Planning issues - post them here MOD WARNING post #1

Ba$tard · 14-06-2005 10:00am #1

Hi All,

This question has probably been asked before (didnt find it in a search but..)

We currently in live in an area(our own house) close to my wife's parents house. A site which is A3 Zoned has come on the market and we would love to purchase it. It is about (as the crow flies) 400 meters East from my wife's family home. The problem is that ;

1) The A3 zone for this site is East of the site so would not include our current area where we live or my wife's family home.

2) A3 zoning stipulation is people in need of housing, or need to live in the area for extenuation circumstances.

The site has been on sale for a long time and obviously no takers from the A3 zone for the land. What would be the best way to approach the planning department to increase the chances of being able to purchase this land/possibly rezone/re-classify the land?

Does anyone have the link to the government A3 zoning law/guidelines? couldnt find it.

Thanks in advance....

muffler · 19-04-2007 12:48am

A lot of threads are getting dragged off topic (most times unintentionally) so we want to bring some order to the forum. If you have a query or gripe about planning matters post it here. If you have for example 2 queries - one on planning and one on construction/costs then split the queries and post them in the relevant threads.

MOD WARNING:

As there are a myriad of different queries in here... if you are replying to one, please quote the post you are replying or referring to.

sydthebeat

shesham · 19-04-2007 10:38pm

Does building at least 3 meters from boundary line apply to garages also? And if so, what happens if it's less than the 3 m (it's 3 meters in the west)?

How difficult would it be do you think to get changes on garage layout and actual location on site ok'd with council after planning approved? Bit of a slip made..
What happens if retention efforts are unsuccessful?

Thanks..

smashey · 19-04-2007 10:41pm

shesham wrote:

Does building at least 3 meters from boundary line apply to garages also? And if so, what happens if it's less than the 3 m (it's 3 meters in the west)?

How difficult would it be do you think to get changes on garage layout and actual location on site ok'd with council after planning approved? Bit of a slip made..
What happens if retention efforts are unsuccessful?

Thanks..

Have you applied for a minor amendment?

shesham · 19-04-2007 10:56pm

Can you apply for an amendment after garage is already up? We turned the garage around entirely on site. (basically it's a different garage from plans, we have no intention of using it for any other reason but as a garage)

Our site layout plan did not indicate distance of garage from boundary (thanks to guy who drew up plan - lame excuse at this stage ey!). Worst case scenario is? This is a once off home out the country and not for resale. What about the neighbours - looks like we may have some in the future, could they make an issue? ...Thank you.

smashey · 19-04-2007 10:57pm

In that case, you will have to apply for retention. If unsuccessful, they can make you knock it down.

muffler · 19-04-2007 11:34pm

shesham wrote:

What happens if retention efforts are unsuccessful?

You demolish it and just think of the expense involved in shifting all the rubble - it will cost you a small fortune.

Seriously I think that it should probably be Ok based on what your comments. Try for a minor amendment first of all and if that fails you can always apply for retention.

Just out of curiosity what size is the garage (including height) and how far from the boundary is it? Whats on the other side of the boundary at the moment?

The_Bullman · 20-04-2007 7:29pm

I'm about to apply for planning and will be doing so using local needs.

Would it affect my application if I were to apply with my girlfriends name also on the application, where she does not apply for local needs?

muffler · 20-04-2007 8:43pm

The_Bullman wrote:

I'm about to apply for planning and will be doing so using local needs.

Would it affect my application if I were to apply with my girlfriends name also on the application, where she does not apply for local needs?

If it was here in Donegal there wouldn't be a problem so long as one of the joint applicants can demonstrate needs for housing in the particular area.

It may vary from county to county so you should check with your architect/agent who should know. A quick phone call to your local planning office would also enlighten you.

Fredser · 22-04-2007 1:50pm

Howdy,

Anybody any experience of a successful planning application for an extension?

My specific question relates to the drawings required. I know that floor plans and elevations are obviously mandatory. But what about SECTIONS and specifications?

