Catholic & Protestant Church interiors

bobbyss · 30-10-2017 4:49pm #1

Excuse my ignorance in this but if anyone can clarify. Catholicism was the main Christian religion in pre reformation England and therefore churches built at this time would have been Catholic churches. What are the main features of a Catholic church in terms of the buildings themselves? What happened all of these churches after the reformation?

I usually associate a protestant church with a pulpit accessed through winding spiral steps. The absence of statues? Do protestant churches have stained glass windows depicting what?

For example, Canterbury Cathedral would have been a Catholic cathedral pre reformation but now is a protestant cathedral.

What changes in its interior would have been made to reflect this?

Manach · 30-10-2017 5:15pm

The transition of a church from Catholic to Protestant depended on the context on the ground and how much of a Purtian influence was present. This would be from Henry VIIIs time to that of William of Orange, when religious fever died down. In many cases it was a gradual transition with very little changes in the architecture, except to remove any overt Catholic presense. In some cases, it was a Year-Zero style change, with coloured windows smashed,statues overturned and cyrpts emptied. To confuse things, the Anglican Church went through a Gothic phase around the time of the Regency and into Victorian time. The upshot was that many churches were retrofitted with features that were deemed by detractors as "Papist".
A good book on how to read the meanings and style of a church would be "How to read Churches" by Robert McNamara.

bobbyss · 30-10-2017 5:42pm

Manach wrote:

The transition of a church from Catholic to Protestant depended on the context on the ground and how much of a Purtian influence was present. This would be from Henry VIIIs time to that of William of Orange, when religious fever died down. In many cases it was a gradual transition with very little changes in the architecture, except to remove any overt Catholic presense. In some cases, it was a Year-Zero style change, with coloured windows smashed,statues overturned and cyrpts emptied. To confuse things, the Anglican Church went through a Gothic phase around the time of the Regency and into Victorian time. The upshot was that many churches were retrofitted with features that were deemed by detractors as "Papist". A good book on how to read the meanings and style of a church would be "How to read Churches" by Robert McNamara.

Thanks for that and the recommendation. I often wonder while looking at a church if it's possible to say whether its a Catholic or protestant one. Don't protestant churches have stained glass windows?

Full Marx · 30-10-2017 6:59pm

If the church is of historical significance and you are charged to go in you can sure its not a (current) Catholic one.

pedroeibar1 · 30-10-2017 7:56pm

bobbyss wrote: »

I often wonder while looking at a church if it's possible to say whether its a Catholic or protestant one.

Yes. Rule of thumb = generally Protestant churches do not have a crucifix on the spire.

Del.Monte · 30-10-2017 8:02pm

bobbyss wrote: »

Thanks for that and the recommendation. I often wonder while looking at a church if it's possible to say whether its a Catholic or protestant one. Don't protestant churches have stained glass windows?

They have stained glass windows. a lack of (scary) statues and lots of plaques commemorating war dead. If it looks very old chances are that it's a Protestant church - and cathedrals (Christ Church, St.Patrick's etc.) were the spoils of the Reformation. Thankfully in the 20th/21st centuries the Protestant community (excluding NI) generally hasn't had the need or the money to build any architectural monstrosities.

Ipso · 30-10-2017 9:52pm

Aren't Presbyterian churches supposed to be very bare, I w heard it's down to the first and second commandment (graven images etc).

L1011 · 31-10-2017 9:22am

European protestant churches that aren't Anglican are often very plain, US and African ones the exact opposite. You'll find some of the gaudiest things going in COI premises at times.

Jellybaby1 · 01-11-2017 2:01am

To confuse matters more, I have been in CoI churches which certainly have icons displayed. This is probably due to the fact that the leadership in the parish lean towards a more Catholic faith than Protestant, but that could be argued I guess. Its been discussed at length elsewhere here viz., Anglican Catholics / Catholic Anglicans. Hard to distinguish the difference in some churches. On the plus side, there is always a notice board at the entrances to churches which clearly states the religion of said church, so really its not necessary to over work the grey cells.

tabbey · 02-11-2017 2:47pm

In this country we tend to divide christian religion into Catholic v. non catholic.

Traditionally the Anglican congregation saw itself as catholic, the word just means universal or worldwide.
For this reason we should say Roman Catholic or Anglo Catholic.

