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M50 - apalling gridlock

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12467…20

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    #92
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    metricspaces wrote: »
    Dublin by design will not be a county where the majority of drivers can move to public transport any time soon. So we need to live in reality to come up with any solutions that will have any short to medium term impact..

    So a massive investment in cycling ? It can be achieved in the short term and very cost effectively


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    #93
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    I need my car so I can drive to the gym to get fit . If only there was a way to combining my commute and getting fit ...

    Much too far to cycle for most people in the office.

    Im talking commutes from Naas/Blanchardstown/Artane/Bray to Dun Laoghaire. A couple of people do cycle in from Lucan/Tallaght. Not for the faint hearted I am told.

    I used to cycle to my last job - about a 6k journey - I hated every minute of it and was terrified on the retro fitted cycle lanes on narrow roads. I certainly wouldnt do it for my current commute (about a 20k journey).

    Plus cycling is only one aspect of staying fit - its going to do shag all for a weight lifting program.


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    #94
    tomplate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 63 ✭✭tomplate


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    We can and should be encouraging and we can and have been since the foundation of the IDA if not the state. However these companies will go where they thing matches their needs most.

    That's the problem we've only been encouraging them as you say

    You have to use a carrot and stick approach to the problem


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    #95
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    Macy0161 wrote: »
    The only thing I see potentially an issue with any of that on a bike is bike security parking at the gym, work or shopping centre (which is something that could be addressed).

    A bike with pannier rack and bags, none of that carrying is an issue in my experience. Bike security is my only concern.

    Maybe if you enjoy cycling. I dont. I hate it.

    Plus most of my colleagues live too far away for cycling to work to be feasible.


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    #96
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,835 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    metricspaces wrote: »
    It's one solution, not the only solution.

    Dublin by design will not be a county where the majority of drivers can move to public transport any time soon. So we need to live in reality to come up with any solutions that will have any short to medium term impact.
    Why not?
    metricspaces wrote: »
    Office hub buildings. Working from home. Staggering starting times for schools and work places. Reducing tolls at say 5am and gradually increasing fee to say 9am. These are things which will have an immediate effect.
    It's all been looked at before but the reality is that loads of people want to travel the city at the same time and want everyone else to change.
    We've discussed staggered times for schools and offices before and you cant change them significantly that there would be a noticable change. Increasing tolls will just encourage people to drive throguh the city and suburbs making those places even worse. Doubtful that it will improve the M50 a great deal though!


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    #97
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    ....... wrote: »
    Much too far to cycle for most people in the office.

    Im talking commutes from Blanchardstown/Artane/Bray to Dun Laoghaire. A couple of people do cycle in from Lucan/Tallaght. Not for the faint hearted I am told.
    Bray to Dun Laoghair : Dart
    Lucan/Tallaght: Luas
    ....... wrote: »
    I used to cycle to my last job - about a 6k journey - I hated every minute of it and was terrified on the retro fitted cycle lanes on narrow roads. I certainly wouldnt do it for my current commute (about a 20k journey).

    Plus cycling is only one aspect of staying fit - its going to do shag all for a weight lifting program.

    Anything inside the M50 is less than a 35 minute cycle to OCS. Fund e bikes you could do your 20K in less than an hour.


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    #98
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 13,002 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    This isn't a solution but people that drive could leave for work 15 to 20 minutes earlier than they usually do.

    A lot of collisions and aggressiveness on the roads is down to people being late and stressed out. Leaving that bit early will help to ease that stress.


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    #99
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    tomplate wrote: »
    That's the problem we've only been encouraging them as you say

    You have to use a carrot and stick approach to the problem

    Google and the likes will tell you where to stick your stick


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    #100
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    I saw electric scooters being advertised earlier, they need to allow them. One thing that I find total idiocy, they need large parks and rides just outside the M50, for heavy rail and bus interchanges, I live in the west of the city, I would contemplate ditching car if practical when going down the country, but I am sure as hell not going to go back into the city centre on our crap transport, to go out the same direction later, its totally impractical...


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    #101
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    ....... wrote: »
    Everyone in my workplace who drives to work also goes elsewhere in the working day in their car, be it the gym in the morning before work, shopping at lunchtime, or something afterwards before they go home.

    Maybe its true in your workplace, but it isn't true of anywhere I've ever worked.

    Sure, sometimes people have something to carry that makes the car useful, but most of the time it's just them.

