Digital ID's for everyone

ohnonotgmail · 01-04-2020 9:32pm

Alena Tangy Someone wrote: »

Under 'good digital ID' headline. Desktop version, may not show on mobile.

If persistant (tracking?) birth-to-death digital ID can be for the greater good.

id is required in this country NOW to access essential services. I am asking where it says that his new id will be the ONLY acceptable form of ID.

4068ac1elhodqr · 01-04-2020 9:38pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

id is required in this country NOW to access essential services. I am asking where it says that his new id will be the ONLY acceptable form of ID.

This is targetted at the developing world ONLY (pre-2030 phase), places where they dip your finger in ink, to make sure you don't vote twice, places where all the kids have similar names, and don't have two stones to rub together. Where you can opt out of vaccinations by hiding up a tree.

This is also refrencing 'Digital ID', sure you can vote now using paper and/or simple photo cards in the west, this isn't digital, and is rejected as suitable in regards to any unique persistant birth-to-death form concepts of new digital ID, usually also backed by blockchain encryption and secondary biometric measurements.

EyesClosed · 01-04-2020 9:44pm

Alena Tangy Someone wrote: »

This is targetted at the developing world ONLY (pre-2030 phase), places where they dip your finger in ink, to make sure you don't vote twice, places where all the kids have similar names, and don't have two stones to rub together. Where you can opt out of vaccinations by hiding up a tree.

This is also refrencing 'Digital ID', sure you can vote now using paper and/or simple photo cards in the west, this isn't digital, and is rejected as suitable in regards to any unique persistant birth-to-death form concepts of new digital ID, usually also backed by blockchain encryption and secondary biometric measurements.

They don't opt out of vaccination because they would like to survive the diseases they are dying from.

ohnonotgmail · 01-04-2020 9:45pm

Alena Tangy Someone wrote: »

This is targetted at the developing world ONLY (pre-2030 phase), places where they dip your finger in ink, to make sure you don't vote twice, places where all the kids have similar names, and don't have two stones to rub together. Where you can opt out of vaccinations by hiding up a tree.

This is also refrencing 'Digital ID', sure you can vote now using paper and/or simple photo cards in the west, this isn't digital, and is rejected as suitable in regards to any unique persistant birth-to-death form concepts of new digital ID, usually also backed by blockchain encryption and secondary biometric measurements.

this is just a copy and paste of previous posts. answer the question that was asked.

4068ac1elhodqr · 01-04-2020 9:51pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

this is just a copy and paste of previous posts. answer the question that was asked.

Why would such a huge expensive programe to 'push' digital ID, accept some paper only based documents in the connected world of 2030, sounds a bit self-defeating don't you think.

Yes, can opt out, but this would likely be met with access retrictions.
Again this is a 'push' program, not a 'pleasem and ask nicely' program.

ohnonotgmail · 01-04-2020 9:53pm

Alena Tangy Someone wrote: »

Why would such a huge expensive programe to 'push' digital ID, accept some paper only based documents in the connected world of 2030, sounds a bit self-defeating don't you think.

Yes, can opt out, but this would likely be met with access retrictions.
Again this is a 'push' program, not a 'pleasem and ask nicely' program.

why would governments only accept id that they have no control over?

4068ac1elhodqr · 01-04-2020 10:08pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

why would governments only accept id that they have no control over?

? Eh, non comprendo.

Think you need a break, anyway have other things to do.

In the meantime feel free to have a google (below is 'page 1' of search), for id2020, showing the very many varied views on the global (push) model of this digital blockchain ID.

Sure has created some interest in regards to COVID19, and vaccinations in general (hence Billy Gates sudden rush from Miscrosoft).

There is no exact certainty as to what precisely will emerge from it (people here will ask for that, without time machines etc), but is one of the most interesting projects ever seen. Suspect it isn't the last we'll all hear about it.

ohnonotgmail · 01-04-2020 10:11pm

Kehlani Massive Magnum wrote: »

? Eh, non comprendo.

Think you need a break, anyway have other things to do.

In the meantime feel free to have a google (below is 'page 1' of search), for id2020, showing the very many varied views on the global (push) model of this digital blockchain ID.

Sure has created some interest in regards to COVID19, and vaccinations in general (hence Billy Gates sudden rush from Miscrosoft).

There is no exact certainty as to what precisely will emerge from it (people here will ask for that, without time machines etc), but is one of the most interesting projects ever seen. Suspect it isn't the last we'll all hear about it.

quite simple. Essential services are provided by governments. People need id to access those services. why would a government ONLY accept a form of ID (the digital id you keep referring to) when they have no control over that form of ID. they dont supply it. they dont own the technology.