From browsing planning applications online some applicants have included sections and specifications whilst some have not.

Anybody any experience of this ?

Thanks in advance

F

tdiman · 22-04-2007 1:50pm

Hi all,

Hoping to build our home, starting later this year. Ideally would lke to be in it next year at some point.

1. Have a site, which is elevated from the road. We want to build a 2 storey house. How do we avoid / get around planning restrictions (which have become very limiting).
2. We have the layout of the house we want, what are the next steps? We wnt to avoid paying out a small fortune to an architect if there is little hope of getting the planning pemission.

All comments/ suggestions / answers are welcome.

TDI

muffler · 22-04-2007 2:44pm

Fredser wrote:

Howdy,

Anybody any experience of a successful planning application for an extension?

My specific question relates to the drawings required. I know that floor plans and elevations are obviously mandatory. But what about SECTIONS and specifications?

From browsing planning applications online some applicants have included sections and specifications whilst some have not.

Anybody any experience of this ?

Thanks in advance

F

Sections and spec should be included but not all planning authorities look for this. The spec. can be just the info on the plans - external finishes etc.

Ring your local planning dept. and ask them. There's usually a technician employed who checks and validates the applications when they are submitted so you could ask to speak to him/her.

muffler · 22-04-2007 2:45pm

tdiman wrote:

Hi all,

Hoping to build our home, starting later this year. Ideally would lke to be in it next year at some point.

1. Have a site, which is elevated from the road. We want to build a 2 storey house. How do we avoid / get around planning restrictions (which have become very limiting).
2. We have the layout of the house we want, what are the next steps? We wnt to avoid paying out a small fortune to an architect if there is little hope of getting the planning pemission.

All comments/ suggestions / answers are welcome.

TDI

Request a pre planning meeting with the local planner and discuss this. You will need a map of the site, a couple of elevations and a couple of levels

jayok · 24-04-2007 2:04pm

I'm not sure if this is the correct forum but I was looking for see if anyone could advise me in the best way to get planning permission for velux windows.

I've spoken to Dublin City Council and they have confirmed that I need planning permission for a velux window in the front of the house but not at the back. All the neighbours have these windows so I don't really see an objection.

However, looking at the planning application forms they seem horrendous for something so simply. I understand them if I wish to extend the house or build from scratch but for the installation of a window? They seem to suggest I need to get drawings, certification, etc. Is this a bit of overkill am I missing something?

Thanks.

muffler · 24-04-2007 11:54pm

jayok wrote:

I'm not sure if this is the correct forum but I was looking for see if anyone could advise me in the best way to get planning permission for velux windows.

I've spoken to Dublin City Council and they have confirmed that I need planning permission for a velux window in the front of the house but not at the back. All the neighbours have these windows so I don't really see an objection.

However, looking at the planning application forms they seem horrendous for something so simply. I understand them if I wish to extend the house or build from scratch but for the installation of a window? They seem to suggest I need to get drawings, certification, etc. Is this a bit of overkill am I missing something?

Thanks.

You will need plans, maps etc together with the usual newspaper and site notices. I know its a pain in the arse but you will have to go through the procedure. Its fairly basic stuff so get someone thats handy with a pen or pencil or PC

Im moving this to the sticky on planning

shesham · 25-04-2007 10:29am

Muffler:

In response to your questions, the garage we got planning permission for was a 30 x 38ft and 17'8" from finished floor, and the garage we built is 26 x 34ft and 17'3" high, though we have two windows and a door on boundary side. Front corner of garage is 3 metres from boundary and the back corner is about 2.5metres. There is no house on the site next to us and a guy has applied for planning on the site the other side of that site...there could be plans for a house sometime in the future though. We will be planting deciduous trees straight away. Perhaps they would not make too much of an issue, maybe have us put in obscure glass...what do you think? Thanks.

muffler · 25-04-2007 12:16pm

shesham wrote:

Muffler:

In response to your questions, the garage we got planning permission for was a 30 x 38ft and 17'8" from finished floor, and the garage we built is 26 x 34ft and 17'3" high, though we have two windows and a door on boundary side. Front corner of garage is 3 metres from boundary and the back corner is about 2.5metres. There is no house on the site next to us and a guy has applied for planning on the site the other side of that site...there could be plans for a house sometime in the future though. We will be planting deciduous trees straight away. Perhaps they would not make too much of an issue, maybe have us put in obscure glass...what do you think? Thanks.

