Irish Championship 2020

Joedryan · 08-08-2020 3:53pm

I would have gone for the benko reversed instead of the modern benoni reversed if i was stephen but just a personal preference i suppose. All depends how the middlegame develops.

sodacat11 · 08-08-2020 8:02pm

Looks like Stephen missed his good chance of a win with Rxe8, not quite as bad a let off as Killian's blunder yesterday. I think it must be the masks that is causing this uncharacteristic play by such good players.

RooksPawn · 08-08-2020 10:40pm

Final round pairings see Sam O'Collins for once not playing on board 9; I suppose this means he has agreed to play this must-win game on a single board? If so maybe he thinks the double-board system affected his performance?
So in board order, with cumulative scores:

Daly (6.5) v O'Donnell (5.5)
Brady (5) v Sam Collins (6.5)
S. Melaugh (4.5) v Tom O'Gorman (6)
Tarun K (5) v Murray (4.5)
Fitzsimons (4.5) v Flynn (4.5)
Adam COllins (4.5) v Trisha K (4.5)
Wallace (4.5) v O'Connell (4.5)
Venkatesan (4) v G. Melaugh (4)
Peoples (3.5) v Leon Putar (4)
Lara Putar (3.5) v Alice O'Gorman (3.5)
Lyons (3) v Carroll (3.5)
Byrne (2.5) v Casey (3)
Mirza (2.5) v Moran (3)
Jackson (2.5) v MacElligott (1.5/7)

So there are four players who could win or share the title.
Odds somewhat favour Daly as he is the only one of them to have the White pieces and luck seems to be on his side.
He has scored 1.5 points from two probably lost positions in the last two rounds, though today White probably missed only one clear-cut chance. At move 24, according to the engine, Brady should have played 24 Rxe8+! Kxe8 25 Bxf7+ forcing Kd7 and then 26 Bxg6 with two pawns and a very strong position for the exchange.
Tom O'Gorman, though, has a sporting chance of being joint champion since on paper he has an easier pairing than his rivals.

The round should make exciting viewing and remember the games start at 1230.

zeitnot · 08-08-2020 11:54pm

RooksPawn wrote: »

So there are four players who could win or share the title.
...
Tom O'Gorman, though, has a sporting chance of being joint champion

Nobody can share the title or be joint champion--change in system starting with the 2018 championship. See https://www.icu.ie/articles/670, fourth section down.

The title goes by the head-to-head results, and if those don't decide, then a 2-game rapid playoff match between two players, chosen via the head-to-head results.

In the present case, the possible ties and outcomes are (I think!--corrections welcome):

Collins, Daly tie -> playoff
Collins, O'Gorman tie -> O'Gorman champion
Collins, Daly, O'Gorman tie -> O'Gorman champion
Collins, Daly, O'Donnell tie -> Collins champion
Daly, O'Gorman tie -> playoff

One implication is that while Conor O'Donnell has a chance of finishing equal first, he is out of the running for the title, even via a playoff.

zeitnot · 08-08-2020 11:59pm

... and one more possibility

Collins, Daly, O'Donnell, O'Gorman tie -> O'Gorman champion

Joedryan · 09-08-2020 2:10am

zeitnot wrote: »

Nobody can share the title or be joint champion--change in system starting with the 2018 championship. See https://www.icu.ie/articles/670, fourth section down.

The title goes by the head-to-head results, and if those don't decide, then a 2-game rapid playoff match between two players, chosen via the head-to-head results.

In the present case, the possible ties and outcomes are (I think!--corrections welcome):

Collins, Daly tie -> playoff
Collins, O'Gorman tie -> O'Gorman champion
Collins, Daly, O'Gorman tie -> O'Gorman champion
Collins, Daly, O'Donnell tie -> Collins champion
Daly, O'Gorman tie -> playoff

One implication is that while Conor O'Donnell has a chance of finishing equal first, he is out of the running for the title, even via a playoff.

Interesting. It was always the case that two players shared the title.

When was this changed?

My own opinion if it aint broke dont try to fix it.

Edit . Well obviously 2018. But was this approved by the membership?

Seems a strange and unnecessary addition

zeitnot · 09-08-2020 2:38am

Joedryan wrote: »

Interesting. It was always the case that two players shared the title.

When was this changed?

My own opinion if it aint broke dont try to fix it.

2018. In place for the 2018 championship, made permanent at the 2018 AGM for all Irish championships.

Like the open versus closed debate, and the debate over minimum rating requirements, it's one of those things that has no right or wrong answer. For myself, having a shared title was a bit broken.

Joedryan · 09-08-2020 3:07am

zeitnot wrote: »

2018. In place for the 2018 championship, made permanent at the 2018 AGM for all Irish championships.

Like the open versus closed debate, and the debate over minimum rating requirements, it's one of those things that has no right or wrong answer. For myself, having a shared title was a bit broken.

