So Patrick street is bus only from Thursday 9th August

beer enigma · 22-03-2018 11:25am #1

Seems to be a lot of mixed opinion as to whether its a good or bad thing. I know a lot of traders who are opposed to it whereas buses, taxis and cyclists seem delighted.

I'm concerned it could kill a lot of passing trade, but what are your thoughts ?

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/cork-city-car-ban-a-recipe-for-disaster-833706.html

22-03-2018 11:39am

What about motorcycles? I frequently use the motorcycle parking spots on Patrick Street.

cgcsb · 22-03-2018 11:42am

Great news. It'll be needed to form the central part of an improved bus and BRT netowork. The 15:00 to 18:30 window is pretty conservative though, that'll need to be extended in the future.

Dbu · 22-03-2018 11:49am

Cant wait to see where all the traffic coming from the west (washington St) will go when they are directed onto grand parade/south mall.
The whole idea sounds mad in my opinion

If they think that doing this will get the public to travel on a bus instead of driving they are wrong IMO.

beer enigma · 22-03-2018 12:13pm

traffic from Grand Parade directed through daunt square to the Quays

beer enigma · 22-03-2018 12:17pm

Deleted User wrote: »

What about motorcycles? I frequently use the motorcycle parking spots on Patrick Street.

worth asking, looks like buses, taxis and cyclists & emergency vehicles only.

deRanged · 22-03-2018 12:18pm

beer enigma wrote: »

traffic from Grand Parade directed through daunt square to the Quays

really? that used to be a pedestrian priority zone, I guess they're just giving up on that entirely now. it certainly won't handle the volume of traffic either.

cgcsb · 22-03-2018 12:35pm

Dbu wrote: »

Cant wait to see where all the traffic coming from the west (washington St) will go when they are directed onto grand parade/south mall.
The whole idea sounds mad in my opinion

If they think that doing this will get the public to travel on a bus instead of driving they are wrong IMO.

Traffic evaporation is what happens. This has been an observed phenomenon across the western world for about 20 years:

https://www.onestreet.org/resources-for-increasing-bicycling/115-traffic-evaporation

When you remove capacity for private cars in an urban area, modal shift occurs, because the diversion and lack of car capacity on that diversion presents an unattractive alternative. This has been observed in Dublin where car commuting is on a downward spiral and over the next few weeks and months there is going to be a serious squeeze on cars because the issue has been forced by the arrival of luas and subsequent pedestrianisation of College Green. Heaps of car capacity in Dublin City Centre will be handed over to 24hr bus lanes. cork won't be far behind.

Unlike Dublin, Cork is quite small, you can cycle from the City Centre to the N40 in 20 minutes, so banning cars isn't exactly going to mean a huge amount. If people are spending an hour driving to some Cork suburb, for what is equivalent to an hours walk or a 20 minute cycle, they need to re-examine their commuting habits.

Dbu · 22-03-2018 1:05pm

beer enigma wrote: »

traffic from Grand Parade directed through daunt square to the Quays

So a forty foot truck that turns left from Washington street has to go down the coalquay via the little junction outside Argos? Surely wont fit

Oafley Jones · 22-03-2018 1:26pm

Dbu wrote: »

So a forty foot truck that turns left from Washington street has to go down the coalquay via the little junction outside Argos? Surely wont fit

Commercial vehicles wouldn’t be included.

Dbu · 22-03-2018 2:01pm

Oafley Jones wrote: »

Commercial vehicles wouldn’t be included.

Unfortunately they are included, so no vans, trucks etc
only exemptions are
'Buses, taxis, emergency vehicles and bicycles'

j8wk2feszrnpao · 22-03-2018 2:06pm

beer enigma wrote: »

Seems to be a lot of mixed opinion as to whether its a good or bad thing. I know a lot of traders who are opposed to it whereas buses, taxis and cyclists seem delighted.

I'm concerned it could kill a lot of passing trade, but what are your thoughts ?

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/cork-city-car-ban-a-recipe-for-disaster-833706.html

It's tough to tell until it's trialed really.
All those that are delighted will have less traffic to deal with, who wouldn't be happy with that

We had a thread on it earlier, and a major concern is that the council are doing nothing to enforce it, they are leaving it to the Gardai (who are already stretched and have other things to focus on). So I can see plenty of people in cars or on motorbikes taking advantage of the reduced volume on Patrick St.
"Inspector Finbarr O’Sullivan of the Traffic Corps said gardaí will focus on raising awareness of the changes, rather than on enforcement, in the early stages."

The times doesn't make much sense either. 7 days a week? Is it really required on a Sunday? And it's just evening traffic, so won't help the bus services in the morning, not sure why it isn't at both rush hour times.

Funneling traffic down onto Cornmarket Street and St Pauls Ave is just gonna be mental in those pedestrian areas.

22-03-2018 2:08pm

munstermagic11 wrote: »

It's tough to tell until it's trialed really.
All those that are delighted will have less traffic to deal with, who wouldn't be happy with that

We had a thread on it earlier, and a major concern is that the council are doing nothing to enforce it, they are leaving it to the Gardai (who are already stretched and have other things to focus on). So I can see plenty of people in cars or on motorbikes taking advantage of the reduced volume on Patrick St.
"Inspector Finbarr O’Sullivan of the Traffic Corps said gardaí will focus on raising awareness of the changes, rather than on enforcement, in the early stages."

