Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.
better off on benefits
Comments
-
Dreams:Knock up girlfriend asap. She'll get loan parents and a council house in a flash.
Move in on the QT as a cock lodger. After 10 years, get GF to buy house for max. discount with council loan. and sell/lease back to local authority.
Reality:
Knock up girlfriend asap. She'll get sole parents, and go on the council housing list. In the meantime, she had to rent privately in somewhere that costs less than the rent cap. Good luck finding that house, and coping with the damp etc.
Move in on the QT as a cock lodger. After two months, a nosy neighbour or religious elderly relative or jealous ex will report her to Welfare. (Yes, I've seen some typical letters these folks write.) Best case, she will have her sole-parents cut and you will have to suppport her. Worse case, she'll be charged with fraud, and you'll end up raising the child (on sole parents!) while she serves her sentence.
Lots of other possible scenarious the middle - but even if after 10 years, GF managed to to buy house for max. discount with council loan. and sell/lease back to local authority - where are you going to live then? 'Cos you wont' be eligible for council housing any more.0 -
OP, I think you are basing your calculations on a few assumptions which are likely to change over the next couple of budgets. As I can few it the assumptions you have are:
- State benefits will be fixed over next few years - this is not going to be fixed and will move downward both on monetary value and the enforcement (Jobseekers is for jobseekers and you wont be seeking a job)
- Your income is fixed from job - seek a pay rise or seek employment in another company maybe
- Benefits are stable - as anyone on benefits will tell you they get stopped often for whatever reason and need to be reassessed. This can mean weeks without benefits at times.
- Quality of life - Many people go mad without work, even with the pressure of a child to look after many people enjoy work as it gives them a social interaction away from family life which can be tough at times
0 -
Thank you for your input Chris. However, I would argue points 2 & 4 are irrelevant, and that assumption 1 doesn't represent a variable between employment & unemployment. Point 3 just seems to be one of those things, but is only a conditional in that it may never occur.OP, I think you are basing your calculations on a few assumptions which are likely to change over the next couple of budgets. As I can few it the assumptions you have are:- State benefits will be fixed over next few years - this is not going to be fixed and will move downward both on monetary value and the enforcement (Jobseekers is for jobseekers and you wont be seeking a job)
- Your income is fixed from job - seek a pay rise or seek employment in another company maybe
- Benefits are stable - as anyone on benefits will tell you they get stopped often for whatever reason and need to be reassessed. This can mean weeks without benefits at times.
- Quality of life - Many people go mad without work, even with the pressure of a child to look after many people enjoy work as it gives them a social interaction away from family life which can be tough at times
I say point 1 does not represent a variable as my income from employment is just likely to be reduced through increased taxation as welfare is to be reduced monetarily. As regards enforcement, it is surely not difficult to appear to be looking for work. For example, if I applied solely for CEO roles with fortune 500 companies I would be actively seeking work, but at little risk of ever finding any.
Point 2 I would deem irrelevant as I would be just as, if not better able, to seek alternative, better-paid employment in another company if my free time was increased through unemployment. Pay rises are certainly not a runner in my current organisation.
Point 4 - I have covered this in previous posts. People cannot be expected to work due solely to the fact that it offers a social outlet. The fourth "commandment" of economic theory is that people respond to incentives (generally meaning financial incentives). If I require a social outlet only, and paid employment can offer me no financial incentives to engage, then surely I would be better off joining a football team, or volunteering in any or every area that interests me, rather than only accepting what social outlets are offered to me by potential employers.0 -
Point 2 I would deem irrelevant as I would be just as, if not better able, to seek alternative, better-paid employment in another company if my free time was increased through unemployment. Pay rises are certainly not a runner in my current organisation.
If you voluntarily quit your job, would you be able to say anything constructive about why you left? This would be important as in my experience employers are always interested in reasons behind leaving and saying you left because you worked out that you're better off on benefits would not look good.
Also, most people wouid argue (myself included) that it's much harder to get a new job from a position of unemployment.
I think you are looking at this in the wrong way. You are looking at it based on numbers alone without any recognition of the other benefits of having a job bring. Have you thought about how you would fill your days if you were unemployed?0 -
A whole host of reasons could be offered for why I left. There is an unwritten rule in my industry that references from previous employers are neither positive nor negative no matter the circumstances of your leaving. At any rate, in the current economic climate, I left as I was let go due to decreasing workload as a result of challenging market conditions is a valid and fairly unquestionable reason for anyone being moved on from a job.If you voluntarily quit your job, would you be able to say anything constructive about why you left? This would be important as in my experience employers are always interested in reasons behind leaving and saying you left because you worked out that you're better off on benefits would not look good.
Also, most people wouid argue (myself included) that it's much harder to get a new job from a position of unemployment.
I think you are looking at this in the wrong way. You are looking at it based on numbers alone without any recognition of the other benefits of having a job bring. Have you thought about how you would fill your days if you were unemployed?