Ted_YNWA · 01-04-2020 10:28pm

Be civil, Accumulator.

Valid question.

Is there Government involvement is the setup & control of this Digital ID.

Fleetwoodmac · 01-04-2020 11:00pm

https://www.cnet.com/news/snowden-warns-government-surveillance-amid-covid-19-could-be-long-lasting/

This is an interesting read and apologies if already posted. If genuine, then the concept of digital surveillance becomes very real indeed. As an aside, several threads on fb advocating the wearing of masks as a hindrance to said surveillance.

eleventh · 02-04-2020 11:16am

Kehlani Massive Magnum wrote:

I.e. An ID(digital) established at time of birth, that remains 'persistant' (not removable or deniable as a unique secure identifier),
at any time during a persons lifecycle, that remains in place, right up until time of death.

That's the end goal, but there will be hiccups along the way. Nothing can be truly permanent/persistant in the way they are framing it.
Hardware/software degrades with time. Even if hardware is designed not to, people will have allergic reactions etc requiring it to be removed/replaced.
Software will have updates - especially in the early stages (Imagine Gates/MS being involved. What would be the equivalent blue screen of death etc).

eleventh · 02-04-2020 11:23am

Kehlani Massive Magnum wrote:

By 2030 every single person on the planet, must also have a strong and digital method of unique ID, like it or not, that is the future.

Many will refuse it I think. A significant minority (some of which may accept at first then change their mind).

Lonesomerhodes · 02-04-2020 11:47am

Notice incredible push to go cashless these days?.

WHO says money could carry corona
Shops only taking contactless
Contactless pay amount going up
Ikea refusing cash etc etc

On the back of all this fear porn people will sign up digital ids or microchipping in a heartbeat.

Total control.

Every transaction monitored; everyones location known; every transaction taxed; much harder to buy things second hand; much harder to selk things secind hand; fines penalties removed automatically from peoples accounts without any contest but most importantly

Whats to stop the people running this con turning off ids or restricting them to only very very limited locations or items?.
If you are seen as trouble naughty boy they could easily just deactivate your id and no means of purchase whatsoever.

Could easily happen.

Fear has people afraid to leave their homes they will accept any draconian measure to get back to "normal".

Least with cash its universally accepted and just paper cant me made null and void so to speak.

EyesClosed · 02-04-2020 11:56am

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Notice incredible push to go cashless these days?.

WHO says money could carry corona
Shops only taking contactless
Contactless pay amount going up
Ikea refusing cash etc etc

On the back of all this fear porn people will sign up digital ids or microchipping in a heartbeat.

Total control.

Every transaction monitored; everyones location known; every transaction taxed; much harder to buy things second hand; much harder to selk things secind hand; fines penalties removed automatically from peoples accounts without any contest but most importantly

Whats to stop the people running this con turning off ids or restricting them to only very very limited locations or items?.
If you are seen as trouble naughty boy they could easily just deactivate your id and no means of purchase whatsoever.

Could easily happen.

Fear has people afraid to leave their homes they will accept any draconian measure to get back to "normal".

Least with cash its universally accepted and just paper cant me made null and void so to speak.

I don't undertand this worry. Your bank account is just numbers on a screen, the bank doesnt hold everyones cash. So unless you don't have a bank account and live in a cash only world, then this is already a problem for you.

Also how has it stopped people buying and selling second hand??? That's just nonsense, if anything online transactions have increased people buying and selling second hand.

Also cash doesnt actually mean anything anymore, it is all connected to the money on the screen you are afraid of, it has been like that YEARS now, and still the world hasnt turned into a military policed 1984 state you seem to want so badly.

Dohnjoe · 02-04-2020 11:58am

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Notice incredible push to go cashless these days?.

WHO says money could carry corona
Shops only taking contactless
Contactless pay amount going up
Ikea refusing cash etc etc

On the back of all this fear porn people will sign up digital ids or microchipping in a heartbeat.

Total control.

Every transaction monitored; everyones location known; every transaction taxed; much harder to buy things second hand; much harder to selk things secind hand; fines penalties removed automatically from peoples accounts without any contest but most importantly

Whats to stop the people running this con turning off ids or restricting them to only very very limited locations or items?.
If you are seen as trouble naughty boy they could easily just deactivate your id and no means of purchase whatsoever.

Could easily happen.

Fear has people afraid to leave their homes they will accept any draconian measure to get back to "normal".

