared towards main builder with them signing off on stages etc. Could I buy a house for cheaper (possibly... probably)but I am lucky I didnt have to pay for the site and the site is 8 minutes to the Wilton Road Roundabout in an A2 zoned area so I wont be losing money in doing it. (famous last words..thank you COVID)

If I was looking for a home way out west where house prices are significantly cheaper I would say you will buy a house now for a lot less than you will build it, but then you wont have the house of your dreams.

Jaysis those are mad figures. Are these prices all down to new building regs?

BryanF · 07-04-2020 7:38pm

CorkRed93 wrote: »

Jaysis those are mad figures. Are these prices all down to new building regs?

Not really

Materials, Tax, charges, service connections, Insurance, H&S etc

JoeA3 · 07-04-2020 10:05pm

I’m also building a house, in the west of the country. By contractor. We broke ground last August and we are now at 2nd fix stage, but progress has dramatically slowed down in recent weeks (thanks Covid!).

It’s approx 210 sq/m and by the time we’ve moved in I reckon it’ll be up at around €440k. That includes a very decent level of finish (but not furniture/soft furnishings), a good amount of groundworks, basic landscaping, 40 sq/m garage, fees, contributions, etc. Does not include the cost of the site of course.

Definitely not cheap, but no regrets so far. The Covid situation is a bit of a worry, but hopefully we will get back on track before too long.

enricoh · 07-04-2020 10:10pm

CorkRed93 wrote: »

Jaysis those are mad figures. Are these prices all down to new building regs?

Was talking to a lad that does heat surveys, ber's etc recently and he said you'd nearly want air conditioning installed in houses now as they are uncomfortably warm in the summer with all the new regs.

Gumbo · 07-04-2020 10:13pm

enricoh wrote: »

Was talking to a lad that does heat surveys, ber's etc recently and he said you'd nearly want air conditioning installed in houses now as they are uncomfortably warm in the summer with all the new regs.

I hear those comments from inexperienced or ill-informed people to be honest.
I would take the comments in jest.

BryanF · 07-04-2020 11:05pm

enricoh wrote: »

Was talking to a lad that does heat surveys, ber's etc recently and he said you'd nearly want air conditioning installed in houses now as they are uncomfortably warm in the summer with all the new regs.

Rubbish. Overheating is poor design and nothing to do with new regs.

rqc1i3ovl5uxt6 · 08-04-2020 4:31pm

Hi all,

Many thanks for your comments; I appreciate all the advice I can get!

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Gumbo wrote: »

You will be hopping to build a new dwelling to current regs for €1275 per square meter. My opinion is no, it can’t be done unless a very very significant % of the labour is done by you free of charge.

What about planning costs, contributions, connections, professional fees etc?
Are they separate to the €225k?

Thanks Gumbo; I will be doing the planning drawings and application myself as I work in the construction industry and getting a friend to do the percolation test and structural drawings. I hope to opt out of BCAR certification.

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ECO_Mental wrote: »

Just tendered for my house outside Cork City, 250 sqrm inc PC sums for kitchen flooring etc Block built 200mm cavity A2 rated (high enough spec) €540,000.....add another €35,000 for Engineers Architects, planning fees service connection charges etc etc and you get a move into house with my bags, fully finished cost of around €575,000 :eek::eek: eek! that's even scaring me :P €2300/sqrm

Building a house these days is not cheap, there are so many regs you have to comply with, even getting a mortgage these days is geared towards main builder with them signing off on stages etc. Could I buy a house for cheaper (possibly... probably)but I am lucky I didnt have to pay for the site and the site is 8 minutes to the Wilton Road Roundabout in an A2 zoned area so I wont be losing money in doing it. (famous last words..thank you COVID)

If I was looking for a home way out west where house prices are significantly cheaper I would say you will buy a house now for a lot less than you will build it, but then you wont have the house of your dreams.

Thanks ECO_Mental; I must say my heart sank when I saw a quotation of €575,000 for a 250sqm new build outside Cork City. That really is mental, I understand that an A2 BER is required to meet NZEB regulations. Do you mind me asking what the most expensive items were in this quotation?

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JoeA3 wrote: »

I’m also building a house, in the west of the country. By contractor. We broke ground last August and we are now at 2nd fix stage, but progress has dramatically slowed down in recent weeks (thanks Covid!).

