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12-11-2019, 10:06   #16
pinkypinky
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Review from Adam Rutherford in the Guardian.
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12-11-2019, 10:28   #17
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I watched the first half of the programme of Sun eve then gave up on it. Very low brow. I don't watch much tv and never these two in anything they do but given the programme thought 'what the hell'. Curiosity got the better of me.

But... the start with the jingoistic, war drum beating "hero" thing set me on edge straight away and once they'd pulled in a "wrestler" from a billion dollar earning energy corporation family I thought 'this show really isn't for me!'

Last edited by mod9maple; 12-11-2019 at 10:40.
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13-11-2019, 00:19   #18
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The Guardian needed clarification on which was Ant and which was Dec but maybe they were joking. Ant & Dec clarified that themselves years ago, as you look at the pair Ant is always on the left and Dec is always on the right! They did this so they wouldn't get mixed up. Seemingly nobody told the Guardian.
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13-11-2019, 08:49   #19
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I think Adam Rutherford was taking the proverbial. His book is an excellent read.
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13-11-2019, 11:12   #20
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I'm rather like Mod9 above and share tose views. Saw the end of part I and watched a bit of p II - total rubbish IMO, a pure advert for Ancestry DNA testing, sponsored programming at its worst. I knew nothing about Ant/Dec and now know that they're an older version of Jedward. Was I alone in having difficulty understanding their accents/dialogue?
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13-11-2019, 19:11   #21
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They're no PJ & Duncan.
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13-11-2019, 20:18   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pedroeibar1 View Post
I knew nothing about Ant/Dec and now know that they're an older version of Jedward. Was I alone in having difficulty understanding their accents/dialogue?
Whatever faults we may perceive in others and take issue with surely the accents they have as a result of where they were born and raised shouldn't be among them?
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13-11-2019, 20:54   #23
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Yes, let's keep it to ridiculing the science and not the people please.
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14-11-2019, 00:19   #24
pedroeibar1
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Whatever faults we may perceive in others and take issue with surely the accents they have as a result of where they were born and raised shouldn't be among them?
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Yes, let's keep it to ridiculing the science and not the people please.
The above are very bizarre inferences to take from my remarks on the programme.

Broadcasting is about communication – be it dissemination of knowledge, sharing humour, providing entertainment or a mix of all three. The ‘Ant & Dec’s DNA’ title of this thread suggests that the programme is open to critique on the topics it set out to achieve, namely the promotion of a basic understanding of DNA, some ‘back story’ of Ant/Dec’s own DNA and, given their apparent celebrity, some entertainment.

What bits I saw of the programme failed miserably except on the ‘oh- ah‘ entertainment factor for those who are impressed by big houses and helicopters. It pandered completely to a lightweight and overly superficial view of DNA and was an unapologetic promotion of autosomal DNA testing with Ancestry. Connecting both participants to ‘Irish royalty’ was the final straw. As Ancestry paid for the programme, international flights, visits, and no doubt a big fee to the two participants, they are quite entitled to do this but the programme should have carried a more appropriate ‘health warning’ from the broadcaster.

Several dialogue exchanges during the programme went over my head so I asked if others found the regional accents difficult. That is IMO quite a reasonable question and not ‘ridicule’. I have worked overseas for years, have a reasonable ‘ear’, can get by and am still amused by the need of the French to sub-title Canadian-French films in French. However, when watching a British ‘national’ broadcaster it is neither normal nor expected to find rapid and staccato delivery of incomprehensible regional accented idiom. I would expect a basic and coherent standard of delivery, not patois, to communicate with the audience. That is the fault of the producers, not the participants
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14-11-2019, 00:27   #25
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Apologies pedro - I may have read something into your comment that wasn't there.
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14-11-2019, 11:31   #26
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Fair enough. I had no problem with their accents myself but then I used to watch them in Byker Grove! It was pretty light-hearted fare. The first episode was much better than the second.
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14-11-2019, 13:55   #27
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I need more info on the McGovern clan stuff now - this is far back and there's too much "probably" in the mix for my liking.
Men bearing the surnames Kernan and McGovern have a high 'enrichment' for been part of R-A5902 (eg. section of R1b men who carry a mutation called A5902).

A5902 is part of wider A259 which is linked to west of Ireland paternal lineages, particularly surnames linked to the historic Uí Briúin lineages.