The times doesn't make much sense either. 7 days a week? Is it really required on a Sunday? And it's just evening traffic, so won't help the bus services in the morning, not sure why it isn't at both rush hour times.

Funneling traffic down onto Cornmarket Street and St Pauls Ave is just gonna be mental in those pedestrian areas.

In fairness motorbikes don't cause traffic congestion anywhere in Ireland and there is dedicated motorcycle parking on Patrick Street. Bikes shouldn't be included in this.

Cork Boy 53 · 22-03-2018 2:31pm

Deleted User wrote: »

In fairness motorbikes don't cause traffic congestion anywhere in Ireland and there is dedicated motorcycle parking on Patrick Street. Bikes shouldn't be included in this.

Well, the powers that be have decided otherwise. It remains to be seen how strictly these new regulations will be enforced though. I could see a fair few people flaunting them.

Cork Boy 53 · 22-03-2018 2:38pm

[QUOTE=munstermagic11;106507986

The times doesn't make much sense either. 7 days a week? Is it really required on a Sunday? And it's just evening traffic, so won't help the bus services in the morning, not sure why it isn't at both rush hour times.

Funneling traffic down onto Cornmarket Street and St Pauls Ave is just gonna be mental in those pedestrian areas.[/QUOTE]

That was mentioned in the link that you posted in the above quote.

"Banning private cars from the city’s main street was agreed in principle in 2012 as part of the Cork City Centre Movement Strategy — a multi-pronged plan to deliver one of the single largest overhauls of traffic flow in the city in over 50 years.
However, initial proposals for a 12.30pm to 6.30pm car ban were shot down by city councillors in 2015 amid concerns over the length of the car ban period.
A year later, they voted to proceed with a reduced three-and-a-half-hour evening ban."

j8wk2feszrnpao · 22-03-2018 2:39pm

Deleted User wrote: »

In fairness motorbikes don't cause traffic congestion anywhere in Ireland and there is dedicated motorcycle parking on Patrick Street. Bikes shouldn't be included in this.

Maybe not, but they are.
I guess, if you park there oin the morning, then you are entitled to leave, even in between the 3pm to 6:30pm timing?

j8wk2feszrnpao · 22-03-2018 2:41pm

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

That was mentioned in the link that you posted in the above quote.

"Banning private cars from the city’s main street was agreed in principle in 2012 as part of the Cork City Centre Movement Strategy — a multi-pronged plan to deliver one of the single largest overhauls of traffic flow in the city in over 50 years.
However, initial proposals for a 12.30pm to 6.30pm car ban were shot down by city councillors in 2015 amid concerns over the length of the car ban period.
A year later, they voted to proceed with a reduced three-and-a-half-hour evening ban."

No it's not. I spoke about the two rush hours, morning and evening. 12:30pm is the afternoon.

Cork Boy 53 · 22-03-2018 3:04pm

munstermagic11 wrote: »

It's tough to tell until it's trialed really.
All those that are delighted will have less traffic to deal with, who wouldn't be happy with that

We had a thread on it earlier, and a major concern is that the council are doing nothing to enforce it, they are leaving it to the Gardai (who are already stretched and have other things to focus on). So I can see plenty of people in cars or on motorbikes taking advantage of the reduced volume on Patrick St.
"Inspector Finbarr O’Sullivan of the Traffic Corps said gardaí will focus on raising awareness of the changes, rather than on enforcement, in the early stages."

The times doesn't make much sense either. 7 days a week? Is it really required on a Sunday? And it's just evening traffic, so won't help the bus services in the morning, not sure why it isn't at both rush hour times.

Funneling traffic down onto Cornmarket Street and St Pauls Ave is just gonna be mental in those pedestrian areas.

munstermagic11 wrote: »

No it's not. I spoke about the two rush hours, morning and evening. 12:30pm is the afternoon.

OK fair enough. Actually it was the OP who posted the link not you. My apologies.

whisky_galore · 22-03-2018 3:49pm

Dbu wrote: »

Unfortunately they are included, so no vans, trucks etc

How are they supposed to make deliveries during that time? Not every place has a back/side entrance.

Unless it's enforced, people will chance their arms and ignore it or plead ignorance.

Rooy · 22-03-2018 4:03pm

How is this being policed ? , is there a permament red light at the junctions ?

grogi · 22-03-2018 4:13pm

beer enigma wrote: »

Seems to be a lot of mixed opinion as to whether its a good or bad thing. I know a lot of traders who are opposed to it whereas buses, taxis and cyclists seem delighted.

I'm concerned it could kill a lot of passing trade, but what are your thoughts ?

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/cork-city-car-ban-a-recipe-for-disaster-833706.html

Passing trade? You cannot park there anyway, nobody was shopping there unless they went to town on purpose.

There will be no loss to city trade.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 22-03-2018 4:36pm

grogi wrote: »

Passing trade? You cannot park there anyway, nobody was shopping there unless they went to town on purpose.