Shared title was perfect imo. It never happened with me as it happened but there was the year i won with 8.5 out of 9 and fully expected Stephen to also get 8.5 but as it happened Tony Fox held him to a draw. To expect either of us to go to a playoff in those circumstances would be ludicrous imo.

The system has stood the test of time. Leave it be

Edit . But apparently its been changed. First I heard of it. Sounds very dodgy to my point of view

zeitnot · 09-08-2020 3:34am

Joedryan wrote: »

Shared title was perfect imo. It never happened with me as it happened but there was the year i won with 8.5 out of 9 and fully expected Stephen to also get 8.5 but as it happened Tony Fox held him to a draw. To expect either of us to go to a playoff in those circumstances would be ludicrous imo.

The system has stood the test of time. Leave it be

Edit . But apparently its been changed. First I heard of it. Sounds very dodgy to my point of view

Ah, now, Joe, this system was in place last year! You're surely not suggesting you took part in the championship last year without reading the terms and conditions fully? I refuse to believe that.

As to the merits, shared championships are the minority even in chess events, and are almost unknown in other competitive endeavours. We don't have shared English Premier Leagues, world snooker championships, Wimbledons, or All-Ireland hurling Championships. And we don't have joint world chess champions, ever. Not even joint world correspondence chess champions.

Even the Irish championship didn't allow that originally. (And only got into it by accident.) It's not a bit dodgy.

Joedryan · 09-08-2020 9:28am

zeitnot wrote: »

Ah, now, Joe, this system was in place last year! You're surely not suggesting you took part in the championship last year without reading the terms and conditions fully? I refuse to believe that.

As to the merits, shared championships are the minority even in chess events, and are almost unknown in other competitive endeavours. We don't have shared English Premier Leagues, world snooker championships, Wimbledons, or All-Ireland hurling Championships. And we don't have joint world chess champions, ever. Not even joint world correspondence chess champions.

Even the Irish championship didn't allow that originally. (And only got into it by accident.) It's not a bit dodgy.

You may be right. I certainly was unaware last year. A playoff is all very unsatisfactory in my view. A tie break even more so. Might as well toss a coin. I stand by my opinion! Aint broke dont fix.

sodacat11 · 09-08-2020 10:24am

Joedryan wrote: »

You may be right. I certainly was unaware last year. A playoff is all very unsatisfactory in my view. A tie break even more so. Might as well toss a coin. I stand by my opinion! Aint broke dont fix.

I agree about play offs and tie breaks. Blitz is no way to decide a classical chess tournament and with tie breaks it is just down to luck because a player has no control over who he/she plays or how his opponents score in other games. Deciding a tie on the individual result is also unfair as it favours the player with the white pieces. Also one player may have had five whites in the tournament compared to their rivals having five blacks.
In 2012 I was joint leader going into the last round with four others. I made it perfectly clear before the final game that in the event of me tying for the title I would not be taking part in any play offs. I would have tied the title on merit had I won so why should I have jeopardized that by playing blitz when I never play in any blitz or rapid tournaments? Also blitz greatly favours the younger players.
I don't see what is wrong with the title being shared by any amount of people. It wouldn't diminish the title in the least for the people involved and really it has feck all to do with anyone else.

sodacat11 · 09-08-2020 10:48am

zeitnot wrote: »

Ah, now, Joe, this system was in place last year! You're surely not suggesting you took part in the championship last year without reading the terms and conditions fully? I refuse to believe that.

As to the merits, shared championships are the minority even in chess events, and are almost unknown in other competitive endeavours. We don't have shared English Premier Leagues, world snooker championships, Wimbledons, or All-Ireland hurling Championships. And we don't have joint world chess champions, ever. Not even joint world correspondence chess champions.

Even the Irish championship didn't allow that originally. (And only got into it by accident.) It's not a bit dodgy.

You also don't have draws in snooker or tennis . Mostly the need for "A champion" is for commercial reasons and to satisfy the public. If after a long gruelling event a few players are tied then it is only right that they should share the honour and the title. If two or three players dead heated in the Olympic marathon would you have them play off in a fifty metre sprint or decide who the winner is on who covered the last five kilometres in the quickest time? It would be ridiculous that if Conor O'Donnell beats Daly today with Black and ties first that he cannot win the title.

corkcitychess · 09-08-2020 11:22am

I make Colm slight favourite to be Irish champion going into the last round. He has White against O'Donnell....very good chance of winning whereas Brady has white against Collins.

forget the ratings...Collins has the much more difficult pairing with the black pieces.

Highly likely that his game will be a c3 Sicilian where Brady has masses of experience. I actually predict Brady will draw but maybe win (not lose).

cdeb · 09-08-2020 11:28am

sodacat11 wrote: »

I don't see what is wrong with the title being shared by any amount of people. It wouldn't diminish the title in the least for the people involved and really it has feck all to do with anyone else.

