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14-11-2019, 18:31   #31
Ipso
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I haven't kept up with some of this, I remember one of the ideas was that the UiNiall could have been descendants of people who arrived from Northern Britain (as the time frame matches people possibly fleeing after Germanic influxes) and back projected their origin stories to make them descendants of Niall. Is there truth to this or is it all up in the air?
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14-11-2019, 21:09   #32
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On the Ant & Dec program - whilst light, it's probably convinced a few thousand people to take an Ancestry DNA test.
Has to be a good thing, maybe more matches for some of us and at the very least will help the accuracy of the whole project.
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14-11-2019, 21:42   #33
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Originally Posted by dubhthach View Post
Men bearing the surnames Kernan and McGovern have a high 'enrichment' for been part of R-A5902 (eg. section of R1b men who carry a mutation called A5902).

A5902 is part of wider A259 which is linked to west of Ireland paternal lineages, particularly surnames linked to the historic Uí Briúin lineages.

In case of McGovern and Kernan they both form a sub-branch of wider Uí Briúin Bréifne (which also has O'Rourke, O'Reilly and Ford in it).

A259 is part of wider M222 haplogroup (via it's major sub-branch DF105/S660)

M222 > Z46375 > DF106 > DF104 > DF105/S660 (DF109) > A18726 > A259 > A260 > A5902

Dec in comparison is also M222, but his lineage falls under S588 specifically it's sub-branch FGC59192

M222 > Z46375 > DF106 > DF104 > DF105/S660 (DF109) > S588 > S7814 > A694 > FGC59190 > FGC59192

As result paternally Ant and Dec share a common male ancestor sometime before either A259 or S588 mutated. This common ancestor would have been DF105+/S660+

vast majority of all Irish M222+ are positive for DF105/S660. Basically it makes up about 80%+ of all M222+ men. It would appear it underwent rapid expansion/differentiation with multiple sub-branches appearing sometime in the period of 100-600AD.

M222 itself was theorized as been linked to the historic kindreds of the Dál Cuinn (Uí Néill and the three Connachta -- Uí Briúin, Uí Fiachrac and Uí nAillelo) back in 2006 in paper published out of TCD. This is the somewhat 'infamous' paper that linked the haplogroup with the quasi-historical Níall of the Nine Hostages (Níall Noígiallach).

In the program it was mentioned that Dec been A5902 could potentially be linked to individual known as Brión. In the saga tradition, Brión is the older half-brother of Níall and progenitor of the Uí Briúin of Connacht who ruled the province uninterrupted between the late 7th century and arrival of the Normans in the 13th century.



Of course Donnelly is surname linked to the Northern Uí Néill via been one of surnames of the Cenél nEoghain.

The mention of the Viking burial from Dublin is from a recent aDNA paper on Viking Europe. This individual was discovered in 2001 during the construction at Little Ship Street in Dublin (Dunnes offices). It would appear from his autosomnal results that he was very much a 'native', leaving aside the fact that he is the oldest known sample of M222+ (DF105/S660 in his case) yet published.
I`ve recently taken the ancestry.co DNA test and did find quite a few family matches,but I`d be interested to know if there is a test for the above DNA markers-this is because I`d like to know if my Donegal family are planter stock or Irish originally.
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15-11-2019, 21:58   #34
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Originally Posted by RobMc59 View Post
I`ve recently taken the ancestry.co DNA test and did find quite a few family matches,but I`d be interested to know if there is a test for the above DNA markers-this is because I`d like to know if my Donegal family are planter stock or Irish originally.
A test for these markers can be bought through FTDNA. You would need to buy the Big Y or SNP packs.
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18-11-2019, 11:50   #35
dubhthach
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Originally Posted by RobMc59 View Post
I`ve recently taken the ancestry.co DNA test and did find quite a few family matches,but I`d be interested to know if there is a test for the above DNA markers-this is because I`d like to know if my Donegal family are planter stock or Irish originally.
So AncestryDNA is an autosomal test, it only looks at the autosomes (eg. 44 non sex linked Chromosomes) as a result it will show you matches up to potentially 200 years ago across all your lines (eg. cousins via your maternal great-grandmother etc.)

They do not test for a panel of Y-Chromosome SNP's. Your best bet is to do a test with FamilyTreeDNA. Their entry level product is at sale at moment for $99 (you have to provide them a sample) with the current Black Friday sales:

https://www.familytreedna.com/products/y-dna#/compare

You can always upgrade at later date to more comprehensive test at a future sale (the Y-DNA tests are basically subsets of each other).

so for example in current sale they have following:

New Tests
Quote:
Test ------- Sale Price (Regular Price)
Y-37 ------- $99 ($169)
Y-111 -------- $199 ($359)
Big Y-700 ------- $399 ($649)
Upgrades
Quote:
Test ------- Sale Price (Regular Price)
Y-37 to Y-67 ------- $69 ($109)
Y-37 to Y-111 -------- $119 ($228)
Y-37 to Big Y-700 ------- $319 ($569)
Y-67 to Big Y-700 ------- $259 ($499)
Y-111 to Big Y-700 ------- $229 ($449)
Obviously the higher testing level the better the resoultion of your terminal Y-DNA haplogroup would be. However I do think the current price for Y-37 is a good starting point to dip your toes in. At a minimum you should be able to see some level of Y-Chromosome matching etc plus with the submitted sample can always be upgraded to higher resolution testing during future sales events.
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18-11-2019, 12:00   #36
dubhthach
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I haven't kept up with some of this, I remember one of the ideas was that the UiNiall could have been descendants of people who arrived from Northern Britain (as the time frame matches people possibly fleeing after Germanic influxes) and back projected their origin stories to make them descendants of Niall. Is there truth to this or is it all up in the air?
Well the Dál Cuinn mythical origins put them as descendants of Tuathal Techtmar who was born in exile after the supposed overthrown of his father of high king. His mother the 'daughter of King of Alba' (where Alba in this case means Britain not just Scotland) supposedly fled to Britain while pregnant with him. He would come back as a young man with army to reclaim his patrimony.

His grandson in the saga tradition been Conn of the Hundred battles whom the Dál Cuinn (and thus the Connachta) are named after.

The issue is really what's the origin of the Dál Cuinn, they basically take over the northern half of Ireland in generation before arrival of Christianity and go on (via specifically the Uí Néill segment) to dominate/monopolise the High Kingship until the rise of Brian Boru in late 10th century.

I think the historian John V. Kelleher said it best.

"The Uí Néill emerge into history like a school of cuttlefish from a large ink-cloud of their own manufacture; and clouds of ink continued to be manufactured by them or for them throughout their long career"

https://books.google.ie/books?id=1g5...lefish&f=false

The question thus arises are they perhaps intrusive into Northern half of Ireland during the Iron age, perhaps for example as result of Roman conquest of Brigantia in NW Britain by Agricola in the 70-80's AD. (leaving aside Tacitus remark that Agricola had given shelter to an exiled Irish king).

Tuathal is supposed to have lived in 1st century AD, with bould Conn in the early 2nd.
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18-11-2019, 16:06   #37
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Just saw this too late. Anyone know if its on again?
It's on YouTube 2 parts
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