Least with cash its universally accepted and just paper cant me made null and void so to speak.

Digital payments are typically easier and more convenient. You can buy online with the tap of a button or pay at the till in seconds with your card or phone. It's a natural progression, they reckon e.g. only 10% of all payments will be made with physical cash in the UK in just a few years.

And yes with the current pandemic, physical cash is not being accepted by certain shops for obvious reasons

Also, it's far easier to commit fraud, illicit activity, laundering, etc with physical cash than it is with digital cash (where there is some trace), which is why in most financial institutions it's a requirement that monitor and keep records of their transactions and vet their clients, if they fail to do so properly, and their clients conduct illegal activity, the bank itself can (and will) be fined and/or lose it's license

eleventh · 02-04-2020 1:01pm

Lonsomerhodes wrote:

Notice incredible push to go cashless these days?.
...
Shops only taking contactless
Contactless pay amount going up
Ikea refusing cash etc etc

I'd have no issue with this per se. The problem would be if cash stops being accepted altogether. As you say, deals between people such as second hand goods, cash is needed can be more convenient.
This option should stay and while large/multinationals etc may phase it out for their own reasons, it should still be allowed circulate and cash lodgements etc continue.

If not, we will see small business and communities destroyed (moreso than already).

Unfortunately I do see cashless as almost inevitable the way it's going. It's more about how long can we delay it (and hope the tide will turn).

crossmolinalad · 02-04-2020 1:06pm

eleventh wrote: »

I'd have no issue with this per se. The problem would be if cash stops being accepted altogether. As you say, deals between people such as second hand goods, cash is needed.
This option should stay and while large/multinationals etc may phase it out for their own reasons, it should still be allowed circulate and cash lodgements etc continue.

If not, we will see small business and communities destroyed (moreso than already).

Unfortunately I do see cashless as almost inevitable the way it's going. It's more about how long can we delay it (and hope the tide will turn).

No there is an app you can pay money between people
Seen it already in use in Holland called Tikkie
So no cash needed to pay others

eleventh · 02-04-2020 1:20pm

I edited the post to address that.
The point being that cash should remain as an option. Not everyone wants to deal electronically or not all the time.

Lord Fairlord · 02-04-2020 1:42pm

EyesClosed wrote: »

Also cash doesnt actually mean anything anymore, it is all connected to the money on the screen you are afraid of, it has been like that YEARS now, and still the world hasnt turned into a military policed 1984 state you seem to want so badly.

Eh, the government now claims to have the authority to decide whether someone can leave their home or not (which is invalid law ab initio). "But there is a virus out there" I can imagine many would reply. There is almost always a "good" reason given for dictatorship. I hear reports of people reporting on their neighbours during this Covid scare - scarily reminiscent in one way of what happened in East Germany.
We're somewhere between 1984 and A Brave New World as a world but most people don't even realise it or care.

Dohnjoe · 02-04-2020 2:11pm

Lord Fairlord wrote: »

Eh, the government now claims to have the authority to decide whether someone can leave their home or not (which is invalid law ab initio). "But there is a virus out there" I can imagine many would reply.

There is a highly contagious virus out there. That is why these measures have been undertaken. It has to be enforced because unfortunately people flout it.

I hear reports of people reporting on their neighbours during this Covid scare - scarily reminiscent in one way of what happened in East Germany.

Good. They should be reported on within reason. People are not meant to be having large social gatherings, because it is putting people's lives at risk.

As we've seen there are utter morons who will have large parties or gatherings during a pandemic when a specific lock-down is in place

Dohnjoe · 02-04-2020 2:13pm

eleventh wrote: »

I edited the post to address that.
The point being that cash should remain as an option. Not everyone wants to deal electronically or not all the time.

Physical cash is an option and will likely be kept as an option for a long time to come

That's completely removed from the fact there is a highly contagious pandemic right now and cash/coins are seen as a key spreader of the disease

I wash my hands after using any chip and pin, and have seen shops disinfecting them after use, but cash/coins are much tricker

eleventh · 02-04-2020 3:25pm

^ You are wanting to discuss current affairs.
My post is "completely removed", as you put it, from current affairs.
There is a current affairs thread and even a forum dedicated to corona where your thoughts on benefits of hand washing etc might be relevant.

Dohnjoe · 02-04-2020 3:45pm

eleventh wrote: »

^ You are wanting to discuss current affairs.
My post is "completely removed", as you put it, from current affairs.
There is a current affairs thread and even a forum dedicated to corona where your thoughts on benefits of hand washing etc might be relevant.