Unfortunately the RC population take offence at being labelled RC, while the Anglican people have been conditioned by their neighbours into accepting the non catholic category thrust upon them.

If we were all a bit more christian, we would accept our neighbours self identity, but unfortunately historical prejudices survive just below the surface in many of us.

Another fact that most Irish do not appreciate, is that the Anglican churches can be High Church or Low Church. I was once at a High Church Mass in London, as a (Roman) catholic, I thought it was very similar to RC.

tabbey · 02-11-2017 2:52pm

Ipso wrote: »

Aren't Presbyterian churches supposed to be very bare, I w heard it's down to the first and second commandment (graven images etc).

The DLR lexicon library has been described as resembling a Presbyterian cathedral.

Odhinn · 02-11-2017 9:25pm

bobbyss wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance in this but if anyone can clarify. Catholicism was the main Christian religion in pre reformation England and therefore churches built at this time would have been Catholic churches. What are the main features of a Catholic church in terms of the buildings themselves? What happened all of these churches after the reformation?

I usually associate a protestant church with a pulpit accessed through winding spiral steps. The absence of statues? Do protestant churches have stained glass windows depicting what?

For example, Canterbury Cathedral would have been a Catholic cathedral pre reformation but now is a protestant cathedral.

What changes in its interior would have been made to reflect this?

Wall paintings painted over, statues and (often) shrines and tombs destroyed or removed.

It has to be said that the proliferation of statues, art and the rest isn't some canon of faith. Modern catholic churches I've been in are quite bare in comparison to older ones.

bobbyss · 02-11-2017 11:20pm

Odhinn wrote:

Wall paintings painted over, statues and (often) shrines and tombs destroyed or removed.

Why would tombs be destroyed/ removed?

splinter65 · 02-11-2017 11:22pm

bobbyss wrote: »

Thanks for that and the recommendation. I often wonder while looking at a church if it's possible to say whether its a Catholic or protestant one. Don't protestant churches have stained glass windows?

All Catholic Churches have Stations of the Cross in some form on the walls.
Protestant churches don’t do that.

the_pen_turner · 02-11-2017 11:39pm

stations of the cross in catholic churches
a lot more gold and marble in catholic churches
incense burners in RC
more integrated kneelers in RC

the_pen_turner · 02-11-2017 11:40pm

L1011 wrote: »

European protestant churches that aren't Anglican are often very plain, US and African ones the exact opposite. You'll find some of the gaudiest things going in COI premises at times.

in what way. iv always thought it the other way around

looksee · 02-11-2017 11:50pm

While unusual, it is perfectly possible for churches of the Anglican communion to have Stations of the Cross. 'High' Anglican churches also have incense and often quite elaborate decorations. As has been pointed out, 'low' Anglican churches can be as plain as a Methodist or Baptist chapel.

Odhinn · 02-11-2017 11:52pm

bobbyss wrote: »

Why would tombs be destroyed/ removed?

Iconoclasm. Anything along the lines of a shrine were targeted, and that included well decorated tombs in churches, afaik.

Avatar MIA · 02-11-2017 11:59pm

Ah, I thought all COI (I'm assuming all COI = Anglican) were classed as High Church.

looksee · 03-11-2017 12:09am

The Church of England and the Church of Ireland - and a large number of others around the world - are separate organisations but all of the Anglican Communion. High church refers to those Anglican churches that look and act almost like Roman Catholic churches, some of them call their services Mass. The only significant difference (afaik) is transubstantiation. At the other end of the scale are Anglican churches which are very plain and modest in appearance, and the services are much less complex while still using the same prayer book and doctrine.

Mancomb Seepgood · 03-11-2017 12:26am

High church parishes are quite rare in the Church of Ireland.An example of one would be St.Bartholomews in Dublin.Its far more common in the Episcopal Church in America,and in the Church of England,which actually has an organisation of clergy called the Society of Catholic Priests (Anglo-Catholic churches would be at the high end of the High church,with incense and statues).