It’s approx 210 sq/m and by the time we’ve moved in I reckon it’ll be up at around €440k. That includes a very decent level of finish (but not furniture/soft furnishings), a good amount of groundworks, basic landscaping, 40 sq/m garage, fees, contributions, etc. Does not include the cost of the site of course.

Definitely not cheap, but no regrets so far. The Covid situation is a bit of a worry, but hopefully we will get back on track before too long.

Thanks JoeA3; Do you mind me asking what the most expensive items were in this quotation? Is it a straight forward footprint (rectangle, l-shaped) or have you many projections and features?

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enricoh wrote: »

Was talking to a lad that does heat surveys, ber's etc recently and he said you'd nearly want air conditioning installed in houses now as they are uncomfortably warm in the summer with all the new regs.

Gumbo wrote: »

I hear those comments from inexperienced or ill-informed people to be honest.
I would take the comments in jest.

BryanF wrote: »

Rubbish. Overheating is poor design and nothing to do with new regs.

Thanks enricoh, Gumbo and BryanF; what are your opinions on a DCV (Demand Control Ventilation) system as an alternative to a MVHR (Mechanical Heat Recovery & Ventilation) system, would this be considerably cheaper to buy, install and run?

sydthebeat · 08-04-2020 4:34pm

DCV, while cheaper, is not significantly cheaper... And you do not get any heat recovery element to it.

Its a step up from natural ventilation, but in my opinion, the extra cost of the MHRV greatly outweighs the trade off in extra energy efficiency, when compared to DCV

BryanF · 08-04-2020 4:36pm

Op if you’re in The industry, best advise I can give is to complete a passive house design course.

JoeA3 · 09-04-2020 11:10am

Samara Calm Storm wrote: »

Thanks JoeA3; Do you mind me asking what the most expensive items were in this quotation? Is it a straight forward footprint (rectangle, l-shaped) or have you many projections and features?

I did think it was straightforward on paper, but no, its not a very straightforward footprint (so my builder keeps reminding me!).

Its an L-shape, part bungalow (bedrooms space) and part double-height (living/kitchen), and there's a few non-standard details in it such as a couple of large corner windows, a small flat roof section over the stairs void and a double-height ceiling in the kitchen/dining.

Most expensive items...
- windows/doors. There was a PC sum for this but we've gone over that a bit as we went with aluclad. We dropped a few unnecessary velux's though, so that balances out.

- electrical - again its a PC sum and I reckon we will have exceeded that too, as we have a lot of long cable runs, due to the nature of the L-shape footprint and the double-height kitchen.

- groundworks are a very big one. We were obliged to build a block wall on the site perimeter, that was a sore cost, I'd have preferred a fence too even for aesthetics. The garage is also a chunky cost but its something I really wanted.

ECO_Mental · 09-04-2020 3:19pm

"Thanks ECO_Mental; I must say my heart sank when I saw a quotation of €575,000 for a 250sqm new build outside Cork City. That really is mental, I understand that an A2 BER is required to meet NZEB regulations. Do you mind me asking what the most expensive items were in this quotation?"

Everything....TBH, I went over the BOQ even with a few of my buddies to see where I could save money, but in reality if you are going to save money you need to be omitting things....You have to have walls, you have to have windows, foundation, heating etc etc.

But do you need stove 5k?, do you need a big outside patio, but this is small change, also changing the spec on you flooring its only small change. The only way you are going to save big money in building is build a smaller house...seriously do you need 2500sqr ft house that is where your biggest cost saving will be reducing the size of your house.

My house was also Architecturally designed (fancy angles:o) and split level so that is costing me more, if it was a simple box then I'm sure that it would cost me less. But hey, its the house of my dreams and if I was just going to build a box to live in then I should be buying a house.

