No Time to Die Spoilers from post #1449 onward

Mr E · 15-07-2019 9:49am

Saw that this morning - to save a click:

While Daniel Craig is set to reprise his role as James Bond in the next film, the franchise is set for a shake-up, with reports claiming that black British actor Lashana Lynch has been cast as 007 – taking over Bond’s secret agent number after his character leaves M16.

w/s/p/c/ · 15-07-2019 10:13am

If these rumours are true, it's ridiculous. If they want a female spy film so bad, just give her a different agent code and introduce her in this film, with her own to follow. 007 will and always be James Bond!!!!!!!!

dastardly00 · 15-07-2019 10:18am

I'm thinking that maybe she (007) gets killed during the film and then Bond regains his 007 number by the end?

pixelburp · 15-07-2019 10:22am

"has been cast as 007"

What's the problem here? 007 is only a codename, and as the above post suggests if this is true, it's probably via an Inciting Incident of 007 getting KIA, necessitating the return of Bond for One Last Mission.

Dades · 15-07-2019 11:18am

I'm very uneasy about this.

What is the necessity to break the link between 007 and James Bond?

Speaking as a lifelong Bond fan, the two monikers have always been interchangeable. It's part of the brand; what has enabled the franchise to be recycled through six iterations. Bond has already stripped away a lot of what made it Bond, and not Bourne/M.I.

I don't care whether the new imposter 007 is black/white/male/female, they just better not separate Bond from his codename permanently. Whoever the next Bond is, the reboot better reset a lot of stuff.

pixelburp · 15-07-2019 11:24am

It's part of the brand yeah, but in-universe it's perfectly valid: how often across the films have we seen interchangeable 00 agents, either cannon fodder or the main bad guy?

Daniel Craig is getting older, and seems to be on record as thoroughly done with Bond. It's not a stretch for a script - if indeed that's what's being done - to have Bond start off as retired (again, something done before), with the new 007 killed in some fashion that requires Bond to re-assume the mantle.

Tony EH · 15-07-2019 11:39am

Dades wrote: »

I'm very uneasy about this.

It'll kill the franchise stone dead.

Not that I'd care, it's been rubbish for years, with a slight up tick during the Craig era.

But if it ended completely, I wouldn't shed any tears.

pixelburp · 15-07-2019 11:42am

Tony EH wrote: »

It'll kill the franchise stone dead.

Not that I'd care, it's been rubbish for years, with a slight up tick during the Craig era.

But if it ended completely, I wouldn't shed any tears.

James Bond won't end while its product placement effectively bankrolls the productions. It was always a 90 luxury brand advertisement back to the Connery era, but wasn't Spectre's production budget almost entirely based on brand sponsorship?

MisterAnarchy · 15-07-2019 11:43am

pixelburp wrote: »

"has been cast as 007"

Tony EH · 15-07-2019 11:45am

pixelburp wrote: »

wasn't Spectre's production budget almost entirely based on brand sponsorship?

Maybe. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

But either way, I cannot see James Bond's core audience flocking to a series with Jane Bond as the hero.

Dades · 15-07-2019 11:47am

pixelburp wrote: »

Daniel Craig is getting older, and seems to be on record as thoroughly done with Bond. It's not a stretch for a script - if indeed that's what's being done - to have Bond start off as retired (again, something done before), with the new 007 killed in some fashion that requires Bond to re-assume the mantle.

As you say say, we've already seen the Bond gone off the grid thing before - with the same Bond we currently have.

He resigns in Casino Royale. He's MIA presumed dead in Skyfall. Now he's retired and returns for duty in Bond 25? It's not even a novel idea that has his codename on some other agent.

I'll get over it, if it's a temporary separation. Which is unfortunate, as it'll end up with Lashana Lynch being a short-lived pawn in a pre-spoiled plot twist.

Dades · 15-07-2019 11:49am

Tony EH wrote: »

But either way, I cannot see James Bond's core audience flocking to a series with Jane Bond as the hero.

There's no suggestion that is even close to the reality. Craig is still Bond in Bond 25.

DrumSteve · 15-07-2019 11:52am

Tony EH wrote: »

Maybe. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

But either way, I cannot see James Bond's core audience flocking to a series with Jane Bond as the hero.

If that Jane Bond was say, Gillian Anderson, I could get behind that.

Tony EH · 15-07-2019 11:54am

Dades wrote: »

There's no suggestion that is even close to the reality. Craig is still Bond in Bond 25.

I'm talking about Bond 26...

While Daniel Craig is set to reprise his role as James Bond in the next film, the franchise is set for a shake-up, with reports claiming that black British actor Lashana Lynch has been cast as 007 – taking over Bond’s secret agent number after his character leaves M16.

pixelburp · 15-07-2019 12:19pm

Tony EH wrote: »

Maybe. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

But either way, I cannot see James Bond's core audience flocking to a series with Jane Bond as the hero.