    Or they have stuff in the car because they have the car anyway so it is convenient to carry the extra stuff - but if they weren't going to be in the car they'd arrange things so they didn't need to carry so much stuff. (Using a locker in the gym or at work, doing a smaller shop on the way home, etc)


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    #102
    nc6000
    Registered Users Posts: 3,220 ✭✭✭nc6000


    CatInABox wrote:
    Case in point is the rumbling from Noel Rock about making the Santry one way. A minor 5 minute inconvenience to a couple of hundred people, while massively benefiting thousands on a daily basis.

    How is this supposed to work? I'm assuming it would be one way through Santry heading into the city but then how would people get out of the city and back home?


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    #103
    tomplate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 63 ✭✭tomplate


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Google and the likes will tell you where to stick your stick

    Depends

    Apple and the like benefit enough to relocate as it is


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    #104
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,517 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    We can and should be encouraging and we can and have been since the foundation of the IDA if not the state. However these companies will go where they thing matches their needs most.

    I don't think so. I think we have been paying lip service to trying to encourage companies to locate country wide outside of manufacturing.

    The decision to locate the children's hospital at James's is just one example as opposed to even just outside the M50 where it seems the motivation is that Dublin is usually the preferred choice as a starting point.

    The development of public transport within Dublin (which is needed) has facilitated it in growing as it has done over the last 20 years. But, if similar attention was put in to growing a transport network outside of Dublin and crucially, in parallel with other services then I think we would be in a better and stronger place as a country.

    And I'm definitely not talking about everyone in every location having a bus/rail within 100M of their door.


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    #105
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,835 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    nc6000 wrote: »
    How is this supposed to work? I'm assuming it would be one way through Santry heading into the city but then how would people get out of the city and back home?
    Swords to city centre
    Bus lanes are proposed in both directions on Swords Road in Santry, from Shanrath Road to Omni Park shopping centre. This would make the street one-way for general traffic, with inbound vehicles routed via Coolock Lane and Santry Bypass. A new slip road would be incorporated to link the southbound Santry Bypass to Shantalla Road.
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/dublin-bus-upgrade-plan-what-you-need-to-know-1.3527158


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    #106
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,517 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Nermal wrote: »
    We've been encouraging them to do so for decades. They don't want to, they want to be in cities. It's time to stop wasting Dublin's money on Portarlington and Portlaoise and spend it on Dublin infrastructure.

    We need to stop thinking of Ireland as a resource solely to fill Dublin's needs.

    Dublin is and should be our capital but it is not City first and Country second.


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    #107
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Bray to Dun Laoghair : Dart
    Lucan/Tallaght: Luas


    Anything inside the M50 is less than a 35 minute cycle to OCS. Fund e bikes you could do your 20K in less than an hour.

    Again, for the people coming in from Bray, they go to other places - not just home to work - or they live miles from the DART station, so the DART isnt feasible for them.

    The Tallaght Luas goes nowhere near my job.

    I dunno what OCS is.


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    #108
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    Tell me how wrote: »
    The decision to locate the children's hospital at James's is just one example as opposed to even just outside the M50 where it seems the motivation is that Dublin is usually the preferred choice as a starting point.

    :rolleyes:
    St James's is extremely accessible by public transport for anyone in the country - its on the LUAS red line, which connects it to the two major train stations and Busaras.

    Put it outside the M50 and everyone would have to drive there.


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    #109
    QueenMTBee
    Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭QueenMTBee


    ....... wrote: »
    Everyone in my workplace who drives to work also goes elsewhere in the working day in their car, be it the gym in the morning before work, shopping at lunchtime, or something afterwards before they go home.
    Not one of them, including me, would switch to public transport because it simply wouldnt be feasible to tote a gym bag plus laptop plus lunch plus grocery shopping etc on public transport to and from work/gym and shops daily.

    I do this every day. I have a 50 minute train journey plus a 10 minute walk each end. I have a set of work clothes, at least one set of gym clothes (often a second set), my breakfast and lunch and snacks, my makeup bag, kindle/laptop. Sometimes even another change of clothes if I'm going out for dinner/drinks after work. Then anything I buy in the shops. It takes some planning but it's very do-able when you have no other option. I'm lucky in that my office has showers, a towel service and a drying room.


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    #110
    StreetLight
    Registered Users Posts: 1,388 ✭✭✭StreetLight


    ....... wrote: »
    I dunno what OCS is.

    O'Connell Street.


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    #111
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Tell me how wrote: »
    We need to stop thinking of Ireland as a resource solely to fill Dublin's needs.

    Dublin is and should be our capital but it is not City first and Country second.

    Ireland has several cities you know?


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    #112
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    ....... wrote: »
    Again, for the people coming in from Bray, they go to other places - not just home to work - or they live miles from the DART station, so the DART isnt feasible for them.

