[pinkypinky]

Please keep the rants to a minimum!

[DamoRed]

Originally Posted by Jellybaby1

Regarding "Mick Leonard to Anne McNamara Barns?", any chance 'Barns' should actually read 'Banns'?

Eureka!

'Banns dispensed on account of their going to America that day' makes perfect sense.

I was looking at it as being part of a double barrel name, being a capital letter. Barnes/Barns, however is a much more Anglo name than Irish, so I did wonder.

Incidentally, banns only works as a plural. Bann is not a word, as only yesterday, while playing Scrabble, I placed bann as a word and was quite shocked when it was rejected when I tried to play it.

[DamoRed]

While looking for one death cert, I found another entry where the cause of death certainly raises curiosity to the highest level!

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy....34/4784312.pdf

In the 3rd entry, that of 27 year old Mary Elizabeth McMorrough, the cause of death, as far as I can read it, states: 'By having discharged into her head the contents of a loaded revolver - certified inquest'

Not sure if I'm reading the rank or profession correctly - it appears to be 'wife of a salesmaster clerk'.

Informant: Information received from ??? ??? coroner for the County of Dublin

Being shot accidentally would most likely involve only one shot, but it wouldn't appear to be accidental if it's contents of a loaded revolver. Does that imply it was more than one shot and the gun was fully loaded?

I put the name into a Google search, just in case there may have been some historical news article about it, but it didn't return anything. Does anyone know how common gun ownership was in Ireland in the late 19th Century? Had she been wife of a soldier, that may account for the mention of a revolver, but otherwise, nothing.

[pinkypinky]

The bit you're missing is the coroner's name F something Esq.

Definitely worth checking newspapers on this one, An inquest would have been reported.

[Peregrinus]

It could have been loaded with only the one bullet, so one shot would have represented "the contents" of the revolver.

Leaving aside murder or manslaughter, which certainly would make the papers, the possibilities are suicide or accident. This could be a euphemism for suicide, or it could be than in the particular circumstances they couldn't be sure whether it was suicide or accident.

Revolvers were certainly more readily available, and more common, in 1886 than today. Stricter gun control laws are a twentieth-century thing.

[shanew]

Originally Posted by DamoRed

.....Informant: Information received from ??? ??? coroner for the County of Dublin
..

possibly Frans. J. Davys, M.D. county coroner, res. in Swords
(Thom's 1885)

[DamoRed]

There is an F at the start and a Y at the end, so that certainly clears that one up. Thank you.

[shanew]

Freemans Journal, Friday, 3rd September 1886, page 5

"Sad Suicide of a young married woman" - DamoRed, I will pm you the details

[DamoRed]

Thank you, ShaneW. Very sad indeed. Especially for her 13 year old sister-in-law to hear it happen and then to see her having got the assistance of a neighbour.

Those who wish to find that article may do so in the knowledge they're not impinging on my privacy. This woman was not related to me, and I found the record of her death purely by chance, while searching another relative (who turned out not to be related after all)

[pedroeibar1]

Originally Posted by DamoRed

....... the cause of death, as far as I can read it, states: 'By having discharged into her head the contents of a loaded revolver - certified inquest'.....Being shot accidentally would most likely involve only one shot, but it wouldn't appear to be accidental if it's contents of a loaded revolver. Does that imply it was more than one shot and the gun was fully loaded?

One shot into the head – if it did not kill outright – would incapacitate the shooter so severely that firing another would be impossible.

Like most medical / bureaucratic comment the language of officialdom often is archaic. When the hammer is pulled back after firing a shot the next cylinder containing its cartridge revolves 60 degrees into line with the barrel and is ready to fire. That is the reason why most revolvers have six cylinders (6 x 60 = 360 degrees). The ‘contents’ in this case would refer to a single bullet and it is a term dating to muzzle-loading firearms, a system that predates the event. The firearm (musket or pistol) was held upright and the contents loaded through the muzzle – powder, wad and ball.

Aside from sparing any family feelings, coroners often strove to an ‘open verdict’ or ‘accidental death while cleaning a firearm’ because – generally - death by suicide meant that any life insurance company would not pay out. (In modern times there is a two-year exclusion clause i.e. no cover if death by suicide occurs within 2 years of policy inception.)

[tabbey]

Funny / Unusual Records.

Many of these are to be found in RC parish records which I perused extensively in the NLI before they went online.
I often felt reluctant to post these because they reveal the attitudes of priests who never dreamt that centuries later the people of the world would read them in their homes.
But here goes, a few from the parish of Moycarkey & Borris (in diocese of Cashel & Emly)

1850 - November 30th (Marriage) - Michl (or Nichs / Richd) Moor and Margt Fitzpatrick were married by Revd Robt Grace in presence of Michl (or Richd) B... and Judi Fitzpatrick.
Said Moor the most infamous blackguard that ever disgraced a parish.
_________________________________
And a couple from 1836:

1836 April 29th (baptism) Winifred? A foundling.
Sponsor: Brigit Mullally.
Said foundling was exposed at Mullally's house at Leigh and presented for baptism by his daughter Brigit, a person of very immoral character.
___________________________________

1836 Nov/Dec (month unclear) 18th, (very difficult to read, at bottom of page)
Patk, illegit. of .... Maunder? and Cath Fox (a kept woman)
Sponsor: Hanna Brennan of Freshford, Co K(ilkenny) + ... ...
NB (If?) Another man or woman could be induced to stand for the bastard ... Fox? ...

[Jellybaby1]

Thanks for those Tabbey. Crikey! There must be tons more we haven't come across as yet.

[DamoRed]

This is not from any search I've done, but something I've just seen on Twitter which must be shared...



https://twitter.com/mrfeelswildride/...10376454729730


Where to start! '...explain the relationships' it says. Good luck with that!

[Jellybaby1]

I have come across similar on Ancestry. A lot of authors are not great at building trees.

[shar01]

Originally Posted by Jellybaby1

I have come across similar on Ancestry. A lot of authors are not great at building trees.

Do not get me started!

I wish I had taken note of the Tree but one poor divil gave birth three times in one year on two different continents.