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Big Girl, etc.

2

Comments

  • Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    lawred2 wrote: »
    Actually the boy party/girl party thing is something I see with our two young lads.. and I had the same bemusement when we were organising one for our young lad a couple of weeks ago. Missus said the invites were just for the boys.. I queried it

    And the real reason behind it, where we are, is simply cost... the kids are all having playcentre parties - and the mums all agreed in their class whatsapp groups that inviting over 30 kids to parties was just too costly.. school has a totally understandable policy that they will facilitate party invites only in these three circumstances

    the entire class
    all the boys
    all the girls

    otherwise the party is a private matter

    so the mums have decided that parties are all girls or all boys..

    sucks but there you go...


    We've a small class size so it's not that. In infants they all got invited but I was told the gender division got instigated a few years ago by a local mum who only had boys so "wouldn't know what to do with girls at a party". :confused: She omitted all the girls then other parents planning their respective parties followed suit. I'm past the party stage now as the young guy prefers a day out with his two besties rather than a party, but it's mad how one woman's gender bias has reverberated around the neighbourhood and entire school.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    Very interesting website below.

    www.pinkstinks.org

    My daughter hated pink. Not kidding. I painted her bedroom pink once, and she refused to sleep in it until I repainted it (yellow). :o

    Finding clothes was not always easy.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Victor wrote: »
    My brother and his wife noticed something with their 3 year old. While she understands breastfeeding, her doll always get fed with a bottle and never gets breastfed.

    I do not think there is much complex going on there. Children tend to mimic what they see. Bottle feeding is something we see in the media and around us. Breast feeding not so much - for whatever reasons people have an issue with it.

    I have seen some children doing the breast feeding with their dolls. I think it is rare solely because they see less of it. But there is also the issue the children lack the requisite protrusions shall we say. They might have nipples but they do not have breasts. And children tend to work with what they have.

    So I would not read too much into it - and certainly not about a child's ability to envision themselves as a grown up. I would say it is rare it has anything to do with that.
    Victor wrote: »
    Yes, I appreciate she is only 3, but perhaps people should use more thoughtful and less stereotypical phrases.

    I see no reason to be worried about those phrases. If you are using one kind of phrase to the exclusion of others then by all means worry about that. If you are giving a child a sense of value based only on their appearance that is probably not great. But praise and guidance is not mutually exclusive you can include it in a useful whole - rather than take the scalpel and cut some stuff out entirely.

    I think for me an issue worth thinking about more than then one you raised - is that of praise and responses in neutral or even failure situations. Rather than lavish praise and congratulations on a child solely when they do something great or look great or the like - I also try to become engaged and energetic and supportive and upbeat and excited about situations less positive for them.

    Errors and failures are a great example. When something they are doing or working on goes wrong I try to jump in and take a "Well what can we learn from this situation" approach or "Ok this has not gone the direction you want - so what can we make out of it now?". I think I instil in them a strong sense that a failure or less than ideal situation is always a learning opportunity a growing opportunity or a chance to shoot off in a new direction.

    Coupled with then later returning to the thing they failed at later and trying it again and getting there in the end - I think it gives a useful overall effect on the child than merely praising the good and the pretty and the successful.

    I see so many children working on something and flinging it down in tears and frustration when it is not working and giving up on it and storming off. And the awful platitudes some parents then use to cheer the kid up again - usually in the form of sugary food. Whereas I think you can bring children to a place when it goes wrong they start saying things like "What can I do with this now instead" or "Where did it start going wrong - I will get it next time!" and trying again.

    I also try not to praise just for praise sake. I have never at all bought into this thing of giving trophies and medals to people just for taking part for example. The idea that the best winners and the worst losers and everyone in between get the same medal just for showing up - has never really seemed a useful move to me. Though I am sure the idea comes from a good place and is well intentioned.


  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Midster


    For heavens sake!!!! Stop being such a snowflake!!!

    All kids really want is guidance and praise, it really doesn’t matter in what form it comes, fact every parent is different is what makes us all different.