As regards how I would fill my days, I have a young child at home with whom I could spend more time. Or alternatively, as brushed upon in my previous post, I could take up hobbies or volunteering opportunities. You say I am looking at it from a purely numbers perspective, but work is a numbers game. If I offered you a job right now, but you would have to pay me 50 euro week to do it would you accept? What if I promised you the people you were very nice, would you accept it then? Or if there were various social events associated with working in my company, would you then agree to pay me 50 euro a week to work there?
I hope you answered no to my above scenarios. People work in order to gain money. It is a trade off of their time, labour & expertise in exchange for capital and/or profit sharing from the employer. Any employment that does not offer financial incentives to engage is effectively volunteer work and as mentioned previously, engaging in such volunteer schemes or taking part in sports are viable, cheap alternatives to the other benefits having a job brings that you mention.0 -
Advertisement
-
Thank you for your input Chris. However, I would argue points 2 & 4 are irrelevant, and that assumption 1 doesn't represent a variable between employment & unemployment. Point 3 just seems to be one of those things, but is only a conditional in that it may never occur.
Point 3 is not irrelevant. income from a job is stable, income from benefits can be stopped at times and due to the dependancy on this low fixed income it would be difficult to manage.I say point 1 does not represent a variable as my income from employment is just likely to be reduced through increased taxation as welfare is to be reduced monetarily. As regards enforcement, it is surely not difficult to appear to be looking for work. For example, if I applied solely for CEO roles with fortune 500 companies I would be actively seeking work, but at little risk of ever finding any.
Build in the liklihood into calculation then. Benefits will get cut more, Good place to start on testing your calculations. At least with work you have a choice to move down the line to a better job with increased pay.Point 2 I would deem irrelevant as I would be just as, if not better able, to seek alternative, better-paid employment in another company if my free time was increased through unemployment. Pay rises are certainly not a runner in my current organisation.
Easier to get a job when in a job. Employers ask more questions about a candidate who has the qualifications but not working. Why not? A good answer will help. Your answer would not. I went unemployed without state benefits to complete a masters degree, funded and supported by myself, thats a good reason.
Point 4 - I have covered this in previous posts. People cannot be expected to work due solely to the fact that it offers a social outlet. The fourth "commandment" of economic theory is that people respond to incentives (generally meaning financial incentives). If I require a social outlet only, and paid employment can offer me no financial incentives to engage, then surely I would be better off joining a football team, or volunteering in any or every area that interests me, rather than only accepting what social outlets are offered to me by potential employers.[/QUOTE]
Thats a personal thing for you to decide. As many have said it is what happens to people. I am in teams and other social outlets but if not working would go a bit mad I think. Again thats a personal thing so no problem there.
We also dont all work for financial incentive purely. I am driven by financial incentive in a way but would take on more responsibility for no money extra if it aided my long term careers. I am driven a lot by personal development and the benefit to my long term career.0 -
Amateur. Worst financial mistake you could ever make benefits wise. Never get married.
Knock up girlfriend asap. She'll get loan parents and a council house in a flash.
Move in on the QT as a cock lodger. After 10 years, get GF to buy house for max. discount with council loan. and sell/lease back to local authority.
^THIS * 1000
Getting married is very bad financial decision. And it's very difficult to undo.0 -
And having a kid isn't?Amateur. Worst financial mistake you could ever make benefits wise. Never get married.
Knock up girlfriend asap. She'll get loan parents and a council house in a flash.
Move in on the QT as a cock lodger. After 10 years, get GF to buy house for max. discount with council loan. and sell/lease back to local authority.
^THIS * 1000
Getting married is very bad financial decision. And it's very difficult to undo.0 -
someone asked about the tax benefits of marriage earlier - you can put the figures into http://www.hookhead.com/Tools/tax2012.jsp and work it out yourself (everyone's circumstances are different due to pension payments BIK etc).
All things being equal, on a salary of 40k I reckon you're about 4k a year better off (assuming the wife isn't working)
Single Person
-Tax Credit: 1650
-PAYE Credit: 1650
-Standard tax band limit: 32800
Married, one income, with children:
-Tax credit: 3300
-PAYE credit: 1650
-Home Carers Credit: 810
-Standard tax band limit: 418000 -
someone asked about the tax benefits of marriage earlier - you can put the figures into http://www.hookhead.com/Tools/tax2012.jsp and work it out yourself (everyone's circumstances are different due to pension payments BIK etc).
All things being equal, on a salary of 40k I reckon you're about 4k a year better off (assuming the wife isn't working)
Single Person
-Tax Credit: 1650
-PAYE Credit: 1650
-Standard tax band limit: 32800
Married, one income, with children:
-Tax credit: 3300
-PAYE credit: 1650
-Home Carers Credit: 810
-Standard tax band limit: 41800
Max relief available in a joint assessed case with one income + dependant children equals €1650 + €9000 at 21% (1890) + €810. Total €4350.0 -
Advertisement
Advertisement