I am addressing your point directly. Physical cash is an option. It's just that there are some limitations at the moment for obvious reasons

Unless there's something happening here we aren't aware of?

4068ac1elhodqr · 02-04-2020 4:16pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Physical cash is an option and will likely be kept as an option for a long time to come

This is incorrect (within the EU).

You only have to look at Sweden (yes, the land where thousands choose to have RFID injected under their hands), many cafes refuse outright to accept cash. The simply don't provide this option.
More than half of their 1600 banks, refuse to accept cash deposits, or offer cash withdrawls. Cash is simply a not an option in many instances.

They are 2nd in the world only to Canada for cashless transactions, cash is down about 27% in the last 4/5yrs.

Like the crazy Swedes, the Aussies also like to run wayward social experiements. On such was that welfare recipients were paid using a card only, and could spend this as card only (no ATM withdrawls allowed).
They were also restricted on where the card could be used, it wouldn't work in any bookies nor in any of their bottle shops. Basically told what they can and can't spend their money on.

ohnonotgmail · 02-04-2020 4:18pm

Kehlani Massive Magnum wrote: »

This is incorrect (within the EU).

You only have to look at Sweden (yes, the land where thousands choose to have RFID injected under their hands), many cafes refuse outright to accept cash. The simply don't provide this option.
More than half of their 1600 banks, refuse to accept cash deposits, or offer cash withdrawls. Cash is simply a not an option in many instances.

They are 2nd in the world only to Canada for cashless transactions, cash is down about 27% in the last 4/5yrs.

Like the crazy Swedes, the Aussies also like to run wayward social experiements. On such was that welfare recipients were paid using a card only, and could spend this as card only (no ATM withdrawls allowed).
They were also restricted on where the card could be used, it wouldn't work in any bookies nor in any of their bottle shops. Basically told what they can and can't spend their money on.

so they same as what are called food stamps in the states.

Dohnjoe · 02-04-2020 4:32pm

Kehlani Massive Magnum wrote: »

This is incorrect (within the EU).

Nah, what I wrote isn't incorrect.

""Physical cash is an option and will likely be kept as an option for a long time to come"

Physical cash is an option, I'm not aware of any country which is digital only. If you know of any, let us know. Of course physical cash use and acceptance is decreasing, as I've mentioned. Have to be careful with my wording with these contrarian word lawyers around

As for it being kept as an option for a long time, that's what I've read. It's not like they have cut off dates yet.

4068ac1elhodqr · 02-04-2020 4:32pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

so the same as what are called food stamps in the states.

Somewhat, basically being told what or when you can spend money on. There is an element of freedom of choice with cash, with fully traced and restricted card-only funds you could end up in hot water easily enough.

4068ac1elhodqr · 02-04-2020 4:37pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Nah, what I wrote isn't incorrect.
""Physical cash is an option and will likely be kept as an option for a long time to come" Physical cash is an option

Nah, problem is it simply isn't an option, in many cases, in some EU states.

Half the banks in Sweden won't accept nor offer it, hence if you walk into the wrong bank (50:50), you have 'null options' in regards to cash.
Physical cash is NOT an option in this situation.

Or if you walk into one of the many cashless cafes in Stockholm, it is also not an option available to pay for goods.
Physical cash is NOT an option in this situation.

So you claim that is always an option e.g. in an EU state is: a plain lie.

You can however pay with a swipe of your right hand, where an RFID chip is implanted by thousands there. This is greatly encouraged.

ohnonotgmail · 02-04-2020 4:39pm

Kehlani Massive Magnum wrote: »

Somewhat, basically being told what or when you can spend money on. There is an element of freedom of choice with cash, with fully traced and restricted card-only funds you could end up in hot water easily enough.

with cash you can end up in even hotter water with mummy or daddy pissing their social welfare money up against a wall or putting it on a three legged donkey.

ohnonotgmail · 02-04-2020 4:40pm

Kehlani Massive Magnum wrote: »

Nah, problem is it simply isn't an option, in many cases, in some EU states.

Half the banks in Sweden won't accept nor offer it, hence if you walk into the wrong bank (50:50), you have 'null options' in regards to cash.
Physical cash is NOT an option in this situation.

Or if you walk into one of the many cashless cafes in Stockholm, it is also not an option available to pay for goods.
Physical cash is NOT an option in this situation.

So you claim that is always an option e.g. in an EU state is: a plain lie.

You can however pay with a swipe of your right hand, where an RFID chip is implanted by thousands there. This is greatly encouraged.

in what eu states is this not an option?

Digital ID's for everyone

Comments