    There seems to be a great push these days to push parents into all being the same, all treating there kids the same. I have to be honest, it makes me feel sick inside.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    AulWan wrote: »
    Very interesting website below.

    www.pinkstinks.org

    My daughter hated pink. Not kidding. I painted her bedroom pink once, and she refused to sleep in it until I repainted it (yellow). :o

    Finding clothes was not always easy.

    My daughter (6) refuses point blank to wear "girl" clothes full stop. She was always more interested in more boyish toys and so on. I just leave her be, what's the harm. There's not a snowballs chance she'd wear pink, or sleep in a pink room either:D:D


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,278 ✭✭✭mordeith


    My youngest fella loves pink. He also loves typically 'boy' things. All this gender stuff is nonsense (I mean the stereotypes and the gender neutral brigade). Just raise your kids to be confident, good people who don't fall apart at hearing a good joke.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,015 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Midster wrote: »
    For heavens sake!!!! Stop being such a snowflake!!!

    All kids really want is guidance and praise, it really doesn’t matter in what form it comes, fact every parent is different is what makes us all different.

    There seems to be a great push these days to push parents into all being the same, all treating there kids the same. I have to be honest, it makes me feel sick inside.

    Exactly. Give them praise and encouragement for doing something correct, and discipline them appropriately when they do something wrong.
    Boundaries are as important as encouragement and praise.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    mordeith wrote: »
    My youngest fella loves pink. He also loves typically 'boy' things. All this gender stuff is nonsense (I mean the stereotypes and the gender neutral brigade). Just raise your kids to be confident, good people who don't fall apart at hearing a good joke.

    I think the best thing you can teach your kids is to just not be an arsehole, regardless of anything else. Think of how much better the world would be if all the arseholes just dissapeared!


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,458 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    mordeith wrote: »
    My youngest fella loves pink. He also loves typically 'boy' things. All this gender stuff is nonsense (I mean the stereotypes and the gender neutral brigade). Just raise your kids to be confident, good people who don't fall apart at hearing a good joke.

    Funny thing is, historically pink is a boys color.

    Go back in history and red was seen as a man's uniform in the British Empire (military uniform), so pink was seen as a boys color as a natural extension of that.
    mordeith wrote: »
    Just raise your kids to be confident, good people who don't fall apart at hearing a good joke.

    ...and not to fall apart and call people snowflakes because another person has a different viewpoint to you :D


  • Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    Midster wrote: »
    For heavens sake!!!! Stop being such a snowflake!!!

    All kids really want is guidance and praise, it really doesn’t matter in what form it comes, fact every parent is different is what makes us all different.

    There seems to be a great push these days to push parents into all being the same, all treating there kids the same. I have to be honest, it makes me feel sick inside.


    I haven't experienced any pushing towards conformity at all. We guide our child the way that we feel suits us and while there's a few excellent parents in our families that have trod the path ahead of us who are great for bouncing questions off regarding whatever milestone or issue that comes up, we ultimately do what we feel is best.


    But recognising that the way we speak to our children matters isn't being snowflakey. The way that we might have an inbuilt unconscious gender bias based on how we were reared can rub off - and I see it amongst other parents as well. Someone on my facebook shared a meme once that said "the way you speak to your child becomes their inner voice" and while I rolled my eyes a bit at it, I recognised a bit of truth in it based on my own experiences so I try to keep it in mind.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Midster


    Neyite wrote: »
    I haven't experienced any pushing towards conformity at all. We guide our child the way that we feel suits us and while there's a few excellent parents in our families that have trod the path ahead of us who are great for bouncing questions off regarding whatever milestone or issue that comes up, we ultimately do what we feel is best.


    But recognising that the way we speak to our children matters isn't being snowflakey. The way that we might have an inbuilt unconscious gender bias based on how we were reared can rub off - and I see it amongst other parents as well. Someone on my facebook shared a meme once that said "the way you speak to your child becomes their inner voice" and while I rolled my eyes a bit at it, I recognised a bit of truth in it based on my own experiences so I try to keep it in mind.