In case of McGovern and Kernan they both form a sub-branch of wider Uí Briúin Bréifne (which also has O'Rourke, O'Reilly and Ford in it).

A259 is part of wider M222 haplogroup (via it's major sub-branch DF105/S660)

M222 > Z46375 > DF106 > DF104 > DF105/S660 (DF109) > A18726 > A259 > A260 > A5902

Dec in comparison is also M222, but his lineage falls under S588 specifically it's sub-branch FGC59192

M222 > Z46375 > DF106 > DF104 > DF105/S660 (DF109) > S588 > S7814 > A694 > FGC59190 > FGC59192

As result paternally Ant and Dec share a common male ancestor sometime before either A259 or S588 mutated. This common ancestor would have been DF105+/S660+

vast majority of all Irish M222+ are positive for DF105/S660. Basically it makes up about 80%+ of all M222+ men. It would appear it underwent rapid expansion/differentiation with multiple sub-branches appearing sometime in the period of 100-600AD.

M222 itself was theorized as been linked to the historic kindreds of the Dál Cuinn (Uí Néill and the three Connachta -- Uí Briúin, Uí Fiachrac and Uí nAillelo) back in 2006 in paper published out of TCD. This is the somewhat 'infamous' paper that linked the haplogroup with the quasi-historical Níall of the Nine Hostages (Níall Noígiallach).

In the program it was mentioned that Dec been A5902 could potentially be linked to individual known as Brión. In the saga tradition, Brión is the older half-brother of Níall and progenitor of the Uí Briúin of Connacht who ruled the province uninterrupted between the late 7th century and arrival of the Normans in the 13th century.



Of course Donnelly is surname linked to the Northern Uí Néill via been one of surnames of the Cenél nEoghain.

The mention of the Viking burial from Dublin is from a recent aDNA paper on Viking Europe. This individual was discovered in 2001 during the construction at Little Ship Street in Dublin (Dunnes offices). It would appear from his autosomnal results that he was very much a 'native', leaving aside the fact that he is the oldest known sample of M222+ (DF105/S660 in his case) yet published.

Last edited by dubhthach; 14-11-2019 at 14:01.
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14-11-2019, 14:29   #28
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Wow! Thanks. I remember that infamous paper.
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14-11-2019, 15:53   #29
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Wow! Thanks. I remember that infamous paper.
Well it's not so much that paper is infamous, it's more that commercial companies started saying 'If you are M222+ or if your Y-STR's match specific pattern then you are a descendant of Niall of Nine Hostages'

Here is the paper itself:

A Y-Chromosome Signature of Hegemony in Gaelic Ireland
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1380239/



Now Wilson and Moffat were involved in a testing company which did autosomal testing (akin to AncestryDNA) but which in case of male testers did test a large panel of Y-DNA SNP's. Quite importantly they tested a large number of M222 sub-branches. As this was before the arrival of BigY test this allowed for much need sub-division into what had been up to then a very monolithic haplogroup.

Now they did publish a very interesting map showing what percentage of their testers in specific regions were M222+, major caveat this was based purely on testers of one company.



Note the major difference between Munster and Connacht. It's interesting how it seem to match what the Trinity paper was showing. That and when you look at other studies such as the Busby study on R1b-M269 as published by the Royal Society several years ago which also put M222 at it's lowest in Munster but highest in Connacht and Ulster.

Of course what we should remember is that our modern concept of Leinster isn't the same as Leinster in the early medieval period.

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14-11-2019, 16:00   #30
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Catherine Swift and Bart Jaski both wrote essays on this paper in a collection of essays (Princes, prelates and poets in medieval Ireland: essays in honour of Katharine Simms)published in 2013 looking at original paper through lenses of Historians. Katharine Simms was one of co-authors on the TCD paper and her book "From Kings to Warlords: The Changing Political Structure of Gaelic Ireland in the Later Middle Ages" is worth reading (it basically was extended book version of her PhD)



Anyways here are the two essays

Interlaced scholarship: genealogies and genetics in twenty-first-century Ireland
https://www.academia.edu/3363365/Int...entury_Ireland

Medieval Irish genealogies and genetics
https://www.academia.edu/2563825/Med...blin_2013_3-17
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