There will be no loss to city trade.

I think he meant more that Patrick Street was an avenue to get to some of the City center car parks, in terms of passing trade (although I have seen plenty of people park there as well). I think the timing will hurt less, as less people may tend to enter the city at that time.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 22-03-2018 4:42pm

Rooy wrote: »

How is this being policed ? , is there a permament red light at the junctions ?

It's not being policed initally:
"Inspector Finbarr O’Sullivan of the Traffic Corps said gardaí will focus on raising awareness of the changes, rather than on enforcement, in the early stages."

http://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Patricks-Street-car-ban-to-begin-in-March-ced49c79-59d1-408e-b527-01944d457aed-ds
"There will be no physical barriers introduced to enforce the change as access will be maintained for public transport. CCTV is also in place on the street, though City Hall says this will not be used to monitor and target those who breach the new rules."

"Instead, signage will be rolled out as part of an information campaign in the coming weeks once dates are finalised."
Anyone see the informational campaign so far? Was in the city over the weekend and didn't notice anything.

Cork Boy 53 · 22-03-2018 4:49pm

munstermagic11 wrote: »

It's not being policed initally:
"Inspector Finbarr O’Sullivan of the Traffic Corps said gardaí will focus on raising awareness of the changes, rather than on enforcement, in the early stages."

http://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Patricks-Street-car-ban-to-begin-in-March-ced49c79-59d1-408e-b527-01944d457aed-ds
"There will be no physical barriers introduced to enforce the change as access will be maintained for public transport. CCTV is also in place on the street, though City Hall says this will not be used to monitor and target those who breach the new rules."

"Instead, signage will be rolled out as part of an information campaign in the coming weeks once dates are finalised."
Anyone see the informational campaign so far? Was in the city over the weekend and didn't notice anything.

Me neither. I was in the city centre including the Grand Parade/ Patrick St /Daunt Square areas for a few hours yesterday and no info whatsoever about this.

hufpc8w3adnk65 · 22-03-2018 5:15pm

So hang on they are banning commercial vehicles also? So delivery vans and things like that won’t be left? Also my company maintains 10/12 premises on Patrick’s street the fact I won’t be able to get access in my private van is crazy! Ban cars sure but banning commercial vehicles makes all the loading bays useless

TheChizler · 22-03-2018 5:23pm

I presume this has something to do with the bus lane which has replaced the left lane heading East on Washington Street?

whisky_galore · 22-03-2018 5:26pm

munstermagic11 wrote: »

It's not being policed initally:
"Inspector Finbarr O’Sullivan of the Traffic Corps said gardaí will focus on raising awareness of the changes, rather than on enforcement, in the early stages."

http://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Patricks-Street-car-ban-to-begin-in-March-ced49c79-59d1-408e-b527-01944d457aed-ds
"There will be no physical barriers introduced to enforce the change as access will be maintained for public transport. CCTV is also in place on the street, though City Hall says this will not be used to monitor and target those who breach the new rules."

"Instead, signage will be rolled out as part of an information campaign in the coming weeks once dates are finalised."
Anyone see the informational campaign so far? Was in the city over the weekend and didn't notice anything.

All in all, about as useful as an inflatable dartboard. :pac:

namloc1980 · 23-03-2018 6:45am

MrMac84 wrote: »

So hang on they are banning commercial vehicles also? So delivery vans and things like that won’t be left? Also my company maintains 10/12 premises on Patrick’s street the fact I won’t be able to get access in my private van is crazy! Ban cars sure but banning commercial vehicles makes all the loading bays useless

How do they manage in pedestrian zones all over the world? Grafton Street in Dublin for instance or even Oliver Plunkett Street in Cork?

j8wk2feszrnpao · 23-03-2018 7:55am

namloc1980 wrote: »

How do they manage in pedestrian zones all over the world? Grafton Street in Dublin for instance or even Oliver Plunkett Street in Cork?

Patrick St won’t be a pedestrian zone like Grafton St or OP St (with the barriers up), it’s just changed to a bus lane setup.

23-03-2018 4:53pm

MrMac84 wrote: »

So hang on they are banning commercial vehicles also? So delivery vans and things like that won’t be left? Also my company maintains 10/12 premises on Patrick’s street the fact I won’t be able to get access in my private van is crazy! Ban cars sure but banning commercial vehicles makes all the loading bays useless

You'll have to work around it

And that shouldn't be too difficult to be fair " with private cars banned from St Patrick’s Street between 3pm and 6.30pm seven days a week"

I reckon this will be very positive. A car free Patrick Street might well be great of an afternoon

Sonics2k · 23-03-2018 4:59pm

MrMac84 wrote: »

So hang on they are banning commercial vehicles also? So delivery vans and things like that won’t be left? Also my company maintains 10/12 premises on Patrick’s street the fact I won’t be able to get access in my private van is crazy! Ban cars sure but banning commercial vehicles makes all the loading bays useless

To be fair it's only between 3pm and 6pm. I'm sure you, much like most other companies, can arrange the deliveries be done outside those hours.

So Patrick street is bus only from Thursday 9th August

Comments