    If it’s a girl who likes being girly then let her be, if she behaves more boyish, then let her be. If it’s a boy who’s boyish then let him be, if he’s a boy who displays more feline traits then let him be.

    There really doesn’t need to be a mass discussion on this. It’s obvious.

    The only place I draw the line is to bring up your child as genderless. Or encouraging duel gender beliefs.

    And there seems to be a lot of weight right now behind new parents, or parents to be, buying genderless clothing, toys etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,069 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Funny thing is, historically pink is a boys color.

    Go back in history and red was seen as a man's uniform in the British Empire (military uniform), so pink was seen as a boys color as a natural extension of that.



    ...and not to fall apart and call people snowflakes because another person has a different viewpoint to you :D

    Boys also used to wear dresses until toilet trained. I'm not sure why that stopped, makes sense.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,891 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    lawred2 wrote: »
    Are you claiming that it's an either or situation? that people only think to comment on the dress and never the efforts and achievements? Can it not be both?

    Of course it can be both but I have noticed it tends to be moreso on their 'lovely dress' or 'sparkly shoes' or whatever.

    It's not a big deal as a once off, but when you notice it again and again as a parent, you do start to see how strongly the stereotypes are entrenched in us, and we don't even notice.

    Whereas my boy is always referred to as 'a big strong fellow', and isn't it 'great that he's into everything' (that was the most recent one I got as I was preventing him from dismantling a shelf in a shop!!!) And 'look at the little prince there in the buggy'.

    It makes me wonder, is all.


  • Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    Midster wrote: »
    If it’s a girl who likes being girly then let her be, if she behaves more boyish, then let her be. If it’s a boy who’s boyish then let him be, if he’s a boy who displays more feline traits then let him be.

    There really doesn’t need to be a mass discussion on this. It’s obvious.

    The only place I draw the line is to bring up your child as genderless. Or encouraging duel gender beliefs.

    And there seems to be a lot of weight right now behind new parents, or parents to be, buying genderless clothing, toys etc.


    I agree with letting them be who they want, but it's frustrating that toys and clothes are far more gendered now than they were when I was a kid in the 80s. Even lego has 'boy' and 'girl' versions and it's lego ffs. Another example - we love watching the bake off together, but if my son wants a toy baking set for example it's almost impossible to get one that isn't predominantly pink or overly girly which he'll reject because pink = girly. (he didn't learn that from us, but from his peers at school) So then he misses out on a toy because someone in the design department decided that baking = female. And it reinforces for him that baking =female and so on...


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,458 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Midster wrote: »
    If it’s a girl who likes being girly then let her be, if she behaves more boyish, then let her be. If it’s a boy who’s boyish then let him be, if he’s a boy who displays more feline traits then let him be.

    There really doesn’t need to be a mass discussion on this. It’s obvious.

    But its not really,
    So so many parents and people comment when a girl plays with tractors even now, so its certainly not as obvious as you like to make out.
    Even more comment if a boy wants to play with dolls.

    My wife previously worked in the child care industry for years and the amount of parents who would get upset if little Jimmy wanted to play with dolls or little Mary wanted to be Batman was unreal.

    So while you may want to play things down and claim its obvious and a none issue its really not the case and enabling kids to play as they would like to play is still very much a challenge, both because of backward viewpoints or as Neyite pointed out above the extremely poor choice of toys due to pinking up toys that both male and females should be able to enjoy equally.

    And there seems to be a lot of weight right now behind new parents, or parents to be, buying genderless clothing, toys etc.

    Whats wrong with genderless toys? I grew up with Lego, there was no such thing as pink girly lego back then...it was just lego for kids.
    I got into lego because my sisters had lego but none of it was girly or pink but as time went on that changed.

    Pushing very specific gender toys outside of dolls/prams to girls is a pretty recent thing.

    For example, look at lego advertising in the 50/50/60/70 and even 1980's
    495123.jpg



    Versus Lego advertising now
    495124.jpg

    A very sad backward step, now there's boy and girls lego and its a extremely backward bad step.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,278 ✭✭✭mordeith


    Midster wrote: »
    if he’s a boy who displays more feline traits then let him be.