I would run with the minor amendment angle. Give them a copy of the revised plans showing the windows and the reduced overall sizes. Give them a site layout plan specifying the distances from the boundary and show the proposed tree planting. You could do all this yourself which will save you a few bob.

Submit a covering letter outlining these points and word it in such a way that the works are not necessarily underway or completed. Personally I wouldnt see a problem with it but its down to the individual planner. You could give all the documents to your local councillor and ask them to look after it - it helps to go this route some times.

cue · 02-05-2007 4:22pm

Looking for clarity on a few things here. We are going to apply for planning permission and have our local needs form ready to go with supporting documentation. Our architect says we do not actually need to submit this until the planners ask for it. Others tell us that if we do not submit the local needs straight away then it will annoy the planners. Also, the architect tells us that the planners will not like our plan to have windows in the gable walls facing our neighbours (all family), but we need to get light into the rooms and the neighbours do not mind. They also have windows in their gable walls. What you think?

smashey · 02-05-2007 4:53pm

Submit the local needs documentation with the application. This will stop the planners from seeking FI (further information) during the application process.

Regarding the windows in the gable, why not submit the application with them included? If the planners don't like them, they can put it as one of the conditions of planning that the windows be omitted. Bear in mind that privacy issues will come into the equation.

muffler · 02-05-2007 6:04pm

smashey wrote:

Submit the local needs documentation with the application. This will stop the planners from seeking FI (further information) during the application process.

Regarding the windows in the gable, why not submit the application with them included? If the planners don't like them, they can put it as one of the conditions of planning that the windows be omitted. Bear in mind that privacy issues will come into the equation.

Agreed

smashey · 02-05-2007 10:20pm

muffler wrote:

Agreed

Thank you. Tis nice to know we sing from the same hymn sheet every now and then.

muffler · 02-05-2007 10:39pm

smashey wrote:

Thank you.

No need for that at all - just buy me a few smirnoffs the next time you see me in Lifford

Mac p · 09-05-2007 9:37pm

I am thinking of buying a site with a 5 year clause " stating that the named site owner must build and reside in the property for 5 years" does anyone know about this clause? also what is the worst that can happen if we agree to buy and build on the site given that the planning will be in the previous owners name? I understand the bank may have a problem but as I am selling in the city, may not need to borrow or possibly under 50k.

muffler · 09-05-2007 11:05pm

Mac p wrote:

I am thinking of buying a site with a 5 year clause " stating that the named site owner must build and reside in the property for 5 years" does anyone know about this clause? also what is the worst that can happen if we agree to buy and build on the site given that the planning will be in the previous owners name? I understand the bank may have a problem but as I am selling in the city, may not need to borrow or possibly under 50k.

The problem you will have is that there is an occupancy clause in the PP which is normally registered as a burden on the deeds of the property. Its a Section 47 agreement and is quite restrictive. Mortgage or no mortgage your solicitor will look for a copy of the planning and when they see the clause they are legally bound to include the details on the registration of the property.

I have known the odd solicitor who *** cough*** forgot to include something or other. If you feel you know your solicitor well enough to discuss the matter on a personal, unofficial capacity then perhaps thats one way of approaching the problem.

Can you show any family connections to the area or perhaps its an area that you or your spouse/partner will be working in? - sometimes that can be an exemption from the Section 47 but you would need to check the housing policy of the County Development Plan for the County you intend moving to.