    The Tallaght Luas goes nowhere near my job.

    I dunno what OCS is.

    I'm sorry if this is unfair but you seem like the type who if they had a Metro on their doorstep ,to the gym , the school and work you'd find some other excuse to drive.


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    #113
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,517 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    RayCun wrote: »
    :rolleyes:
    St James's is extremely accessible by public transport for anyone in the country - its on the LUAS Green line, which connects it to the two major train stations and Busaras.

    Put it outside the M50 and everyone would have to drive there.

    Don;t you mean the Red Line?
    Try taking a sick child to hospital on public transport.

    I'm not talking about it being in Athlone. Some of the alternative sites suggested at the time could have been served with public transport for workers and visitors quite easily

    There was wide-ranging criticism of the decision to locate it at James. But that decision has been made. I'm not trying to re-ignite that debate.


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    #114
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,517 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Ireland has several cities you know?

    I think you know I was implying it shouldn't just be Capital City first.


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    #115
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    Del2005 wrote: »
    The carbon tax is to increase taxes and that's all. Where they spend the money makes no difference, like motor tax.

    Also if people stop driving ICE for EV the congestion on the roads will be the same, your lungs will be better but that's about it.

    You are grossly understating the value of clean air.
    gflood wrote: »
    Suggested improvements :
    • Car pool lanes.
    • Widen motorways.
    • Fix planning so it doesn't take 20 years to build a road.
    • I get a rebate on my fuel due to poor infrastructure.
    • Massive tax incentives/cheap ticket prices for public transport especially at peak times, not how it is now where off-peak is cheaper.
    • if an incident happens on the road its closed off so no reason for rubberneckers to hold everyone up. Seriously ... is changing a tyre that interesting?


    Personally, I dont have a choice but to use my car especially in Winter. Its too far to train and multiple of Luas, buses. Its doable but it would be very long mornings and evenings.

    Your ideas are like wild stabs, sometimes you are hitting the target but I doubt you know why.


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    #116
    tomplate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 63 ✭✭tomplate


    Tell me how wrote: »
    Don;t you mean the Red Line?
    Try taking a sick child to hospital on public transport.

    I'm not talking about it being in Athlone. Some of the alternative sites suggested at the time could have been served with public transport for workers and visitors quite easily

    There was wide-ranging criticism of the decision to locate it at James. But that decision has been made. I'm not trying to re-ignite that debate.

    I thought the decision was to do with transfer of patients and experts from one hospital to another


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    #117
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    Tell me how wrote: »
    Don;t you mean the Red Line?
    Try taking a sick child to hospital on public transport.

    I do mean the red line, yes.

    Many (most?) of the people going to a hospital are not sick, or are not the kind of sick where you avoid public transport. There are all the people who work there, there are all the people visiting, and there are patients who are perfectly capable of walking (eg, my son was in for dental work). Plus in any hospital there are patients for whom accessible public transport is a requirement because they don't or can't drive.

    But there's nothing to stop people driving a sick child to James's, if that's what they need.


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    #118
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Tell me how wrote: »
    I think you know I was implying it shouldn't just be Capital City first.

    I didn't often these debates are seen through the lens of Dublin v the rest of Ireland


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    #119
    metricspaces
    Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭metricspaces


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    Why not?

    Why do you think public transport will change sufficiently in the short to medium term compared to previous 5, 10, 15 years such that it will allow people leave their cars at home?

    Public finances would suggest it will not...

    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    It's all been looked at before but the reality is that loads of people want to travel the city at the same time and want everyone else to change.

    Looked at is not trying or doing. My point stands, that they are solutions that will have immediate impact in short to medium term whereas public transport is not.

    What are the statistics for destination of traffic on the M50. Certainly all traffic is not going into the city. Is it even 50%? What is "loads of people"?


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    #120
    Tchaikovsky
    Registered Users Posts: 2,185 ✭✭✭Tchaikovsky


    There needs to be at least some education on how to drive on a motorway; the standard is appalling and is reflected in the number of collisions/incidents that compound the traffic build-ups.

    Even notices on those LED boards saying 'Drive in the left lane, overtake in the middle, there's no such thing as a BMW lane' would be a start.


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    #121
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,148 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    RayCun wrote: »
    :rolleyes:
    St James's is extremely accessible by public transport for anyone in the country - its on the LUAS red line, which connects it to the two major train stations and Busaras.

    Put it outside the M50 and everyone would have to drive there.

    It's a hospital though, it's better suited to being on the periphery of the M50 rather than in the city.


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