    I'm sorry but I'd draw the line at my son wanting to be a cat.


  • Registered Users Posts: 78,234 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Midster wrote: »
    if he’s a boy who displays more feline traits then let him be.
    !


  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Midster


    Come on guys, you know what word I meant, dam this autocorrect bull s**t! Pmsl :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    Lego should go back to the old advertising! It was much better.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    There was a semi decent documentary on Netflix about Lego. They certainly made it sound like it would be hard to blame Lego for the changes. It simply was not selling to that demographic and they had to change to fit the demand.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Midster


    There was a semi decent documentary on Netflix about Lego. They certainly made it sound like it would be hard to blame Lego for the changes. It simply was not selling to that demographic and they had to change to fit the demand.

    I heard that too, apparently they were really struggling at one point and that’s why they started making films to make there brand more popular again.

    I really don’t get why they were struggling though, I mean, what’s not to like about Lego?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,331 ✭✭✭bladespin


    Midster wrote: »
    .

    I really don’t get why they were struggling though, I mean, what’s not to like about Lego?

    Loved it as a kid but tbh as a parent the pricing compared to other toys can be shocking. Though I think giving a child lego is literally investing in their future.


  • Registered Users Posts: 975 ✭✭✭decky1


    HEIGHTIST DISCRIMINATION, Mother of the lord Jesus What next.??????????


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    Midster wrote: »
    I really don’t get why they were struggling though, I mean, what’s not to like about Lego?
    Have you ever stood on a piece of lego? OMG the pain.... :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 78,234 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    AulWan wrote: »
    Have you ever stood on a piece of lego? OMG the pain.... :D
    In all my years, I've managed to never step on Lego.

    Duplo Czech hedgehog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_hedgehog

    495249.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Neyite wrote: »
    I agree with letting them be who they want, but it's frustrating that toys and clothes are far more gendered now than they were when I was a kid in the 80s. Even lego has 'boy' and 'girl' versions and it's lego ffs. Another example - we love watching the bake off together, but if my son wants a toy baking set for example it's almost impossible to get one that isn't predominantly pink or overly girly which he'll reject because pink = girly. (he didn't learn that from us, but from his peers at school) So then he misses out on a toy because someone in the design department decided that baking = female. And it reinforces for him that baking =female and so on...

    That pisses me off so much. I loved Lego as a child and being artistically-inclined, I loved the variety of colours of the lego pieces. I’d make patterns with the different colours. I hate the idea of little girls being given Lego in just one colour.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That pisses me off so much. I loved Lego as a child and being artistically-inclined, I loved the variety of colours of the lego pieces. I’d make patterns with the different colours. I hate the idea of little girls being given Lego in just one colour.

    I dunno. They still have regular Lego. They just have additional special kits aimed for girls (princess castles etc) and special kits aimed for boys (superhero etc).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    I dunno. They still have regular Lego. They just have additional special kits aimed for girls (princess castles etc) and special kits aimed for boys (superhero etc).

    If people buy them the themed stuff over multicoloured, then it’s a problem.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,331 ✭✭✭bladespin


    If people buy them the themed stuff over multicoloured, then it’s a problem.

    It's not, if it's what the child wants.

    Honestly I think some people are overthinking everything these days, by all means be aware of potential negative bias but forensically analyzing every little thing it too much.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    bladespin wrote: »
    It's not, if it's what the child wants.

    Honestly I think some people are overthinking everything these days, by all means be aware of potential negative bias but forensically analyzing every little thing it too much.

    If they are given gifts of the stuff, often there’ll be no choosing. And like I said, I was an artsy kid who loved colours. But I’m not sure I would have missed the multicoloured bricks if I wasn’t given them but getting the multicoloured bricks was enriching. I would have missed out by not getting them. I wouldn’t have figured out how to make all those complex symmetrical patterns otherwise. That would have been a real shame to not experience.


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