Best advice at this stage is to have a quick talk with the planner by phone. You dont have to say who you are or what your circumstances are - you can always say you are calling on behalf of a family member or mate. At least you will have the official explanation on it that way.

Other people who can assist are planning consultants and on the odd occasion the local councilor or TD.

mad m · 09-05-2007 11:58pm

Got refused planning well partly,getting a double extension but with a step back on the first floor,my attic conversion which would of been a dormer was deemed to be over bearing plus my garage out back was also omitted because of over bearing. Not to the fact my neighbour two doors down has a 1000square foot garage/business and if that aint over bearing I dont know what is.Also the front Velux's were omitted...And atleast two people on my road have Velux's to front on my side of road...

Now Im wondering, got in contact with DCC planning and got the name of fella who is dealing with our plans and who partly refused us until re-advised plans are submitted. I'm actually going to be in Civic offices tomorrow and I wonder would it be a good idea to contact fella and talk to him about it or just go through my Architect? My Architect wasn't that forth coming with information and help to day I might add...

Reason was:To compy with Dublin city development plan 2005-2011 zoning objective and development standards subsection 15.9.14 to reduce over bearing impact&protect residental amenities and pattern of development in the area....and so on...

I have to say that every house up and down my road is a different kettle of fish,plus I have no one over looking me out the back which there is a laneway!!!

muffler · 10-05-2007 12:26am

mad m wrote:

Now Im wondering, got in contact with DCC planning and got the name of fella who is dealing with our plans and who partly refused us until re-advised plans are submitted. I'm actually going to be in Civic offices tomorrow and I wonder would it be a good idea to contact fella and talk to him about it

By all means talk to him. Doubtful if he will change his mind but it has been known to happen. Tell him that you were running with established development patterns in the locality i.e. velux roof lights that other people have.

I wouldnt mention anything about the neighbour having the large extension with the business as he will assume that you are reporting the matter or at best just throwing it up in his face which will put you offside with him.

A bit of pleading and groveling works at times - tell him the other half is set on this particular design and will want to sell up and move if its not granted or at least an agreed revised design granted. Spin him the yarn of your life - nothing to loose

secman · 10-05-2007 9:29am

Mac P,

I presume the Section 47 applies to the ultimate owner , the person who builds the house, ie you when you buy it and build.

I bought a site with OPP and one of the conditions was a Section 47 for 5 yrs. When I got FPP and bought the site the Section 47 then applied to me ,the owner. This is a common situation.

Secman

Mac p · 10-05-2007 7:47pm

There is an occupancy clause which is applied to the current owner of the site who has the outline pp, the only escape seems to be if owner cannot pay the mortgage and has to sell.
my wife and I are moving back to the area after 20 years away and both have strong ties to the area. the current owner will only allow the full planning to be submitted in his name in case we are refused. good advice says "dont go there" but we both love the site. are we mad to take the chance? am I right in saying that the worst case scenario is that we cannot sell within the 5 years.?

muffler · 10-05-2007 7:56pm

Every county has its own development plan and the conditions can vary. From what you are saying you should have a reasonable chance. If the situation was here in Donegal what would happen is that the owner (or son) can apply for and get the permission. The site can then be sold to someone who would have been entitled to get the planning permission in the first instance.

So in your case, if you can show "roots" in the area and a need for a house then there should be no reason why the site cant be sold to you with PP on it. The same thing would apply if this happened and you wanted to sell the house in say 3 years from now, you would be entitled to sell to someone who is "eligible".

Ring the local planning officer and explain the case. He/she will tell you what the requirements are. Alternatively engage a local planning consultant.

Mac p · 11-05-2007 9:24pm

Thanks for you advice, it sounds sensible.

amanda_02 · 16-05-2007 3:12pm

Hi,

anyone got any ideas of requirements when it comes to applying for PP on a site zoned local needs? I have tried the council & they want formal meetings, I would like to get a heads up on what they require before I go to speak with them - thanks.

Planning issues - post them here MOD WARNING post #1

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