Abbey47 · 10-04-2020 4:53am

Midlands build. Project manager but feels like direct labour the stress of it all! 2 year build n serious hardship.. only way it got moved on at all was when I got involved 24/7 calling lads n being around more. Lost 12 months by not being around n thinking it would all be grand and things work as they should.. U need to be there every day kicking stones n asking questions, lots of questions.. A lot of which u have an answer to u just need to keep lads honest unfortunately. If I did It again I'd build smaller and get a contractor. But we went for architect designed spilt level n with it came issues of extra expense via planning. 130sq ft builder finish. High spec, 190mm fullfill insulation, block build, spray foam roof insl everywhere, passive alu windows, mvhr, a2w underfloor everywhere. Loads of ups and downs. Best advice I'd give, meet your trades early whether u have builer pm or self build build relationship n keep them in money when they are there on site n let them know u will if they are there.. I cant get over how people hold back money and think the person will work harder for them! Doesn't happen. Anyone who is not a trade n has family in trades to help and thinks they will build high spec A rated for 100 sq ft is in for some shock! Both during it and most certainly when they come to finish it.. and by then it's too late. Your absolutely delusional if u think u will do it on your own or move in for under 120 sq ft to a A2 high spec finish.. u can cod yourself all u want but you will cut corners and your budget will take an unexpected hit somewhere during it all. Best of luck though I wudnt wise the whole process on my worst enemy!

TAPlank · 10-04-2020 5:10am

Internal solid (concrete Block) walls absorb heat when the house heats up and release it again when it cools. This is not in line with the trend of timber frame housing, but it overcomes much of their deficiencies and should be a standard method. It will also minimise condensation problems.

BryanF · 10-04-2020 8:39am

TAPlank wrote: »

Internal solid (concrete Block) walls absorb heat when the house heats up and release it again when it cools. This is not in line with the trend of timber frame housing, but it overcomes much of their deficiencies and should be a standard method. It will also minimise condensation problems.

Re walls absorbing heat (thermal mass) Research cellulose and decrement delay

Re Condensation problems, research ventilation & vapour barrier

I have a timber frame constructed extension, very happy with it.

JD1763 · 10-04-2020 2:43pm

East of the country - approx. 200 sq metres architect designed A2 mono pitch roof bungalow but a few 'funny' angles. Standard block build but we also need a decent amount of steel given the design.

Have not gone to tender yet but will be going with a main contractor as have no experience and could not manage the build ourselves.

Pre-corona QS indicative estimate was coming in around EUR 3,500 per square metre for a turn key finish. This included a 10% contingency.

Once we go through to tender will see what the real cost will be but given recent events it is anyone's guess where things will end up.

The estimate does not include any professional fees (architect, QS, engineer, solicitor), development contribution or connection fees (ESB and Irish water). When we first looked at architects we received quotes ranging from 10% to 13% of the build cost.

You can probably safely put EUR 100k against those costs. We already owned the site so have not included any costs for that in the figures.

CantFixIt · 10-04-2020 2:48pm

Hi all! Long time reader/lurker, first time poster as I thought our experience here with this recently might be valuable to some.

We have a site south of Cork City, got planning for a ~360sqm 5 bed (A2 rated, not bananas in terms of shape with nothing super special about it) and plan to self build as we have prior building experience. As we were getting through our stages of planning the build and costing everything up, we went to the market twice to see what contractors were pricing the work at relative to our own numbers. We got two prices back from their respective QS' between 780k and 840k, not including the large garage on the plans. That includes their % markups, which they were transparent with.

By far and away the most expensive item (estimated 118K) was plastering & finishes, steel, windows (depending on the provider, we have a lot of glazing and that number will vary) and blocklaying/external were next up before getting into the rest of the list. Some (but not a lot) of their lists can be taken with a pinch of salt. We went and independently priced the entire BoQ a number of times and were able to find unrealistic quotes from those providers but a lot of what they priced (minus their % markup) was realistic.

FWIW, we have confidence in our numbers at ~600k mark and had started building just before this COVID problem kicked off so who knows, when things start to flow again there might be additional savings to make in places.

tonytoc11 · 17-04-2020 9:57am

JD1763 wrote: »

East of the country - approx. 200 sq metres architect designed A2 mono pitch roof bungalow but a few 'funny' angles. Standard block build but we also need a decent amount of steel given the design.

Have not gone to tender yet but will be going with a main contractor as have no experience and could not manage the build ourselves.

Pre-corona QS indicative estimate was coming in around EUR 3,500 per square metre for a turn key finish. This included a 10% contingency.

Once we go through to tender will see what the real cost will be but given recent events it is anyone's guess where things will end up.

The estimate does not include any professional fees (architect, QS, engineer, solicitor), development contribution or connection fees (ESB and Irish water). When we first looked at architects we received quotes ranging from 10% to 13% of the build cost.

You can probably safely put EUR 100k against those costs. We already owned the site so have not included any costs for that in the figures.