Peregrinus · 03-11-2017 2:26am

The Church of Ireland is generally regarded as being on the lowish end of the spectrum, but with some spots that are higher (like St. Bartholemew's). But it's also generally regarded as a church that doesn't get steamed up about this. In some of the other churches in the Anglican communion, the low and high camps have at time been dismissive of, or hostile to, one another, or at any rate there has been tension and conflict along the low/high split. This happens very little, if at all, in the C of I. The C of I is therefore a very broad church; it can comfortably accommodate both low and high Anglicans without experiencing stresses as a result of that.

bobbyss · 03-11-2017 7:02am

Odhinn wrote:

Iconoclasm. Anything along the lines of a shrine were targeted, and that included well decorated tombs in churches, afaik.

Yes I thought something along those lines yet protestant places of worship have tombs e.g. Westminster Abbey is replete with same.

looksee · 03-11-2017 10:46am

One place where I lived in England - this was 50 years ago - had two CofE churches for some obscure historical reason. On was considered high - the congregation addressed the Vicar as 'Father' - and the other was low.

road_high · 03-11-2017 11:15am

the_pen_turner wrote: »

in what way. iv always thought it the other way around

Me too. COI chuches I've been in tend to be bare bones, no sense affairs. RC churches can be gawdy, big and ostentatious by comparison.

bobbyss · 03-11-2017 2:10pm

Del.Monte wrote:

They have stained glass windows. a lack of (scary) statues and lots of plaques commemorating war dead. If it looks very old chances are that it's a Protestant church - and cathedrals (Christ Church, St.Patrick's etc.) were the spoils of the Reformation. Thankfully in the 20th/21st centuries the Protestant community (excluding NI) generally hasn't had the need or the money to build any architectural monstrosities.

Yes I have noticed plaques commemorating war dead but what explains this? Why? More Irish RCs died in WW1 than protestants I would imagine yet no Catholic church has these plaques. Is there some connection between the military and the protestant church. Many officers for sure would have been COI for sure but I am sure more than officers are commemorated.

the_pen_turner · 03-11-2017 2:29pm

Think a lot if that is because the ones being remembered are the sons of the estate owners. As a result they had the money and "importance" to put up a monument.
Also loosing 2 or 3 very influential members of a congregation of 100 is a lot

Del.Monte · 03-11-2017 2:31pm

bobbyss wrote: »

Yes I have noticed plaques commemorating war dead but what explains this? Why? More Irish RCs died in WW1 than protestants I would imagine yet no Catholic church has these plaques. Is there some connection between the military and the protestant church. Many officers for sure would have been COI for sure but I am sure more than officers are commemorated.

I think that you will find the majority of plaques commemorate officers - presumably their families were able to afford to have them erected. There was no connection between the CoI and the military, but especially in WW.I. most of the Anglican community would have identified more closely with Britain and the King rather than with Ireland.

tabbey · 03-11-2017 5:20pm

bobbyss wrote: »

Yes I have noticed plaques commemorating war dead but what explains this? Why? More Irish RCs died in WW1 than protestants I would imagine yet no Catholic church has these plaques. Is there some connection between the military and the protestant church. Many officers for sure would have been COI for sure but I am sure more than officers are commemorated.

It is only RC churches in Ireland which fail to honour their war dead. This is because of the anti-British sentiment which haunted Ireland from 1918 onwards.

French and Belgians do not have that problem so rightly commemorate their dead in catholic churches.

bobbyss · 03-11-2017 5:24pm

Del.Monte wrote:

I think that you will find the majority of plaques commemorate officers - presumably their families were able to afford to have them erected. There was no connection between the CoI and the military, but especially in WW.I. most of the Anglican community would have identified more closely with Britain and the King rather than with Ireland.

Yes. I am thinking of St Nicholas' coi in Galway where there are many plaques. Next time I am there I must check them out. I recall being in a Catholic church neat Letterfrack and looking at a small wooden plaque (I think it was) to a local parishioner who died in 9/11. I was struck with how ornate the COI plaques were in St Nick's. Different worlds.

tabbey · 03-11-2017 5:32pm

the_pen_turner wrote: »

incense burners in RC
more integrated kneelers in RC

Anglican High Church have incense also, that is why they are known as the "bells and smells"branch.

Kneelers in churches have developed over time. When RC churches were developed in Ireland, largely from about 1790, money was scarce. Chapels would have had a rough floor at first, then depending on funding, tiled or timber floors, followed by seating. The padding on kneelers only date from the 1960s.

Lots of Anglican churches have kneelers, some with luxurious cushions. I suppose these are not integrated.

Catholic & Protestant Church interiors

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