Must dig that out, cos I'm fairly sure I read it re. one of the Craig Bonds, that between Tag Heuer, Tom Ford et al the budget was clawed back through endorsements alone. How much value these kind of 'luxury' aspirational have these days in such a consumerist society, swimming in credit is debatable, but probably beyond the scope of the thread

As to the 007 thing, well always worth remembering that Hollywood is perpetually a race to be second: there have been rumours of a MoneyPenny spin-off among others (heck IIRC Halle Berry was rumoured to get a spin-off until Die Another Day temp. killed off Bond but nobody seemed to be screaming then), and I daresay Sony / Eon are looking at these Shared Universes and trying to think how they could possibly do the same with the Bondverse. Even Fast & Furious are doing it FFS.

Jane Bond? Unlikely, but "Tales of 007" or somesuch is entirely possible and I'd put money on executives trying to find a path there. You're right about the "core audience", but the thing about cores is that they're not the biggest part of the whole.

Tony EH · 15-07-2019 12:28pm

pixelburp wrote: »

You're right about the "core audience", but the thing about cores is that they're not the biggest part of the whole.

True, but there are the source of the steady revenue and they are disregarded unwisely. Although I don't know how loyal or large the core audience is for Bond.

As I said though, I couldn't care less. In fact, part of me would love to see them try a Jane Bond and watch the meltdown. But that's a bit of schadenfreude on my part.

In saying that, the Craig era started off terribly well indeed ('Casino Royale' is great film), and really seemed to know where it was going.

Then 'Spectre' shit the bed.

Dades · 15-07-2019 12:30pm

Tony EH wrote: »

I'm talking about Bond 26...

You think this is a hand off? You're the only one it seems.

Whatever about a potential spin-off nobody has to go and see, it's been stated by the IP owners there'll likely never be a female Bond.

Tony EH · 15-07-2019 12:35pm

Dades wrote: »

You think this is a hand off? You're the only one it seems.

I've no idea. I'm going on this:

"While Daniel Craig is set to reprise his role as James Bond in the next film, the franchise is set for a shake-up, with reports claiming that black British actor Lashana Lynch has been cast as 007 – taking over Bond’s secret agent number after his character leaves M16."

pixelburp · 15-07-2019 12:36pm

Tony EH wrote: »

True, but there are the source of the steady revenue and they are disregarded unwisely. Although I don't know how loyal or large the core audience is for Bond.

As I said though, I couldn't care less. In fact, part of me would love to see them try a Jane Bond and watch the meltdown. But that's a bit of schadenfreude on my part.

In saying that, the Craig era started off terribly well indeed ('Casino Royale' is great film), and really seemed to know where it was going.

Then 'Spectre' shit the bed.

Aye, but then if the films are bankrolled on luxury brands, maybe box-office of any success is just that. It's hard to know and as you say, were 'James Bond' recast as anyone but a white British male, there'd be a meltdown. Idris Elba might get away with it in being already both a great actor & sex symbol, but yeah. The wailing would make Ghostbusters 2016 sound like a stubbed toe.

Oh and just on the spin-off thing, I was right: Halle Berry was meant to get a spin-off, and had already a writer / director attached:

https://ew.com/article/2003/10/27/mgm-nixes-halle-berrys-jinx-spinoff/

Though the same article said Bosnan was attached for a new film in 2005: Of course 2003 didn't have social media to accentuate the insecurities of everyone with an axe to grind, so presumably the uproar was confined to James Bond superfan fora

eviltimeban · 15-07-2019 1:44pm

It makes sense within the universe. I'm currently reading "Forever and a Day" by Anthony Horowitz, which is about a younger Bond taking over 007 from his predecessor (it's set in 1950 and is a great read if you like the Flemming books).

So if Bond 25 starts with James retired / not in M16 anymore, it follows on that someone else could be 007. Or 009, 013, it doesn't matter.

What they could be doing is preparing us for an "expanded universe" - no reason they can't franchise within the universe and have standalone movies around the whole 00 section, set in that universe. Would be great to see how other spies operate within M16. You can bet that if they do that, the likely first featured spy would be a woman. And why not?

speedboatchase · 15-07-2019 1:50pm

What a cool little story surprise that has been utterly spoiled and run without any spoilers in its headline whatsoever.

Baffled as how openly this is being reported.

Hande hoche! · 15-07-2019 1:55pm

Reports about the film makers CGI pasting Craig's onto a stunt man's body. Considering how ropey some of the special effects are on some Bond films, can imagine it being very jarring.

conorhal · 15-07-2019 1:56pm

eviltimeban wrote: »

It makes sense within the universe. I'm currently reading "Forever and a Day" by Anthony Horowitz, which is about a younger Bond taking over 007 from his predecessor (it's set in 1950 and is a great read if you like the Flemming books).

So if Bond 25 starts with James retired / not in M16 anymore, it follows on that someone else could be 007. Or 009, 013, it doesn't matter.

What they could be doing is preparing us for an "expanded universe" - no reason they can't franchise within the universe and have standalone movies around the whole 00 section, set in that universe. Would be great to see how other spies operate within M16. You can bet that if they do that, the likely first featured spy would be a woman. And why not?

I think that they've just run out of ideas. If you want to franchise and do something fresh, make it a fresh interpretation of Bond (but true to the character).