The figures you're quoting here seem extremely high. What are you including in the €3500/m2? I'm in the middle of building a 240m2 high spec house in Cork and not seeing anywhere near those costs.

Also, €100k for architect, QS, engineer, solicitor, development contribution and connection fees certainly wouldn't be the norm.

JD1763 · 17-04-2020 2:59pm

Given that 2,500 was the 'average' cost per m2 pre-corona I don't believe 3,500 is extremely high at all. That figure is based off the QS calculating actual costs of certain element from other projects they've worked on and then allowing PC sums for other discretionary elements such as flooring, kitchen, lighting, bathrooms etc.

In reality you cannot compare one self-build with another as all have different characteristics and costs based on the design, desired level of finish and required site works. Prime example - you can have a 7,000 kitchen or a 70,000 kitchen. Flooring could be polished concrete/walnut or laminate. In our design we have a lot of glazing and steel so this raises our costs compared to a project that may not need the same budget for those elements. Also being a bungalow we have higher foundation and roofing costs than if we had been able to simply add a second storey.

Having been there myself trying to get an idea of what a self build could cost and could we afford it, I know people want to hear what the average is. But only a QS can give you a reasonable estimate of building your house based on the choices you make on every single element of your build.

For the ancillary costs - when I was researching self-building it was rare to see someone setting out a detailed costing for these elements. I think it is important for anyone considering self-building to at least have an awareness of where these can land when preparing their budget and looking at their financing so they don't get mis-led by 'averages'.

Maybe ours is an outlier, I don't feel like it is to be honest, but then at least it might serve as a worst case scenario for anyone looking at self-building. So the breakdown is:

Architect was 10% of our initial build budget landing around 58k for full service - stages 1-4. QS is around 12k for the whole project. Engineer was 11k for the design work, site inspections and preparing the site health and safety plan. Energy consultant 1,000. Development contribution approx. 20k. Depending on what services the solicitor is providing - a gifted land transfer will cost anywhere from 1-2k. You also have to pay stamp duty on the transfer and the fee for valuing the land. Connection fees depend on your site but Irish water is approx. 2k to connect to water main and 4k for waste water within 10 meters of the main and a lot more if you go beyond 15 metres. ESB is 2,000 if the connection is straightforward - I read an article on a project where it cost 10k for the ESB connection.

The only element in that breakdown that I would agree may not be the norm is the architect but like I said we contacted a number of firms and all quoted between 10-13% of build cost. Maybe we could have found another for a lower or a fixed price but we went with the firm we wanted based on their past work and reputation. We are only doing this once and wanted a particular design so we were prepared to pay for the right architect. For the other professionals we obtained multiple quotes and all were coming in reasonably similar so I do not believe these are excessive.

I would be interested in seeing the breakdown of these costs for your project.

Cushtie · 18-04-2020 2:30pm

Following this one.

We have just got planning permission for a fairly standard L Shaped bungalow. 158 sq meters.
UFH, A2W, MHRV. A2 RATING.

Midwest region.

The back of the L is split level as the site has a fair slope back on it.

That's about the only non standard aspect of it.

We are putting in hollow core slabs in ceiling as will be putting a couple of rooms in attic at a later stage.

We built our last house about 13 years ago by Direct Labour and had planned on going main contractor route this time round, however seeing some of the prices quoted in this thread I'm thinking we will be looking to break it up a bit.

The plan was to sell current house and build from proceeds and wipe out mortgage in process. Probably won't happen now what with COVID 19 throwing a bag of spanners in the works.

We have it out with builders at the minute for quotes.

Will report back.

One question, some posters obove mention haveing a BOM.. Is this provided by the builders when they quote or are people getting this from. QS Separately?

actuar90 · 19-04-2020 10:15pm

tonytoc11 wrote: »

The figures you're quoting here seem extremely high. What are you including in the €3500/m2? I'm in the middle of building a 240m2 high spec house in Cork and not seeing anywhere near those costs.

Also, €100k for architect, QS, engineer, solicitor, development contribution and connection fees certainly wouldn't be the norm.

What costs are you seeing Tony? We're just starting to plan for a similar sized house in cork so would be great to get some details on your experience

tonytoc11 · 20-04-2020 2:59pm

We tendered our house to 5 local builders in Nov 2019 and the build cost was working out at €1,708/m2. This was a turnkey quote inducing the following:

Septic tank, a 54m2 garage, finished driveway and landscaping, 20m2 of flat roofs, Siberian larch cladding, limestone cladding, vaulted ceilings, hollowcore slabs and precast staircase, fully spec'd electrical plan with Click Define sockets & switches throughout, A2W system with UFH on both floors and an MVHR system. Provisional sums were included for aluclad windows, kitchen, tiling and glass balustrade.

