Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

Creating Energy / Fuel

Options
  • 17-07-2010 2:48pm
    #1
    Slideshowbob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,460 ✭✭✭


    OK I am no expert but regarding creation of fossil fuels over millions of years:

    Sun shone on earth, chemical reaction with earths substances and atmosphere - created living things like trees and people etc - when they die they form fossil fuels.

    To summarise:

    Sun + earthly chemicals + atmoshere + time = fossil fuels

    So can this interaction be simplified by science or speeded up or the waste diminished?

    Is that what the energy talk about hydrogen is?

    Thanks


Comments

  • Options
    #2
    robtri
    Registered Users Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭robtri


    Slideshowbob wrote: »
    OK I am no expert but regarding creation of fossil fuels over millions of years:

    Sun shone on earth, chemical reaction with earths substances and atmosphere - created living things like trees and people etc - when they die they form fossil fuels.

    To summarise:

    Sun + earthly chemicals + atmoshere + time = fossil fuels

    So can this interaction be simplified by science or speeded up or the waste diminished?

    Is that what the energy talk about hydrogen is?

    Thanks

    Keeping it that simple, sureley easier to take earthy chemicals, atmosphere and time out of the equation

    Sun = Energy


    Hydrogen energy is energy released as it combines with oxygen, the sun is not involved in the energy production.


  • Options
    #3
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,695 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    robtri wrote: »
    Hydrogen energy is energy released as it combines with oxygen, the sun is not involved in the energy production.
    Hydrogen is an energy store.
    If you want to use hydrogen you have to make it first, from natural gas, or coal gassification or electrolysis or whatever. This uses energy. So there is no nett energy released when you use hydrogen.


  • Options
    #4
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,695 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Slideshowbob wrote: »
    OK I am no expert but regarding creation of fossil fuels over millions of years:

    Sun shone on earth, chemical reaction with earths substances and atmosphere - created living things like trees and people etc - when they die they form fossil fuels.

    To summarise:

    Sun + earthly chemicals + atmoshere + time = fossil fuels

    So can this interaction be simplified by science or speeded up or the waste diminished?

    Is that what the energy talk about hydrogen is?

    Thanks
    You just wire a Solar panel into an electrolysis cell to produce hydrogen from water. You can use a fuel cell to convert the hydrogen back into water releasing electricity.

    Fuel cells use expensive materials like platinum (hint gold is way cheaper)
    The efficiency is so low that fuel cells are usually used where light weight is valued like in spacecraft (a of anything Kg in orbit costs more than a Kg of gold down here) cba looking up stats but maybe 50% effeciency on the conversion. If you burn the hydrogen in an internal combustion engine the efficiency drops to 25%

    if you want to store hydrogen plan on loosing 1% of it a day
    if you store as a low pressure gas then you will need massive gasometers
    if you want to store it as a high pressure gas then you will loose 10% of the energy it contains compressing it
    if you want to store it as a liquid then you will loose even more of the energy it contains


    if you hook up a solar panel to a water pump and use it to move water to a higher place you can recover 85-95% of the energy , subject to evaporation (in Ireland :rolleyes:) you can store that energy for as long as you want, AFAIK water is cheaper than gold

    BTW: it's far cheaper to make hydrogen using fossil fuel than with renewables so for the foreseable future Hydrogen = fossil fuel unless it's exported from Norway using spare hydroelectricity


    If you have a lot of Hydrogen you are probably better off converting it to Methane or Methanol if you want a compact, portable and storable fuel


Advertisement