If I was in charge of the IP I think the best way to do that would have been to use the Bond anniversary to give a couple of respected directors a shot at a Summer and Christmas release with their own unique take.
Imagine if you could have convinced Quentin Tarantino to make a 60's period Bond and Christopher Nolan to do a contemporary one?
I reckon both would have jumped at the opportunity of they were given complete creative licence to do whatever they wanted with the character.

That would have been cool.

eviltimeban · 15-07-2019 2:28pm

conorhal wrote: »

I think that they've just run out of ideas. If you want to franchise and do something fresh, make it a fresh interpretation of Bond (but true to the character).

If I was in charge of the IP I think the best way to do that would have been to use the Bond anniversary to give a couple of respected directors a shot at a Summer and Christmas release with their own unique take.
Imagine if you could have convinced Quentin Tarantino to make a 60's period Bond and Christopher Nolan to do a contemporary one?
I reckon both would have jumped at the opportunity of they were given complete creative licence to do whatever they wanted with the character.

That would have been cool.

It would've been to confusing though; the general cinema goer wants to know who Bond is; there's a big cultural thing about "who is Bond" as there's only been a handful of them.

Having two different actors playing Bond in two different times would be too much for the average cinema goer.

Dades · 15-07-2019 2:29pm

I don't buy into a Bond universe whatsoever. For spinoffs or whatever.

The Bond franchise is built on one man - James Bond. It's present day, with no other trappings like dragons or people in capes. A Bond movie should involve a British spy (codename 007, licenced to kill) who is a bit of a maverick, uses cool gadgets and is a hit with the ladies.

Take Bond out of the Bond universe, and it's just a secret agent movie with no identity of its own.

At least the F&F franchise knows what it is - an ever increasingly daft buddy/crew movie with fast cars being the anchor. And their upcoming spinoff stars two of the series' big-name characters.

pixelburp · 15-07-2019 2:32pm

Dades wrote: »

I don't buy into a Bond universe whatsoever. For spinoffs or whatever.

The Bond franchise is built on one man - James Bond. It's present day, with no other trappings like dragons or people in capes. A Bond movie should involve a British spy (codename 007, licenced to kill) who is a bit of a maverick, uses cool gadgets and is a hit with the ladies.

Take Bond out of the Bond universe, and it's just a secret agent movie with no identity of its own.

At least the F&F franchise knows what it is - an ever increasingly daft buddy/crew movie with fast cars being the anchor. And their upcoming spinoff stars two of the series' big-name characters.

Oh, I don't disagree with anything you're saying, but YOU KNOW Hollywood executives are sizing up the Bondverse for attempted spin-offs. Doesn't matter whether it makes sense or not - the 'Dark Universe' didn't make sense, nor Justice League before the solo movies - but Sony/Eon want some long-term cheddar.

johnny_ultimate · 15-07-2019 3:13pm

Maybe I’m just jaded by the endless outrage of the Culture War (tm) but... having another 007 in this film makes, in theory, perfect sense? I mean the end of Spectre saw Bond abandon his job and head into early retirement. Would make narrative, logical sense for the 007 title to be recycled when it no longer belongs to Bond. Don’t see anything remotely controversial about another character having the title in the film if this is to directly continue the story of this version of Bond.

Again, all this with the disclaimer this is all rumour and speculation, and I don’t have much interest in this (or the series) beyond an intriguingly off-brand creative team. But can’t figure at all why there’d be any negative reaction to a narrative-driven alternative 007 popping up at some stage in a traditional Bond story.

Fan of Netflix · 15-07-2019 3:13pm

I thought Spectre was rubbish. This sounds crap also but I'll reserve judgement until I see it. I much preferred Brosnan, Moore and Connery. Craig has no charisma, there is no humour and various other problems such as poor villians.

Mitch Connor · 15-07-2019 3:20pm

Hande hoche! wrote: »

Reports about the film makers CGI pasting Craig's onto a stunt man's body. Considering how ropey some of the special effects are on some Bond films, can imagine it being very jarring.

Deep Fake stuff can be very realistic, especially if there isn't a need to show much human expression.

Sure look at Fast and Furious with the Paul Walker stuff, some of that face swapping was amazing, and that is a few years ago now. It was off in some scenes, but there were a couple - especially the one where the bomb goes off at the house and 'Brian' gets blown into the car, 100% not Paul Walker at all in that scene.

I'd have no concerns, if they are competent at all it should be unnoticable.

p to the e · 15-07-2019 3:58pm

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Deep Fake stuff can be very realistic, especially if there isn't a need to show much human expression.

Sure look at Fast and Furious with the Paul Walker stuff, some of that face swapping was amazing, and that is a few years ago now. It was off in some scenes, but there were a couple - especially the one where the bomb goes off at the house and 'Brian' gets blown into the car, 100% not Paul Walker at all in that scene.

I'd have no concerns, if they are competent at all it should be unnoticable.

Fast and Furious was not my first thought regarding Deep Fake.

No Time to Die **Spoilers from post #1449 onward**

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No Time to Die Spoilers from post #1449 onward