I'd echo this alright.

Though if it was passed at AGM, I guess at least it's clear and above-board where everyone stands today.

DancingSpaniel · 09-08-2020 11:36am

I predict neither Colm nor Stephen will win.

I'd predict Conor to win and Stephen-Sam to be a draw.

One other prediction: I probably have it wrong &#55357;&#56898;

EnPassant · 09-08-2020 11:36am

An armageddon blitz play-off using the 2-board system might be interesting ...

It doesn't apply this year, but if 3 players tied for first, with all 3 having drawn against each other, then the rules say that the 2 players to play in the play-off can be chosen by drawing lots. This makes absolutely no sense - what is the point of randomly selecting 2 out of 3 players for a playoff?

Is the purpose of the playoff to determine who gets the Olympiad place? If so, why not have the Championship shared, and have a playoff specifically for any non-monetary benefits of being champion.

Or why not have a simple tie-break based on the rating performance of the players in the tournament? This would at least have the benefit of being based on the players' performance during the event and would avoid using any quicker time-controls.

sodacat11 · 09-08-2020 12:30pm

Even in a strange year like this one (where, according to Spidersweb no self respecting players are playing, players cannot possibly give their best and it is a championship in name only) the Irish Championship with its generous time control, excellent playing conditions, limited entry, prestige and great history is a very special and unique tournament on our calendar and one which participants take very seriously. It is nine long days of attrition, no opponent is a pushover and most are very well prepared for each game. Every half point has to be earned and winning games is not easy even for the very best. Anyone who emerges at the end of the nine days as clear or even shared leader then fully deserves to be Irish Champion. If a three or four way tie proves to be an insurmountable task for the trophy engraver then tough.

RooksPawn · 09-08-2020 12:31pm

I see Sam is playing on double boards (board 9) after all, though his game was originally listed as board 2.

AND it isn't a 2 c3 Sicilian. Stephen opened 1 Nf3 so it's a sort of King's Indian Attack.
Daly-O'Donnell opened 1 d4 e6 and Daly seems to be taking his time on move 2 (or else the feed isn't working).
Tom O'Gorman's game is a symmetrical English.

Long dour battles in prospect.

If you want some early action to watch, Peoples v Leon Putar looks a good candidate.

cdeb · 09-08-2020 4:19pm

Tom doing his side of the bargain anyway.

Stephen with a decent edge over Sam, but a long way to go before it's decisive. Conor v Colm still quite level, but you can imagine neither will be thinking of draw offers for a while yet.

cdeb · 09-08-2020 4:26pm

And Tom has just won in fact. So he takes the lead on 7/9 and will win outright if Conor and Stephen both win. Computer now giving Stephen a big lead over Sam (+4 after move 25), but the chess24 computer is notoriously crap, so wouldn't necessarily trust that. Must have a look at the position.

zeitnot · 09-08-2020 4:32pm

cdeb wrote: »

And Tom has just won in fact. So he takes the lead on 7/9 and will win outright if Conor and Stephen both win. Computer now giving Stephen a big lead over Sam (+4 after move 25), but the chess24 computer is notoriously crap, so wouldn't necessarily trust that. Must have a look at the position.

Live commentary from Henry Li--see link on ICU page.

Joedryan · 09-08-2020 4:40pm

Has Tom O'Gorman finished on 7 now?

That might win it outright the way the games are looking. Drama.

Edit -Stephen is completely winning against Sam, and Conor O'Donnell it is hard to see how he will not win that ending also.

sodacat11 · 09-08-2020 4:42pm

Tom O'Gorman has largely gone unnoticed throughout the tournament with Collins and Daly setting the pace but he has come charging up the inside rail just when it matters.

sodacat11 · 09-08-2020 4:45pm

Usually in the last round of any tournament you get a lot of quick draws but fair play to everyone for all the fighting chess we are seeing today.

Joedryan · 09-08-2020 4:47pm

sodacat11 wrote: »

Usually in the last round of any tournament you get a lot of quick draws but fair play to everyone for all the fighting chess we are seeing today.

They might be regretting it now

sodacat11 · 09-08-2020 4:52pm

Daly dodged a bullet in previous games so anything could still happen.

cdeb · 09-08-2020 5:19pm

zeitnot wrote: »

Live commentary from Henry Li--see link on ICU page.

Course - in my mind, that was starting at 6:30, but that was for the 3pm starts...

Joedryan · 09-08-2020 5:42pm

Both games look as good as over to me.

macelligott · 09-08-2020 5:57pm

Clearly I‘m more suited to playing in the Major (under 1900) in a couple of weeks time - but they won’t let me :-(

Joedryan · 09-08-2020 5:58pm

It looks like Tom O'Gorman has it wrapped up. Will this be his first Irish?

Irish Championship 2020

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