The ancillary costs are not included in the €1,708/m2, but I'm expecting these to come under €50k. We were gifted the site, so site purchase isn't included in my costs.

Architect - approx. €7k (I carried out this role)
Engineer - €6k incl. PSDP and stage sign off
QS - I didn't use one but I received quoted of approx. €1.5k for a BOQ
BER consultant - €400
Development contribution - €5k
Solicitor - €5k excl. stamp duty
Well - €5k
ESB - €2,650
Percolation test - €850 incl. excavator and driver rental

I'm certainly not disputing the fact that the house mentioned above is coming at €3,500/m2 with €100k ancillary costs. It's quite possible if the budget allows, but I wouldn't agree that these are typical costs for building a house in Ireland. All of my costs are inclusive of VAT.

kyler_87 · 20-04-2020 3:17pm

Hi all,

I posted before in a different thread but have finalised figures now.

30 mins from Cork city. 1950sqft bungalow,rectangular. 1 main bathroom, 1 ensuite. 450 sqft kitchen and dining area with vaulted ceiling. South facing rear, with fair bit of glazing. Costs below , broken out by fees and build costs. A2/A3 rating minimum.

Fees
Planning and Design 2500
Percolation and Site Suitablity 950
Cork CC Dues 3500
Construction Supervision | Engineer 7500
QS 800
PSDP 1300
BER Design & Assessment 1000
Solicitor | Land Transfter & Mortgage 1800
Stamp duty 6000
ESB Connection 2600
Total 28K

Basic House
Builder's payment 209000
Heating 15200
Windows 15750
Fencing 3045
Water (Incl Steeltech Shed) 10000
Plumbing (not ware) 8600
MHVR System 4700
Extra Electrical 1000
Extra Carpentry 1000

Total 268K

Finishes
Bathroom Ware 5000
Flooring & Tiles 10500
Appliances 6000
Kitchen & Utility 22000
Painting 2000 (to date, doing ourselves)
Furniture 7000
Light fittings 750
Flue/Stoves 5130
Blinds/Curtains 1500
Site Levelling 4800
Walk in Wardrope 1300
Driveway/Kerbs 5500

Total 75K

Overall:
28K fees
268K - shell of house with running water, heat and electricity
~343K relatively turn-key build cost + 28K fees = 371K

Notes:
Main contractor did groundwork, foundations, blockwork, roof, internal plastering, sewage (biocycle unit and raised bed perc) and electrics, internal carpentry.

A2W heating system installed. Ashgrove in Kanturk.

Just said I'd share some real world costs.

JD1763 · 20-04-2020 3:38pm

tonytoc11 wrote: »

Development contribution - €5k

I want to move to your local authority!

madmac187 · 25-04-2020 10:17pm

In the industry chaps, still got a builder didn’t have the time with work, 2650sqft for 229,000 in 2016 for an A2 rating with Mhrv, a2w ufh, triple glaze passive windows, precast floors with 50% oak stairs, including 100m access road and surround and cavity full fill with PVC facing. Christ costs really have jumped.

madmac187 · 25-04-2020 10:17pm

JD1763 wrote: »

I want to move to your local authority!

Development charge 2.5k!

BarryT2012 · 27-04-2020 11:53pm

Hi all,

Can anybody recommend any good free apps/sites out there that allow you to do some site/floor plans based on sqft/site acreage etc.

I see apps like autocad but they look to be subscription based.

If its the case of good auld fashion maths then so be it will get out excel..

Looking to buy a site but not sure what my minimum/max requirements are, total novice at this as you can see!!

Thanks in advance.

BryanF · 28-04-2020 8:12pm

Sketchup

ilovefruit · 29-04-2020 1:52pm

Hi all - I have found reading some of these posts quite frightening! We have just got quote from qs of 520,000 for 2660sqft house - some complicated angles and we are on quite an elevated site in the midlands. My husband is a plumber so will obviously doing that side of things. It seems that price above is reflective of current market - being in the trade or not? Any advice or insight greatly appreciated.

~ Building a House in 2020 ~

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